Doctrine and Covenants 93:35

[askandanswer]

35  The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.
 

Could somebody help me understand what this means please, or share your most informed speculation? My initial understanding is that a tabernacle, being a dwelling place, then God dwells within the 118 elements, ie, He is everywhere, but this doesn't sit comfortably with other teachings about the physical nature of God's body. Perhaps there is more to God than just that which is contained within His body? But that doesn't sound right either. I did come across the following from Orson Pratt in the Journal of Discourses (2:334) but I don't think I quite understand what he's saying, and even if I did correctly understand it, I'm not sure if what he is saying is correct. 

 

 One world has a personal God or Father, and the inhabitants thereof worship the attributes of that God, another world has another, and they worship His attributes, and besides Him there is no other; Isa. 43:11 Isa. 44:6 and when they worship Him they are at the same time worshipping the same attributes that dwell in all the personal Gods who fill immensity. And hence the Lord says, in one of the revelations of these last days: “Ye are tabernacles in which God dwells, man is the tabernacle of God.” D&C 93:35 Suppose that there should be a thousand, or one hundred and forty-four thousand, which number John saw, and they should have the inscription “God” on their foreheads, Rev. 14:1 not placed there to make fun of them, but to describe their persons and the authority they possess. Suppose they should all receive the same knowledge, would not God dwell in them? If man is the tabernacle of God, then God dwells in them all, being only one God; but when we speak of them in their personal capacity, we say that John saw a hundred and forty-four thousand Gods; if we speak of the light or truth in each that governs them all then there is but one God, and He is in all worlds, and throughout all space, wherever the same identical light or truth is found; and all beings, from all eternity to all eternity, have to worship and adore the same one God, and always will have to worship Him; though they worship Him in so many different tabernacles, yet it is the one God, or in other words, the same light or truth that is worshipped by all. When we look at the subject in this light, there is no mystery about it. 

[zil]

I'm not entirely certain, and I don't have more time to read all of Pratt's discourse, but it seems he's saying that there are these attributes, which we'll call "light and truth" which make an individual "God".  Also, in order to have all light and truth, one must be resurrected (hence, element).  Thus, "Godness" requires the combination of "light and truth and element" - immortal, exalted, resurrected.  Further, it's always the same light and truth, no matter what individual attains "Godness" - hence, one God (regardless of how many people attain this state), and the potential for "Godness" exists in all element.  Or something like that.

That may be a really lousy explanation, but it kinda makes sense in my head.  But I have to go get ready for a stake training meeting now.

For those who don't have other access, you can get to the Orson Pratt discourse via the free (LDS Scripture) Citation Index app.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

35  The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.
 

Could somebody help me understand what this means please, or share your most informed speculation? My initial understanding is that a tabernacle, being a dwelling place, then God dwells within the 118 elements, ie, He is everywhere, but this doesn't sit comfortably with other teachings about the physical nature of God's body. Perhaps there is more to God than just that which is contained within His body? But that doesn't sound right either. I did come across the following from Orson Pratt in the Journal of Discourses (2:334) but I don't think I quite understand what he's saying, and even if I did correctly understand it, I'm not sure if what he is saying is correct. 

I have no idea what you're really saying here in your interpretation.  You may have to dumb it down for me a bit.

The verse apparently says that Temples and the soul of man (spirit and body) are made up of elements (the dust of the earth).  And those are both places wherein God may dwell.  I don't know what that has to do with God being "everywhere" or not.

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

One world has a personal God or Father, and the inhabitants thereof worship the attributes of that God, another world has another, and they worship His attributes, and besides Him there is no other; Isa. 43:11 Isa. 44:6 and when they worship Him they are at the same time worshipping the same attributes that dwell in all the personal Gods who fill immensity. And hence the Lord says, in one of the revelations of these last days: “Ye are tabernacles in which God dwells, man is the tabernacle of God.” D&C 93:35 Suppose that there should be a thousand, or one hundred and forty-four thousand, which number John saw, and they should have the inscription “God” on their foreheads, Rev. 14:1 not placed there to make fun of them, but to describe their persons and the authority they possess. Suppose they should all receive the same knowledge, would not God dwell in them? If man is the tabernacle of God, then God dwells in them all, being only one God; but when we speak of them in their personal capacity, we say that John saw a hundred and forty-four thousand Gods; if we speak of the light or truth in each that governs them all then there is but one God, and He is in all worlds, and throughout all space, wherever the same identical light or truth is found; and all beings, from all eternity to all eternity, have to worship and adore the same one God, and always will have to worship Him; though they worship Him in so many different tabernacles, yet it is the one God, or in other words, the same light or truth that is worshipped by all. When we look at the subject in this light, there is no mystery about it. 

