My Bishop took my temple recommend away unfairly. How can I contest his decision?

[JayKi]

6 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I don't think anyone said "ditch your friend".  I'm saying the relationship you have with your friend in its current state is very inappropriate.  So here's the deal, as blunt as I can put it.  I have no idea why your temple recommend was pulled.  Maybe it was legitimate, maybe it wasn't.  However, based on what you've said and displayed here you appear extremely prideful and are having an inappropriate relationship with a married woman.  

 

Okay so I understand. You never hang out with a female friend? 

 

Also, I am not proud it is only because I defended myself and my friendship you think this. I have grievance that I lose my recommend it not make me proud. 

 

 

[Grunt]

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Okay so I understand. You never hang out with a female friend? 

 

Also, I am not proud it is only because I defended myself and my friendship you think this. I have grievance that I lose my recommend it not make me proud. 

 

 

No.   I never hang out with a married female friend privately who's spouse doesn't approve of the relationship.  Ever.  In fact, out of respect for MY wife, I have never hung out privately with a female friend who wasn't a friend of hers.

I don't know why you can't understand you are just wrong.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Grunt

[mgridle]

28 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I did not reject but I was not convinced that I should ditch my friend. I been accused of ruining her marriage, having an affair, being selfish, being proud and not honouring my priesthood. Is a lot of judgement for no reason. It upset me but actually no one thinks the text I sent was bad or missing church a little bit was bad enough to lose my recommend. So really I see that everyone agree with me so it helped me to realise I have a good case with the Stake President. 

No you ARE ruining her marriage.  The fact that the husband is upset at your relationship with HIS wife means you are ruining the marriage.  That is a fact.

Man up and face the fact that your actions with this other man's wife is causing stress, strain, and problems in HER marriage. If you actually truly and completely valued your friend, you would understand that her relationship with her husband (i.e. her marriage) is vastly more important than any other relationship you think is important with her.

You can either

a) figure out how to develop a relationship with this other man and put bounds on you association with your "friend" that will help this husband feel comfortable.

b) cut off the relationship.

You need to man up and do the right thing instead of playing the victim card. However, since you have absolutely 0 respect for this husband, I highly doubt option a is really an option. Your post ooze disrespect towards him and jealousy towards him for being married to her.

[mgridle]

15 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I don't demand she choose me it is up to her, I respect her decision whatever it is. 

 

I get paid to study and I have a part time job, plus my uncle and aunt give me money. Anyway my fiancee and I paid for the tickets together. I do not know why it is so uncommon to help your friends in the USA/England, back home it is natural if someone needs help and you can help then you help. 

 

I don't think that culture prevail, but just because she marry an English man doesn't mean she lose her culture. 

Who brought up the idea of paying for the tickets? I bet you did. That's not "respecting her decision"-that is interjecting yourself into the decision.

Nope, sorry- you don't get to play the "I don't know why it's so uncommon to help your friends", i.e. "I was just trying to be a good friend-you guys just don't understand me!". I've lived in latin american cultures and while they are certainly more friendly, you know as well as I do that even MORESO in latin american cultures, the husband is the head of the household.  Latin cultures are even MORE traditional family values based than American/European cultures.

You know as well as I do, that EVEN in latin American cultures, if some English dude bought some English woman who was married to a Latin dude a plane ticket from Columbia to England to see a good "friend" get married, that English dude would very quickly find himself on the wrong end of a serious grade A butt-whooping.

Nope, you don't get to play the "culture card". Actually yes, when she marries an English man in England, that means she becomes ENGLISH and that means that by almost necessity she will cut MOST cultural ties (not all but MOST).  It is why in general inter-racial and inter-cultural marriage are discouraged b/c it means by necessity that someone will be giving up some of their culture. 

[mgridle]

17 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I don't know why you can't understand you are just wrong.

It's easy, b/c he is in love with her.

[JayKi]

34 minutes ago, mgridle said:

No you don't- you seem to care more about WHO is attending your wedding vs. your actual wedding. Paying for another man's wife to fly half-way across the world to see you get married is not appropriate-you have only known her for 2 years!  I don't know maybe you want to show off to this other woman, look at me, look at me, see I'm normal I can pay for you to visit your family, look at the money I have . . .oh too bad you should have married me instead of that slouch who can't even pay for you to see your family, look at how mean, how much of a bad husband he is . . . but look at me.  I'm so great (if I had wanted to I could have married you!).

1 hour ago, JayKi said:

You are wrong I just do nice thing for her because I care for her happiness. You are the one twisting it. 

