Military Spending

[Tyme]

2 minutes ago, bytebear said:

Well, you said military spending was 50% of the budget.  But even your own source lists it as 15%.  And if you look at historical numbers, military spending went down since WWII,  whereas entitlement spending (or what you would call Social Security and Medicare, among others) went from zero to about (33% + 27%).

 

I said 50% of discretionary spending. That's the spending the government decides over. The rest is mandatory. As far as "entitlement" spending of Social Security and Medicare the program didn't really hit it's stride until people started retiring. In other words, nobody was drawing off Social Security during WW2. It would be natural that you see more spending now as the program has hit its full bloom and there are more people.

[Tyme]

3 minutes ago, bytebear said:

But much of Iraqi deaths were due to civil war, not US intervention.  

If you're counting Iraq as a civil war than you have to definitely count Vietnam as a civil war. I would even surmise that Vietnam was more of a civil war than Iraq. You clearly had two sides of the same country fighting each other in Vietnam. That wasn't the case in Iraq. ISIS was a group based out of Syria primarily that tried to take over the whole middle east.

[bytebear]

4 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I said 50% of discretionary spending. That's the spending the government decides over. The rest is mandatory. As far as "entitlement" spending of Social Security and Medicare the program didn't really hit it's stride until people started retiring. In other words, nobody was drawing off Social Security during WW2. It would be natural that you see more spending now as the program has hit its full bloom and there are more people.

Both SS and Medicare didn't exist 50 years ago, and neither program is solvent, and in fact, SS was taxed beginning in the 80s, and they are still working on ways to keep it maintained.  It's a tax disguised as a savings program.  it should be abolished, or at least put into personal funds that are maintained by the recipient, rather than general fund.

[bytebear]

3 minutes ago, Tyme said:

If you're counting Iraq as a civil war than you have to definitely count Vietnam as a civil war. I would even surmise that Vietnam was more of a civil war than Iraq. You clearly had two sides of the same country fighting each other in Vietnam. That wasn't the case in Iraq. ISIS was a group based out of Syria primarily that tried to take over the whole middle east.

Sure, i can do that too.  The numbers are still far lower for Iraq than Vietnam.  In fact, all Middle East wars combined are still less than Vietnam.

[Tyme]

2 minutes ago, bytebear said:

Sure, i can do that too.  The numbers are still far lower for Iraq than Vietnam.  In fact, all Middle East wars combined are still less than Vietnam.

Fair enough.

[bytebear]

My point is this.  We are keeping the peace.  Even when we are bad at it,  the US is a force for peace, and it's working.  And we are doing it with fewer resources every year.  In the meantime, we are spending massive amounts of money into entitlements, that aren't solvent, and that don't actually solve the problems of poverty or health care, and in fact, in my opinion make them worse.  We don't save for retirement like we did, and we assume the government will bail us out.  And we aren't charitable as we should be because we assume government will do the job, making us even resentful for those in need.  I believe it goes against the gospel.  I think that learning compassion and charity are lost when we rely on government.  So, aside from the waste and corruption, we lose out on our own spiritual growth.

[Tyme]

2 minutes ago, bytebear said:

My point is this.  We are keeping the peace.  Even when we are bad at it,  the US is a force for peace, and it's working.  And we are doing it with fewer resources every year.  In the meantime, we are spending massive amounts of money into entitlements, that aren't solvent, and that don't actually solve the problems of poverty or health care, and in fact, in my opinion make them worse.  We don't save for retirement like we did, and we assume the government will bail us out.  And we aren't charitable as we should be because we assume government will do the job, making us even resentful for those in need.  I believe it goes against the gospel.  I think that learning compassion and charity are lost when we rely on government.  So, aside from the waste and corruption, we lose out on our own spiritual growth.

I agree something needs to be done about social security and medicare expenditures. I'd be interested in hearing ideas on that.

[bytebear]

I think SS should be 1) optional and 2) set up like a 401k or a retirement account, maybe something like a Roth IRA.   I don't like the idea of the money being locked down until retirement, or being sucked back into the system if you die early, or don't have a proper heir.  I generally don't like the idea of schemes to redistribute wealth.   You earn it, you keep it.  Just make it worthwhile to invest it, and make it easier for people not financially savvy to invest it decently.  Even if it's just a basic S&P500 account.

As for medicare, send it down to the states and let them figure out their own programs.  We were better off overall before Obamacare, so just reverse it.  Some states will over spend or under cover, but that's too bad.  Not having a limit on funding is a real problem, and states have to learn to live within their tax means, unlike the Federal govt, who can print money, and rack up trillions in debt.

 

[Tyme]

I think four things need to be done: eliminate the tax cap, raise retirement age, eliminate social security for those who make over x and increase the payroll tax.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Tyme

[Guest]

1 hour ago, zil said:

His avatar is more blurple than purple, I think.

You must read a lot of Dr Seuss.

[zil]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

You must read a lot of Dr Seuss.

Nope, just a common distinction for inks - blues, blurples, and purples.

[NeuroTypical]

Bytebear scores a point.  

Source: https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending_analysis

[anatess2]

14 hours ago, Tyme said:

I think four things need to be done: eliminate the tax cap, raise retirement age, eliminate social security for those who make over x and increase the payroll tax.

Paul Ryan, et. al., is about the only guy in Congress who made a sensible proposition to SS.  One of the reasons I backed Romney.  Ryan's plan got shut down very quickly.

There's only one solution to SS - give the money back to the people.  You are relying on a government that can't even keep illegal immigrants out of the US, and you give them the power to manage your money.  Increasing payroll tax, eliminating tax cap... those are going the opposite direction, giving more money to the Feds to manage.

Edited November 20, 2018 by anatess2