No really, vaccines good things, anti-vac is growing more and more deadly.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Of course I am!  I gets me info strait off the interwebs!

The My Little Pony thing was disturbing enough. 

[NeuroTypical]

Vaccinations are scary for them too.

 

 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Vaccinations are scary for them too.

 

 

Yeah, um, the My Little Pony thing was disturbing enough. 

[Guest MormonGator]

I know I've said it before and I apologize, but the war on science is over. Science lost. How else do you explain the rise of anti-vaxxers? 

[SpiritDragon]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I know I've said it before and I apologize, but the war on science is over. Science lost. 

I don't so much think that science has lost, or at least not that the scientific method has lost, but that the way we fund and disseminate "science" has lost credibility. The problem is that science is bought and paid for by corporations with financial and political interests. Even if the scientific method is applied properly the stink of biased funding makes it hard to believe results. This goes for nutrition, climate change, economics and basically everything that can be scientifically studied. By discontinuing studies that start to show preliminary results that aren't in the funders best interest useful information stays out of the literature while plans can be made to set the conditions such that the desired outcome will be found. Continue to fund enough studies designed to bring about a certain outcome and others that may show contrary information can be dismissed as outliers which will statistically happen but shouldn't cause any great concern.

I don't have the answers, but it seems like as a society we've lost more and more trust in government and corporations to get things right.  

[anatess2]

13 hours ago, Anddenex said:

I understand what you are saying; however, I solely put this on this doctor. The amount of money we spend and time shouldn't be any excuse for placing position (doctor) over patient. Let's review from the story two statements:

1) Vaccines are safe.

2) The doctor said "There is a "rare" complication that can happen. But if she stops screaming she'll be fine."

First, if the doctor had more intellectual and professional integrity the easy statement would be something to this nature, "Vaccines are safe for the majority of people and you should vaccinate your child; however, we do know there are rare complications and we should make sure your daughter is not one of those rare complications. We won't move forward until you are comfortable with this decision." This mother wouldn't have a brain damaged child, due to vaccines, if he cared more about his patient rather than his position (or as you say, his time and money).

Second, it doesn't matter if the doctor is religious or non-religious. Taking care of your patient should first priority. This kinda reminds me of Patch Adams and the dialogue with his roommate. I would consider, and am very glad I have had doctor's who listen to their patients rather than disregarding their patients solely because -- "Hey, I am educated with time and money -- I'm right!" In this situation though we aren't talking about telling a doctor not to vaccinate a kid, we are talking about a mother inquiring about their own kid. Sure, no one should tell a doctor not to vaccinate a kid, but they do have every right to ask and inquire and be frankly and honestly talked to.

 

 

13 hours ago, carlimac said:

I'm going to bat for this doctor. I think the only thing he did wrong was perhaps persistently encouraging giving the shot that day when the baby had a low grade fever. They could have come back when the baby's temp was normal. but it isn't unheard of to give shots if there is a slight fever. I think  it was specifically BECAUSE the doctor was concerned about his patient -about the baby catching Pertussis that he encouraged giving the shot asap.  Pertussis is wretched and can be fatal for babies. There is no way a doctor can know for certain before the shot is given which child will have a severe reaction. ( Except it's not recommended for kids with certain types of allergies). It sounds to me like he WAS acting in the best interest of the patient. It's wrong to characterize doctors as uncaring. Some are,  but most absolutely DO care. Especially pediatricians! It's NOT the easiest specialty and what I learned from working with hundreds of them is that they tend to care more than most. ENTS on the other hand...  I've had more bad experiences with ENTs than any other kind of doctor. 

I'm going to bat for this doctor too.

There are doctors with good bedside manners and there are doctors with bad bedside manners.  It's just the same here in 3H where there are posters like @LiterateParakeet who always speak, er write, in compassionate tone and there are posters like me who are more matter-of-fact.

What @Anddenex states that the doctor said is NOT A LIE.  Vaccines are safe for the vast majority of children.  There are kids who scream after a shot and there are kids who whimper and cry.  But most all of them are fine after they stop screaming.  That's a FACT.  Whether you say it in @LiterateParakeet's tone or my tone, it doesn't change the fact.