 

34 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Yes, that is exactly my point, you do love her, it is not platonic, you ARE emotionally invested in her, and you ARE having an emotional affair. Thank you for stating that, now we can dispense with all the excuses you are giving that it's just "platonic".

1 hour ago, JayKi said:

I love her only like I love my sisters. 

 

34 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Well you have yet to actually tell us what you texted her.  No it's not "if it is a problem", it already IS a problem- you are just in complete denial about it.

I already said what I text her and no one said it was bad so...  

 

 

[mgridle]

7 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I love her only like I love my sisters. 

Riiiiight, b/c you know I like always say things like "I could have married my sister, if I wanted to!!!"

8 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I already said what I text her and no one said it was bad so... 

No you didn't, lies do not become us.  You said you texted that you gave her a compliment-you did not actually put the text of what you said on the forum.

[JayKi]

9 hours ago, JayKi said:

I wanted to cheer her up so I sent her, "It will be okay Princessa, be happy you have a beautiful smile". I only see it can be flirtatious because I may send it to my girlfriend but also to my mother or grandmother or sister.  

@mgridle I did not lie I post it earlier. And respect my sister 

[JayKi]

27 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Who brought up the idea of paying for the tickets? I bet you did. That's not "respecting her decision"-that is interjecting yourself into the decision.

 

 

28 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Nope, sorry- you don't get to play the "I don't know why it's so uncommon to help your friends", i.e. "I was just trying to be a good friend-you guys just don't understand me!". I've lived in latin american cultures and while they are certainly more friendly, you know as well as I do that even MORESO in latin american cultures, the husband is the head of the household.  Latin cultures are even MORE traditional family values based than American/European cultures.

 

You are loca if you think that the husband is the head of the household, my grandma always told me women let men think that they are in charge, but secretly the men know it is the women. You ever met a hispanic chick? 

[mgridle]

1 minute ago, JayKi said:

@mgridle I did not lie I post it earlier. And respect my sister 

I'd need to see the entire context of the text, in Spanish please.  Sorry dude, even in latin cultures, a man in a platonic relationship DOES NOT call another married woman "princessa" without getting a butt-whooping.  You like to claim "cultural" ignorance, but I know even in your culture calling a married woman "princessa" is not platonic and is not okay-it is a term of endearment (and it's not used between brother's and sisters).  You want to claim you love her like a sister, but no latin man would call his sister "princessa" . . .MAYBE princesita but not princessa.

Stop using your culture and cultural differences as an excuse to have an emotional affair.  You know what you are doing, you know in the latin culture what you are doing would be frowned upon, don't use it as a cover.

 

[mgridle]

1 minute ago, JayKi said:

 

You are loca if you think that the husband is the head of the household, my grandma always told me women let men think that they are in charge, but secretly the men know it is the women. You ever met a hispanic chick? 

Yeah, I give you a secret, American women say the same thing dude.

[JayKi]

3 minutes ago, mgridle said:

I'd need to see the entire context of the text, in Spanish please.  Sorry dude, even in latin cultures, a man in a platonic relationship DOES NOT call another married woman "princessa" without getting a butt-whooping.  You like to claim "cultural" ignorance, but I know even in your culture calling a married woman "princessa" is not platonic and is not okay-it is a term of endearment (and it's not used between brother's and sisters).  You want to claim you love her like a sister, but no latin man would call his sister "princessa" . . .MAYBE princesita but not princessa.

 

I sent it in English, which was a mistake otherwise I avoid all this stress her husband would no idea what I say. I call my sister princessa all the time maybe my younger sister I call princesita. 

[mgridle]

Just now, JayKi said:

I sent it in English, which was a mistake otherwise I avoid all this stress her husband would no idea what I say. I call my sister princessa all the time maybe my younger sister I call princesita. 

If I just HIDE my relationship and what I say, it will all be okay. Yeap that a good recipe for success!

And again, I always make comments when talking about my sisters "I could have married her if I wanted too!"

This woman IS NOT YOUR SISTER and she NEVER will be.  So stop PRETENDING and trying to gain sympathy from others, "poor me, it's just cultural differences" or "I love her like a sister".  You clearly DO NOT love her like a sister.

The ONLY bond you have with her is that you have the same cultural background (i.e. latin), but she choose to give up the latin background to become ENGLISH. You should respect her decision to get married, to become English, and to get out of her marriage.

If you continue down this path, you clearly will not be getting married in the temple-i.e. you setting this relationship above getting married in the temple.  Good luck with that!

[mgridle]

9 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I sent it in English, which was a mistake otherwise I avoid all this stress her husband would no idea what I say. I call my sister princessa all the time maybe my younger sister I call princesita. 