I don't see how Pratt comments at all about our bodies being the "tabernacle of God".  He quotes the verse to help support his point.  But it doesn't really say anything along the lines of what you're saying.

Our bodies are temples. We are the tabernacle of the Lord.  I don't know why it has to be any more complex than that.  Did you have something else in mind?  And what scripture supports it?

[CV75]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

35  The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

Could somebody help me understand what this means please, or share your most informed speculation? My initial understanding is that a tabernacle, being a dwelling place, then God dwells within the 118 elements, ie, He is everywhere, but this doesn't sit comfortably with other teachings about the physical nature of God's body. Perhaps there is more to God than just that which is contained within His body? But that doesn't sound right either. I did come across the following from Orson Pratt in the Journal of Discourses (2:334) but I don't think I quite understand what he's saying, and even if I did correctly understand it, I'm not sure if what he is saying is correct. 

 One world has a personal God or Father, and the inhabitants thereof worship the attributes of that God, another world has another, and they worship His attributes, and besides Him there is no other; Isa. 43:11 Isa. 44:6 and when they worship Him they are at the same time worshipping the same attributes that dwell in all the personal Gods who fill immensity. And hence the Lord says, in one of the revelations of these last days: “Ye are tabernacles in which God dwells, man is the tabernacle of God.” D&C 93:35 Suppose that there should be a thousand, or one hundred and forty-four thousand, which number John saw, and they should have the inscription “God” on their foreheads, Rev. 14:1 not placed there to make fun of them, but to describe their persons and the authority they possess. Suppose they should all receive the same knowledge, would not God dwell in them? If man is the tabernacle of God, then God dwells in them all, being only one God; but when we speak of them in their personal capacity, we say that John saw a hundred and forty-four thousand Gods; if we speak of the light or truth in each that governs them all then there is but one God, and He is in all worlds, and throughout all space, wherever the same identical light or truth is found; and all beings, from all eternity to all eternity, have to worship and adore the same one God, and always will have to worship Him; though they worship Him in so many different tabernacles, yet it is the one God, or in other words, the same light or truth that is worshipped by all. When we look at the subject in this light, there is no mystery about it. 

God has a soul defined by connected spirit and element as we do. In this way the elements are His tabernacle, or habitation. Because Jesus Christ atoned for our sins and overcame sin and death, our tabernacles, or habitations, or temples, belong to Him. This is another way the elements are His tabernacle. Earlier in D&C 93 we see that His power is in and through all things; we learn elsewhere that His Spirit can dwell in us; and Pratt extends the light of Christ and the Holy Ghost to His knowledge and influence. God destroys defiled temples in at least two ways: He removes the unrepentant from the earth and grants them lesser degrees of glory in the afterlife. I’m thinking that “temples” may refer to those souls who have made sacred covenants and have His name upon them.

Edited November 12, 2018 by CV75

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

35  The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

 

Several ways to understand this.

A simple way is this.  Do you have the Holy Ghost with you at all times or not?  Does it dwell with you or not?

Another way to view it is to read the scripture in context.

AS such..

Quote

23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.

26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;

27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.

28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.

38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.

39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.

40 But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth.

Another way to view this, and more direct in the verse...Every thing created from elements are a tabernacle.  In order to receive a fullness of joy the spirit of man must be connected inseparably.  When this is done and man keeps the commandments and receives truth and light he receives truth and knowledge.  When this is done he can receive the fullness of joy.

The Spirit of truth brings us knowledge and those who accept truth and light (thus gaining knowledge) by keeping the commandments and having this Spirit can eventually be glorified.

PS: And, of course, the opposite ALSO holds true.  Those who reject the Spirit of truth...

Edited November 12, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[mikbone]

Quote

 

D&C 93:33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

 

So, scientifically speaking...  What makes you, you?  We can cut off your appendages and you are still you.  We can remove your heart and replace it with a transplant and you are still you.  But remove your brain, and you are gone.  We haven't figured out how to transplant brains, yet.

The same goes for the Soul.  The Soul is the combination of the Body and the Spirit.  There are mortal souls and Celestial souls and everything in-between.  And if you remove someone's body - like at death, the spirit still retains the essence of the person.  It isn't the body that determines the identity of the soul, it is the spirit.  

And again scientifically, probably 99.9% of the elements that compose your body were not there when you were 8 years old. The elements and molecules that make up our bodies turnover as we age.  

God is a omnipotent being composed of a spirit that knows all things, combined with perfected celestial body.  

