VA governor in "blackface" controversy

[NightSG]

17 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 The elephant in the room - donning blackface or a KKK costume does not make you a racist in the same manner that donning a Japanese Kimono doesn't make you Japanese.

Unlike simply wearing a kimono, though, deliberately and publicly mocking a race shows extremely poor judgment and a strong probability of bias against that race. Not appropriate for a public official. 

[anatess2]

16 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Unlike simply wearing a kimono, though, deliberately and publicly mocking a race shows extremely poor judgment and a strong probability of bias against that race. Not appropriate for a public official. 

Wearing blackface is not mocking a race any more than wearing a Kimono is mocking the Japanese.

[Guest Godless]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Wearing blackface is not mocking a race any more than wearing a Kimono is mocking the Japanese.

That's literally how blackface originated.

[NightSG]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Wearing blackface is not mocking a race any more than wearing a Kimono is mocking the Japanese.

Seriously?  People wear kimonos because they're comfortable or because they're participating in an activity of Japanese origin where it's traditionally worn.  Nobody puts on blackface because a heavy layer of greas is comfortable, and I'm sure wearing blackface to an African American event would start a riot.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Godless said:

That's literally how blackface originated.

Even if you (generic, not @Godless) don't think it's racist, a TON of people do think it's racist. So it's best to adapt to new social customs, not do it, and move on. You save yourself, and everyone a massive headache. 

 

[anatess2]

17 hours ago, NightSG said:

Seriously?  People wear kimonos because they're comfortable or because they're participating in an activity of Japanese origin where it's traditionally worn.  Nobody puts on blackface because a heavy layer of greas is comfortable, and I'm sure wearing blackface to an African American event would start a riot.

Uhm, people wear Kimonos because it's a COSTUME party or contest or stage show.  So, I guess these kids are racists.  Yeah, I guess in America.  Where everybody gets offended over every little thing.

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by anatess2

[anatess2]

17 hours ago, Godless said:

That's literally how blackface originated.

Blackface LITERALLY originated as THEATER MAKE-UP for non-blacks to portray blacks in Theater.  Of course, black people in those Jim Crow days don't hob-nob in high society with non-black people, so theater blacks also don't.  I mean, why would theater have their black characters acting like anything but blacks?

See this guy in the picture below?  He's not sexist.  

[Just_A_Guy]

21 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Uhm, people wear Kimonos because it's a COSTUME party or contest or stage show.  So, I guess these kids are racists.  

Sure.  Just ask Keziah Daum.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[anatess2]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Sure.  Just ask Keziah Daum.

Let's do that. 

Hey Keziah, are you racist?  How about them Covington boys... they racists?

Ok, let's wait for Keziah to answer.

Edited February 8, 2019 by anatess2

[Guest Godless]

49 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Blackface LITERALLY originated as THEATER MAKE-UP for non-blacks to portray blacks in Theater.  Of course, black people in those Jim Crow days don't hob-nob in high society with non-black people, so theater blacks also don't.  I mean, why would theater have their black characters acting like anything but blacks?

Frederick Douglass had this to say about blackface minstrels in the 19th Century:

"the filthy scum of white society, who have stolen from us a complexion denied to them by nature, in which to make money, and pander to the corrupt taste of their white fellow-citizens."

White society back then was inherently racist. The kind of racist that would incline people to turn themselves into ridiculous caricatures of black people rather than, you know, hire black actors.

Quote

See this guy in the picture below?  He's not sexist.  

I think this may be a more accurate Asian comparison of how black people were portrayed by the minstrels.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what a white dude and a Filipino lady think is or isn't racist. Black society has deemed blackface to be racist for over 100 years. That should end the debate right there.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Godless

[anatess2]

43 minutes ago, Godless said:

Black society has deemed blackface to be racist for over 100 years. 

In the same way that some White Dude from Harvard deemed calling Asians Oriental as racist?