That may be so but you don't called a married woman princessa, don't play dumb-you do that to another man's wife in latin culture you'd be getting beat up . . .and you know it.

[JayKi]

10 minutes ago, mgridle said:

This woman IS NOT YOUR SISTER and she NEVER will be.  So stop PRETENDING and trying to gain sympathy from others, "poor me, it's just cultural differences" or "I love her like a sister".  You clearly DO NOT love her like a sister.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by JayKi

[mgridle]

2 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Why do you want me to admit I am in love with her? It would be a lie for me to say that. And so what if I was? It is not a sin to love someone. 

Ahh classic denial tactic. Let me rephrase:

"Why do you want me to admit I am in love with my sister? It would be a lie for me to say that. And so what if I was? It is not a sin to love someone."

People who are in platonic relationships do not say "And so what if I was? It is not a sin to love someone."

Yeah, actually it is a sin to love another man's wife.

"Why do you want me to admit I am in love." I don't want you to admit anything, I'm just telling you the way things are. I know this is the way things are by your actions.  Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.  Your words say you are not in love with her, but your actions say that you are very much in love with her.

I understand this is probably hard, but the reason why you don't want to admit what your actions are saying is b/c when you do admit to yourself what your actions are saying then you will have to actually do something about it b/c you know it is wrong.  And once you admit it is wrong and you have to do something about it that something will result in less time and emotional energy being spent towards this woman and b/c you are in love with her the very thought of spending less time and emotional energy with her breaks your heart.

You either have the choice to have your heartbroken now and deal with the consequences of a little pain, or continue down this path and have your heartbroken later when the consequences are much more severe. But make no mistake, your heart will be broken over this woman.  Again, she is not your wife, she never will be, she is not your blood sister and she never will be. Friendships in life come and they go, it's just part of life.

Wisdom is learning to make the best of friendships when they are active and current and in the right time.  And to recognize that a close and continuing relationship with someone is very difficult to maintain over years, that's why married people say "they married their best friend".  Because people realize that if there is someone of the opposite sex who you want to maintain a close and continuing relationship with over many years, the proper thing to do is to marry them!  Ultimately that is what marriage is "friends with benefits" (or what it should be).

That's also why if you have a person of the opposite sex who you want to be friends with over a long period of time but with whom you aren't married or don't want to be married to, you involve their spouse!  You go on couple's dates, or you invite each other over for dinner, etc.

Quite frankly, the way you are defending this "friendship" is the way one would defend their relationship with their spouse.  You are in love with her, it is self-evident in your actions.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Why do you want me to admit I am in love with her? It would be a lie for me to say that. And so what if I was? It is not a sin to love someone. 

Uh-huh...

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction.

If you do not repent of your attitudes about

1) Your relationship with women.
2) Your attitude about the temple recommend and through it, the ecclesiastical authorities who have tried to help you in this matter.
3) The importance of marital relationships.

You will end up committing adultery.  Maybe not this woman, but with someone.

I know you're just going to go home to Costa Rica and game the system just so you can get married in the temple.  Is that really the way you want to obtain the highest ordinance of our earthly lives?  By lying your way through the recommend?  Yup.  Great plan for success.

[JayKi]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

2) Your attitude about the temple recommend and through it, the ecclesiastical authorities who have tried to help you in this matter.

What was I supposed to do get on my knees and thank him for ruining my wedding and persecuting me for no reason. You know that you can't lose a temple recommend because the Bishop doesn't approve of a friendship. 

 

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I know you're just going to go home to Costa Rica and game the system just so you can get married in the temple.  Is that really the way you want to obtain the highest ordinance of our earthly lives?  By lying your way through the recommend?  Yup.  Great plan for success.

I did nothing wrong so if I have to get one in Costa Rica so I can marry my fiancee then obviously I will do that but I have nothing to lie about.   

[Grunt]

29 minutes ago, JayKi said:

What was I supposed to do get on my knees and thank him for ruining my wedding and persecuting me for no reason. You know that you can't lose a temple recommend because the Bishop doesn't approve of a friendship. 

 

I did nothing wrong so if I have to get one in Costa Rica so I can marry my fiancee then obviously I will do that but I have nothing to lie about.   

You are on the wrong path and destined for unhappiness in your life and the lives surrounding you.  By this post alone I have gone from questioning the situation to realizing you have a wise Bishop who is attempting to help you and protect the sanctity of the temple.  