The matter that now composes our bodies is telestial matter.  The matter that we now know and love is bound by physics that we are just beginning to understand.  And if you know anything about the quantum mechanics and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle (and I'm not saying I understand it at all), you recognize that telestial material is very messy.  God's physical being may be made of entirely different material...  We don't know.  

Orson Pratt loved to dabble in esoteric doctrine...  So, I'm not sure that his commentary should be applied to your question.  

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by mikbone

[Vort]

7 hours ago, askandanswer said:

35  The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.
 

Could somebody help me understand what this means please, or share your most informed speculation? My initial understanding is that a tabernacle, being a dwelling place, then God dwells within the 118 elements, ie, He is everywhere, but this doesn't sit comfortably with other teachings about the physical nature of God's body. Perhaps there is more to God than just that which is contained within His body? But that doesn't sound right either.

I can't really comment on Elder Pratt's musings, but I'm happy to offer my interpretation of D&C 93:35.

Section 93 focuses on what missionaries might call "deep doctrine". It describes or even defines what existence means, and talks about how man is condemned by misuse of his agency, and in what his agency consists.

In describing man's very existence and agency, verse 33 reaffirms that man is spirit. Remember that God, too, is spirit, so saying that man is spirit is describing man's Godlike (and therefore condemnable for misuse) nature. Then 33 goes on to describe the relationship between man's eternal spirit and the eternal elements. It is the connection of the two, spirit and element, that allows a man (woman) to receive a "fulness of joy", which we understand to mean exaltation. Only in the combination of eternal spirit and eternal element can a fulness of joy be received.

The elements—in this context, obviously meaning a physical body—are the "tabernacle" of God. Why? Because our spirit is of God. Our spirit is, very literally, the spirit of God. Our bodies are "tabernacles" for this spirit to dwell in. Thus, since the holy spirit of God (ourselves) dwell in these tabernacles, the tabernacles are holy. They are literal temples of God, where the spirit of God dwells.

(Note that "tabernacle" literally means a tent, which is a temporary dwelling place for people who are on a journey. That is precisely what our physical bodies are for us while we live in mortality. Similarly, if a "temple" is defined as an abode build for the spirit of God to dwell in, our bodies are literal temples. The physical constructs of concrete and mortar that we call "temples" are truly the metaphorical temples; we ourselves are the literal temples.)

At this point, verse 35 is self-explanatory. God will destroy defiled temples, because they are a mockery of what temples should be. And if we ourselves, in our physical forms, are literally temples of God, then if we are corrupt and defiled...God will destroy us.

That's my take.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Vort

[askandanswer]

17 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 

 

17 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I have no idea what you're really saying here in your interpretation.  You may have to dumb it down for me a bit.

The verse apparently says that Temples and the soul of man (spirit and body) are made up of elements (the dust of the earth).  And those are both places wherein God may dwell.  I don't know what that has to do with God being "everywhere" or not.

I don't see how Pratt comments at all about our bodies being the "tabernacle of God".  He quotes the verse to help support his point.  But it doesn't really say anything along the lines of what you're saying.

Our bodies are temples. We are the tabernacle of the Lord.  I don't know why it has to be any more complex than that.  Did you have something else in mind?  And what scripture supports it?

The idea I was questioning here is that if the elements are the tabernacle of God, and if God dwells in the tabernacle, the elements are everywhere, so God must be everywhere. That seemed like an idea worth questioning as Latter-Day doctrine is that God occupies a particular physical space in the same way that you and I do. 

I wasn't offering Pratt in support of anything I said - I was just providing it as one possible source of information that might cast light on the scripture being discussed.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

The idea I was questioning here is that if the elements are the tabernacle of God, and if God dwells in the tabernacle, the elements are everywhere, so God must be everywhere. That seemed like an idea worth questioning as Latter-Day doctrine is that God occupies a particular physical space in the same way that you and I do.

I interpret it as saying that they are his abode as we have an abode.  We can be at home, at work, a vacation home, a hotel... God is in one place at one time in much the same way we are. But he can call any of these places his home to live in and do with as he wishes.

I'm remodeling my house currently.  I can do with it whatever I wish.  I don't need permission to do so.  I'm not there 100% of the time.  But if there is a portion of it that is broken, aged, damaged, etc. I will demolish that portion and rebuild.

I actually am beginning floor plans to do so some time next year.

I don't see why this necessarily means that he's in EVERY particle at EVERY moment in time.  Yet, we also have the statement that the "Light of Christ" is in and through all things.  But that is quite different than his personal being.