Utah Medical Marijuana passes

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Chill, I didn't say you did. It's a general comment about politics/people -how people change their stances if their side wins/loses. I think it's 100% accurate. Another great example of this is people who love the electoral college-when their side wins. But hate it when their sides loses. I saw that all over the place in 2016. 

The sequence of posts led me to believe so.

1. You challenged me by asking about the 99:1 thing
2. I responded about republics vs. democracies.
3. You made the comment about people changing positions.

For the record: Yes, I agree it is quite common to do that in politics. It's all about having our way, not about being consistent in our principles.  But I disagree with the 100% hyperbole.  Republicans let Herman Cain go -- even though he was our great Black hope -- because of the accusations of sexual harassment... because we had made such a stink about character being so important (Clinton).  He, himself realized that the fight probably wasn't worth it.  And the fight was lost.

The entire reason Kavanaugh hearings stretched out was because we were willing to go through the process to hash it out and go through discovery.  Democrats hid a half a dozen sexual scandals that came to light during the same (or near the same) time period.  No discovery.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, I agree 

That's all that matters. 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

That's all that matters. 

I disagree. 😎

Edited November 8, 2018 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

See this is why I love and hate politics. Our views change depending on if we win or lose a debate/election. I think Senator Nelson needs to accept that he lost, stop looking for a sleazy way to stay in office, and move on. I think people in Utah who didn't support the weed amendment need to accept that they lost, stop looking for a sleazy way to change things, and move on. 

First off, the Church (and several other key players on both sides) deliberately de-escalated their campaigns several weeks ago specifically because they had agreed on a “fix bill” that would go through whether or not the proposition passed.

Second, speaking generally:  the fact that we are a representative republic rather than a direct democracy, affirms that sometimes a republican government will have to stand between the people and what they think they want in the heat of the moment.  If the people want to punish those counter-majoritarian legislators in the next election cycle—they are free to do so. 

Whether unelected and nearly un-removable federal judges should play a similar role, overpowering *both* the voice of the people *and* republican representatives for primarily political purposes; is an entirely different question.  

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

First off, the Church (and several other key players on both sides) deliberately de-escalated their campaigns several weeks ago specifically because they had agreed on a “fix bill” that would go through whether or not the proposition passed.

Second, speaking generally:  the fact that we are a representative republic rather than a direct democracy, affirms that sometimes a republican government will have to stand between the people and what they think they want in the heat of the moment.  If the people want to punish those counter-majoritarian legislators in the next election cycle—they are free to do so. 

Whether unelected and nearly un-removable federal judges should play a similar role, overpowering *both* the voice of the people *and* republican representatives for primarily political purposes; is an entirely different question.  

I'm guessing you missed my post where I said virtually the same thing in response to his previous post.

Well... great minds.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

34 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm guessing you missed my post where I said virtually the same thing in response to his previous post.

Well... great minds.

I did, sorry.   

[askandanswer]

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

 The church doesn't have the right to tell non-members how to live their lives though. 

All of God's children, members or not, need to hear what the church has to say.  Their eternal salvation depends on it.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

First off, the Church (and several other key players on both sides) deliberately de-escalated their campaigns several weeks ago specifically because they had agreed on a “fix bill” that would go through whether or not the proposition passed.

Second, speaking generally:  the fact that we are a representative republic rather than a direct democracy, affirms that sometimes a republican government will have to stand between the people and what they think they want in the heat of the moment.  If the people want to punish those counter-majoritarian legislators in the next election cycle—they are free to do so. 

 

Thirdly, I know we are a republic. 
Fourthly, I remain convinced that a republican government will have to stand between the people and what they think they want only when we agree with it. If we disagree with it, we'll stomp our feet and demand that our republican government isn't listening to the will of the people. 
Fifthly (is that even a word?) yes, they are free to vote out whoever they want. 
Sixthly (Is that even a word?) that the weed amendment passed shows that those who obstruct its implementation might just be voted out. Worse, it shows a grave concern of mine-that the church is losing influence. 

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

All of God's children, members or not, need to hear what the church has to say.  Their eternal salvation depends on it.

Hear it? Yes, we agree 100%. 
Be forced to obey it? Totally different. 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

28 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

[1]Sixthly (Is that even a word?) that the weed amendment passed shows that those who obstruct its implementation might just be voted out. Worse, it shows a grave concern of mine-that the church is losing influence. 

[2]Hear it? Yes, we agree 100%. 
Be forced to obey it? Totally different. 
 

1.  It may well show a decrease in LDS influence in Utah politics; though as has been noted, Utah’s role in ending prohibition wasn’t exactly the swan song for LDS political power here, either.  The detail to remember about Prop 2 is that for about a month, *everyone* has known and agreed that even if it passed it would be superseded when the legislature convenes in January.  To the extent that its supporters remained active, their battle cry was simply “make sure the Legislatee doesn’t back out at the last minute”.  I think our legislators have much more to fear from Prop 4 (which turned redistributing over to an “independent” *cough, BULLCRAP, cough* commission.