What Filipino ladies think matters.  Because... they don't publish "Racist Rules for Everyday Use" and "Every Politically Correct Law To Live By" books for grade school.   And you know... there are REAL RACISTS out there.  My Filipino lady friend's dogs got beheaded by one.

Edited February 8, 2019 by anatess2

[Guest Godless]

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

In the same way that some White Dude from Harvard deemed calling Asians Oriental as racist?

I'm not sure where you're going with that. I don't give a flying fornication what some Harvard yuppie thinks is racist. I think I made that pretty clear in my last post. 

Quote

What Filipino ladies think matters.  Because... they don't publish "Racist Rules for Everyday Use" and "Every Politically Correct Law To Live By" books for grade school.   And you know... there are REAL RACISTS out there.

I understand that as an immigrant to our country, you may not be familiar with the full context of blackface, Jim Crow, and how damaging those depictions were to black Americans. That's why we're having this discussion. 

Those Virginia dudes, on the other hand, should have known better.

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, Godless said:

I'm not sure where you're going with that. I don't give a flying fornication what some Harvard yuppie thinks is racist. I think I made that pretty clear in my last post. 

Hence the question.  Who made the rule that posing as a black person is racist?  Because if you ask progressive Asians they think being called Oriental is racist and they'll roast you for it when such "rule" was started by a white Harvard professor without any input from Asians and that made Asians in university think, oh yeah, that's racist for no other reason than they were taught to think so.

 

Quote

I understand that as an immigrant to our country, you may not be familiar with the full context of blackface, Jim Crow, and how damaging those depictions were to black Americans. That's why we're having this discussion. 

Slavery, segregation were damaging to black Americans.  Yet today, people think blackface is damaging to black Americans in the same breath that they posit that black Americans are not capable of owning IDs or getting high enough SATs to get into university.

 

Quote

Those Virginia dudes, on the other hand, should have known better.

So they're racists.  And Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal - who make pretending to be black a lifestyle - are not.

Edited February 8, 2019 by anatess2

[Guest Godless]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Hence the question.  Who made the rule that posing as a black person is racist?

At the very earliest, Frederick Douglass. Hence the quote I posted. 

Quote

So they're racists.  And Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal - who make pretending to be black a lifestyle - are not.

Spoiler alert: I don't like Shaun King. I don't know who Rachel Dolezal is.

Edit: nevermind. I didn't recognize the name, but I recognized her face immediately when I googled her. Yeah, she can rot in the obscurity that she put herself in.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Godless

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, Godless said:

I don't know who Rachel Dolezal is.

There is a special site that can tell you who she is.

Why can a man pretend to be a woman (or vice versa) and we're all supposed to accept the ridiculous fraud at face value, but Rachel Dolezal—excuse me, I mean Nkechi Amare Diallo—gets crucified for pretending to be black? If she had pretended to be a man instead, all the people now hating on her would instead be on "his" side. Lunacy.

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, Godless said:

At the very earliest, Frederick Douglass. Hence the quote I posted. 

Spoiler alert: I don't like Shaun King. I don't know who Rachel Dolezal is.

Edit: nevermind. I didn't recognize the name, but I recognized her face immediately when I googled her. Yeah, she can rot in the obscurity that she put herself in.

Good for you.  SOCIETY - the same ones who crucify people and kill their livelihood and careers due to some arbitrary racist rules - don't agree with you.  Don't get me wrong.  Northam doesn't belong on that governor's chair.  But if he loses his chair because he wore black face instead of losing his chair because he promoted infanticide.... THAT'S MESSED UP.

[Vort]

4 hours ago, Godless said:

Yeah, she can rot in the obscurity that she put herself in.

If only she had put herself in obscurity. Sadly, her problem is quite the opposite.

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:19 AM, anatess2 said:

Because if you ask progressive Asians they think being called Oriental is racist and they'll roast you for it when such "rule" was started by a white Harvard professor without any input from Asians and that made Asians in university think, oh yeah, that's racist for no other reason than they were taught to think so.