Now, from the side of the doctor - it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.  That's the life of a doctor 24/7/365.25.  He vaccinates a kid, he gets brain damage - doctor's fault.  He doesn't vaccinate a kid - kid dies of <insert disease here> - doctor's fault.  Doctor vaccinates a kid and the kid goes through life healthy, happy, without contracting and spreading vaccinated disease - nobody remembers the doctor.  So doctors apply statistical probabilities to stay true to their hippocratic oath.  There's an ER Surgeon in my city who, in the middle of the night, operated on a victim of a drive-by shooting who was bleeding to death on the ER table.  He got fined millions of dollars because the victim came out of surgery with no feeling on his arm.  He can move his arm just fine, he just can't feel anything.  Millions of dollars because the court ruled the doctor made a mistake in the surgery.  Yeah, everybody just completely forgot that this ER doctor saved a guy's life.

Edited May 23, 2019 by anatess2

[NeuroTypical]

12 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I know I've said it before and I apologize, but the war on science is over. Science lost. How else do you explain the rise of anti-vaxxers? 

It sounds snarky, like I'm not being serious, but no really, russian twitter bots, in an attempt to divide and weaken our country, have been making us look like idiots in various ways.  One of those ways is by making it look like there are more moronic anti-vaxxers in greater numbers than there actually are, saying dumber things than they usually say.

It's true.

No really. 

See for yourself: https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304567

Science didn't lose, but Americans are being sold a bill of goods when we believe the anti-vax/pro-vax conflicts are as silly as they are.  (Or the antifa/nazi conflicts, or the feminist cancer/male supremacist conflicts.)

Edited May 23, 2019 by NeuroTypical

[mirkwood]

12 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Yeah, um, the My Little Pony thing was disturbing enough. 

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Science didn't lose, but Americans are being sold a bill of goods when we believe the anti-vax/pro-vax conflicts are as silly as they are.  (Or the antifa/nazi conflicts, or the feminist cancer/male supremacist conflicts.)

I'm gonna pull this one - you don't see anti-vaxxers promoted in Hollywood Movies and TV Shows, Universities, Government, and MSM.  Feminist Cancer is plaguing those institutions.

Just the latest contribution to this cancer:

[NeuroTypical]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm gonna pull this one - you don't see anti-vaxxers promoted in Hollywood Movies and TV Shows, Universities, Government, and MSM.  Feminist Cancer is plaguing those institutions.

I'm not saying these things don't exist independently, just that there are external attempts to make them worse.  That's what you do - find a weak spot of an enemy and try to make it weaker. 

[Guest MormonGator]

4 hours ago, mirkwood said:

The only thing worse than Kiss fans and adult My Little Pony fans are grown men who own cats. 

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

The only thing worse than Kiss fans and adult My Little Pony fans are grown men who own cats. 

[Guest MormonGator]

22 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Dude, I think you are obsessed with me liking Kiss. More so than I actually like Kiss! 

[mirkwood]

21 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Dude, I think you are obsessed with me liking Kiss. More so than I actually like Kiss! 

Sorry.

You know Johnny loved cats right?

 

 

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

The only thing worse than Kiss fans and adult My Little Pony fans are grown men who own cats. 

[Guest MormonGator]

15 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Sorry.

You know Johnny loved cats right?

 

 

Uh, that's Joey. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by MormonGator

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That's my boy. 

[mirkwood]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Uh, that's Joey. 

One Ramone is the same as another.

 

 

 

[mirkwood]

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, mirkwood said:

Ah, much better. I love pictures of Scott Ian* with cats. 

(*mistake purposely made to make you feel better. We all know it's really Dave Mustaine.) 

[mirkwood]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Ah, much better. I love pictures of Scott Ian* with cats. 

(*mistake purposely made to make you feel better. We all know it's really Dave Mustaine.) 

Seriously?  That is Ian Gillan.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, mirkwood said:

Seriously?  That is Ian Gillan.

Dude, I am hoping and praying someone calls us out right now. 

[mirkwood]

lol

[mirkwood]

Totally loved Ian's vocals on Stairway To Heaven.