[2] It sounds like you’re saying that regardless of the majoritarian position, it just ain’t right to tell a guy he can’t use weed.  

I’d agree, if weed only hurt the user.  But it doesn’t.  The State of Utah pays me—not excessively, but reasonably well—along with literally hundreds of other people, to deal with family disruptions that in a major portion of our cases had their genesis in the recreational use of perfectly legal substances.  Throw in marijuana, and “major portion” becomes “majority”.  What natural right do the potheads have to make the broader citizenry pay for the collateral damage imposed by their hobby, if the citizenry wishes to ban it through the legislative process?

Edited November 9, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The State of Utah pays me—not excessively,

Maybe you should consider dealing weed instead?  You'd probably make more. Do it quick, before they fully legalize it! 

Edited November 9, 2018 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Maybe you should consider dealing weed instead?  You'd probably make more. Do it quick, before they fully legalize it! 

I can do both!  The ”fix bill” involves state-run dispensaries.  

(I wonder whether that exposes the state to a federal racketeering/RICO charge, but that isn’t really my problem.  )

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

I can do both!  The ”fix bill” involves state-run dispensaries.  

 

See! There you go! Who says lawyers can't think outside the box!!! So proud of you @Just_A_Guy! 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Fourthly, I remain convinced that a republican government will have to stand between the people and what they think they want only when we agree with it. If we disagree with it, we'll stomp our feet and demand that our republican government isn't listening to the will of the people. 

Of course we're going to stomp our feet and hate it.  Doesn't make it wrong or illegal.  That's the way it's supposed to work whether we like it or not.

50 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sixthly (Is that even a word?) that the weed amendment passed shows that those who obstruct its implementation might just be voted out. Worse, it shows a grave concern of mine-that the church is losing influence. 

Seventhly, What the heck is the weed amendment and what does that have to do with the Church?

Infinitively (heh-heh) No need to be concerned.  It's a fact.  The Church is losing influence.  Tennis, anyone?

[Anddenex]

On 11/7/2018 at 7:49 AM, MormonGator said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/11/07/utah-voters-approve-medical-marijuana/#162390f24140

Putting my personal feelings on this issue aside, I think this shows that the political influence of the church might be declining.

Fulfillment of times my friend, fulfillment of times. As the world continues to ripen in iniquity, the influence (political and spiritual) will decline, "And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard sent his servant; and the servant went and did as the Lord had commanded him, and brought other servants; and they were few."

However, we also know, that the elect will grow stronger and more committed; although the numbers are few. Sadly, we will have to deal with a world that further removes itself from Light and into Darkness.

 

[Grunt]

15 hours ago, MormonGator said:

 Worse, it shows a grave concern of mine-that the church is losing influence. 

 

 

Changed my mind

Edited November 9, 2018 by Grunt

[Guest MormonGator]

54 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Changed my mind

Thank you! Mission accomplished. Next, we'll work on changing your mind about gay marriage and abortion. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Thank you! Mission accomplished. Next, we'll work on changing your mind about gay marriage and abortion. 

I believe that gay couples ought to have the right to abort their babies -- especially the male couples. . . waitaminute.

[Grunt]

29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Thank you! Mission accomplished. Next, we'll work on changing your mind about gay marriage and abortion. 

Or, we can work on getting you to attend church, tithe, and holding a temple recommend.  Those are much more noble causes, in my opinion.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Thank you! Mission accomplished. Next, we'll work on changing your mind about gay marriage and abortion. 

Just remember we love you, bro.

[Guest MormonGator]

33 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Or, we can work on getting you to attend church, tithe, and holding a temple recommend.  Those are much more noble causes, in my opinion.

You donate to NARAL and join the ACLU and we'll talk. 😉

[Guest MormonGator]

50 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Just remember we love you, bro.

Thanks! I love everyone here too except this @Carborendum guy. What an idiot. 
(kidding!) 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Thanks! I love everyone here too except this @Carborendum guy. What an idiot. 
(kidding!) 

Yeah, I usually can't stand him either.  I wonder why he keeps coming back here.

[Just_A_Guy]

32 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You donate to NARAL and join the ACLU and we'll talk. 😉

 I noticed that you did not specify precisely what it is we should “donate” to NARAL. 💩

[Guest MormonGator]

For the record, I think NARAL is a bridge too far as well. It was a total joke. 

[Grunt]

49 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You donate to NARAL and join the ACLU and we'll talk. 😉

Will that grant me eternal life, exaltation, and please Heavenly Father?