 

[JayKi]

35 minutes ago, Grunt said:

You are on the wrong path and destined for unhappiness in your life and the lives surrounding you.  By this post alone I have gone from questioning the situation to realizing you have a wise Bishop who is attempting to help you and protect the sanctity of the temple.  

 

Because I show friendship to a woman? You think I am destined for unhappiness. The Bishop abused his power to make a null point. He could have spoke to me but no he wanted to show off. 

[Grunt]

17 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Because I show friendship to a woman? You think I am destined for unhappiness. The Bishop abused his power to make a null point. He could have spoke to me but no he wanted to show off. 

You are dead wrong.  

[Lee]

26 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Because I show friendship to a woman? You think I am destined for unhappiness. The Bishop abused his power to make a null point. He could have spoke to me but no he wanted to show off. 

I feel for you, I agree that your Bishop probably shouldn't have taken away your temple recommend as truthfully your sole offence is having a friendship with a married woman. If that was a genuine reason I would have lost my temple recommend lots of times. You also feel that your Bishop took sides and had made up his mind on the matter before speaking to you, am I right?

I think that you should admit to your friend's husband that you have over stepped the line a few times. Then speak to your Bishop and tell him you have apologised for any misunderstanding. You are a lot more likely to get your recommend back if you admit to at least a few of your mistakes

 

[mgridle]

1 hour ago, JayKi said:

What was I supposed to do get on my knees and thank him for ruining my wedding and persecuting me for no reason. You know that you can't lose a temple recommend because the Bishop doesn't approve of a friendship. 

 

I did nothing wrong so if I have to get one in Costa Rica so I can marry my fiancee then obviously I will do that but I have nothing to lie about.   

You know part of growing up and being an adult in life is recognizing that others have valid viewpoints.  You may disagree with their viewpoint, even vehemently but just because you disagree doesn't mean they did something for "no reason" and they are "persecuting you".  You can understand where someone is coming from even when you disagree with them.

You continually claim that the Bishop (not you) ruined your wedding, this other man is the problem not you, this other woman should be the one to determine the extent of the relationship not you. Nowhere in this sorrid saga have you taken responsibility for your own actions and acknowledged that your own actions might have something to contribute to the situation you are in.

Quite frankly, with this attitude you will not stay married long-regardless of your "friendship" to this other woman. Marriage can be awesome but it can also be very painful.  And the one thing I have learned that makes marriage very painful is when one of the partners (or both) refuses to acknowledge the responsibility they have for their own actions. 

You are in for lots and lots of arguments in your marriage, unless you have a doormat for a partner.  But my guess is if you have a doormat for a partner, she won't challenge you enough and you'll look elsewhere and eventually get divorced or commit adultery.  And then when that does happen, you will blame her for the divorce or the adultery and you will be blameless.

Good luck to you man.  I sincerely hope you figure this stuff out before you cause real pain in your life, my guess is you won't, but you can't say people didn't try to warn you.

[JayKi]

41 minutes ago, Lee said:

I feel for you, I agree that your Bishop probably shouldn't have taken away your temple recommend as truthfully your sole offence is having a friendship with a married woman. If that was a genuine reason I would have lost my temple recommend lots of times. You also feel that your Bishop took sides and had made up his mind on the matter before speaking to you, am I right?

I think that you should admit to your friend's husband that you have over stepped the line a few times. Then speak to your Bishop and tell him you have apologised for any misunderstanding. You are a lot more likely to get your recommend back if you admit to at least a few of your mistakes

 

Thank you for understanding situation, apparently some people can't understand even simple thing. The Bishop did decide before he speak to me, he has no concept of being fair. 

 

I would of admit to him and apologise but now I don't care for his opinion. He could have been man about it and spoke to me but no he disrespect me by pretending to the Bishop I did something wrong, he has no spine. 

 

Anyway it doesn't matter if my friend's husband waits for 10 weeks like a good boy, then me , my wife and my friend we all hang out together. He has no need to fuss.

[JayKi]

41 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Quite frankly, with this attitude you will not stay married long-regardless of your "friendship" to this other woman. Marriage can be awesome but it can also be very painful.  And the one thing I have learned that makes marriage very painful is when one of the partners (or both) refuses to acknowledge the responsibility they have for their own actions. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, mgridle said:

You are in for lots and lots of arguments in your marriage, unless you have a doormat for a partner.  But my guess is if you have a doormat for a partner, she won't challenge you enough and you'll look elsewhere and eventually get divorced or commit adultery.  And then when that does happen, you will blame her for the divorce or the adultery and you will be blameless.

 

Don't say those things about my fiancee and me, we will have great marriage. You are clueless.