This is an interesting thing that is very difficult to address at times from someone who does not have an Asian background or heritage.  I know of this movement where that term is considered racist.  At the same time I have others that feel the term Asian as applied to those from Eastern Asia can be racist (mostly Europe where Asian can also be discussing those from the rest of Asia as well such as India and Pakistan in some instances) when applied in general terms.  I have a Son in law who scoffs at the idea and prefers the term Oriental in some contexts. 

It gets very confusing at times to try to relate the correct terminology that one prefers. 

I DO try to respect people's wishes though.  If they feel that my terminology when talking to them is racist I attempt to change how I address them to a more acceptable fashion.

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:34 AM, anatess2 said:

Good for you.  SOCIETY - the same ones who crucify people and kill their livelihood and careers due to some arbitrary racist rules - don't agree with you.  Don't get me wrong.  Northam doesn't belong on that governor's chair.  But if he loses his chair because he wore black face instead of losing his chair because he promoted infanticide.... THAT'S MESSED UP.

I think that the picture represents an absolutely horrible representation of ideas.  It seems to indicate a HIGH level of racism and racist thought and I do not know why, even several decades ago, why anyone thought that such an appearance would be appropriate.

HOWEVER, from what I'm seeing it appears more to me to be a political smear job to try to get a clean sweep of the governors office to try to seize it in some way by the opposite party.  In some ways it seems far more politically motivated by the other party than actually shock by them (and some of them probably are guilty of the same things, they just currently have them hidden).

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

This is an interesting thing that is very difficult to address at times from someone who does not have an Asian background or heritage.  I know of this movement where that term is considered racist.  At the same time I have others that feel the term Asian as applied to those from Eastern Asia can be racist (mostly Europe where Asian can also be discussing those from the rest of Asia as well such as India and Pakistan in some instances) when applied in general terms.  I have a Son in law who scoffs at the idea and prefers the term Oriental in some contexts. 

It gets very confusing at times to try to relate the correct terminology that one prefers. 

I DO try to respect people's wishes though.  If they feel that my terminology when talking to them is racist I attempt to change how I address them to a more acceptable fashion.

I think that the picture represents an absolutely horrible representation of ideas.  It seems to indicate a HIGH level of racism and racist thought and I do not know why, even several decades ago, why anyone thought that such an appearance would be appropriate.

See here JJ... you completely have just used the word Racist as something that is completely removed from Racism.

 

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

HOWEVER, from what I'm seeing it appears more to me to be a political smear job to try to get a clean sweep of the governors office to try to seize it in some way by the opposite party.  In some ways it seems far more politically motivated by the other party than actually shock by them (and some of them probably are guilty of the same things, they just currently have them hidden).

Nice try.  Republicans are hands off on this one.  They're just popping their popcorn, enjoying the spectacle of the left eating itself. 

"Guilty of the same things... currently have them hidden."  That is not even funny.  Blackface Northam won the election by painting Ed Gillespie as a racist.  Think about the gall of such a campaign that ran an ad with a big truck waving the Confederate Flag chasing down minority kids to portray Gillespie as racist.  THINK ABOUT THAT.

[pwrfrk]

I keep hearing all this garbage about how this race is offended by whites and that race is offended by whites....us white folk are offending everyone it seems.  Yet no one seems to care if anyone does anything racist towards us whiteys.

Personally, I think it's awful that racism still exists.  But we gotta be realistic about it- any time there is any kind of a difference between anyone, there will be bigotry and segregation. 

As for Northam & the school year book thing, he wasn't in the picture, he did not compile or edit the page or the book, and that wasn't a Klan robe.  It was nothing more than a cheap excuse for a cheaply made costume.  People are just looking for a fight.

Say, isn't there a congresswoman somewhere that is or was a member of the priginal Black Panthers?  You know the black gang that went around robing banks to fund their fight against America....?