Why More?

[Follower]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

[avatar4321]

Because we cannot be saved by the revelations to others. we can only be saved with our own revelation.

The fact that God commanded Noah to build an Ark, or the Children of Israel to keep the Law of Moses is useful to understand, but unless we have the commandments God gives us now, how are we to survive?

The Lord knew what would happen in the last days. He knew the attacks that would be on the Bible. So in His foresight He brought forth a second witness of Jesus Christ. So that both would stand together as a testimony in this day an age. The say will soon come when it is much more difficult to believe the Bible without being a believer of the Book of Mormon as well. Thats just the way society is heading.

[Pa Pa]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

Joseph was not looking for more it just came. When I found the church I was not looking for another church...I was happy the way things were. Sometimes things find us weather we are looking or not. So to answer your question...We don't need more we just have more.

Pa Pa

By the way the Jews see it as you do...They believe that the OT is enough.

[Guest moreholinessgiveme]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

I cringe when people phrase things this way. It's not "Mormons" who feel the need for "additional revelation" and "additional scripture" -- it's our Father in Heaven who deems that such is needed.

"Mormons" don't see the need for it, God sees the need for it.

God sees the need for it because His children today need light and knowledge and guidance, through a living Prophet, every bit as much as they did in the days of Adam or Moses or Abraham.

[siouxz72]

And if we stopped after each time the Bible said not to add to it, we'd have nothing beyond Deuteronomy. :)

[snipe123]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

On what basis do you believe the Bible is all we need? The Bible does not say that anywhere...While it is true that MEN are forbidden from adding to or taking away from Gods word, (and a puishment for men who do, is described in Revelation22:18-19 as one example...another was mentioned in the above post in Deuteronomy) The Bible has absolutely nothing to say at all about God doing so...Certainly this restriction is not placed on God...God can add to his word in the same way he always has, which is to inspire a prophet to preach or write his words...I repeat...Nowhere in The Bible does it say that GOD cannot add to his word...If GOd provides more of his word for us through revelation then surely he must consider it profitable, otherwise he would either not say anything or if he did say something it would be "...read what I said in verse..." and then go quiet. Gods word is very much alive in this church in the words of ancient and modern prophets...

[Doctor Steuss]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

Good afternoon Follower. I guess my answer can only be expressed in questions (for which I apologize…)

Why not? Why the need after Moses? Why the need after Isaiah? Why the need after Christ (i.e. Paul)?

From an LDS perspective, in many ways “the Bible” (the reason for quotes is because there have been so many different “Bibles” through the centuries) is enough. The Book of Mormon acts as a “second witness” to “the Bible.”

There is much more we need to know concerning “life and godliness,” and thank goodness we have the eternities to learn it all. However, G-d has provided “line-upon-line…” here for us. The continued revelations are additional lines, and I hope that once I have grasped them that I will eventually get “another line” (why does it feel like I just made a drug reference?).

[MorningStar]

Good afternoon Follower. I guess my answer can only be expressed in questions (for which I apologize…)

Why not? Why the need after Moses? Why the need after Isaiah? Why the need after Christ (i.e. Paul)?

From an LDS perspective, in many ways “the Bible” (the reason for quotes is because there have been so many different “Bibles” through the centuries) is enough. The Book of Mormon acts as a “second witness” to “the Bible.”

There is much more we need to know concerning “life and godliness,” and thank goodness we have the eternities to learn it all. However, G-d has provided “line-upon-line…” here for us. The continued revelations are additional lines, and I hope that once I have grasped them that I will eventually get “another line” (why does it feel like I just made a drug reference?).

I feel the same as you. I wouldn't want revelation to end, especially in the last days.

[siouxz72]

” (why does it feel like I just made a drug reference?).

tee hee! ...you know why!

But seriously, what Doctor Steuss and Morning Star say is so right. We wouldn't want that continued revelation to end. Especially not now. And having a Heavenly Father who loves us and wants us to learn all we can in this life, it makes sense that He would continue to give us "more".

[19nazzy]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

I'd rather not write a long winding post so I'll just say this and ask you to ponder on it:

If the Bible was perfect and explained everything and as such we didn't have a need for additional scriptures, why are there thousands of different churches based on the Bible? Shouldn't there only be just one (or very few) ?

[snipe123]

I'd rather not write a long winding post so I'll just say this and ask you to ponder on it:

If the Bible was perfect and explained everything and as such we didn't have a need for additional scriptures, why are there thousands of different churches based on the Bible? Shouldn't there only be just one (or very few) ?

And I would add to this great question: Why would ther be thousands of commentaries written which tell us what to believe the Bible is saying?

[Follower]

Because we cannot be saved by the revelations to others. we can only be saved with our own revelation.

In the examples you cite, however, people WERE saved by the revelations given to others. Noah's family was saved because they believed the revelation given to Noah. The Israelites were saved from Egypt because they believed the revelation given to Moses.

The fact that God commanded Noah to build an Ark, or the Children of Israel to keep the Law of Moses is useful to understand, but unless we have the commandments God gives us now, how are we to survive?

My argument would be that we DO have the commandments that God gives us now.

The Lord knew what would happen in the last days. He knew the attacks that would be on the Bible. So in His foresight He brought forth a second witness of Jesus Christ. So that both would stand together as a testimony in this day an age. The say will soon come when it is much more difficult to believe the Bible without being a believer of the Book of Mormon as well. Thats just the way society is heading.

So, are you saying that the revelation of Jesus Christ was insufficient? Is He not a sufficient and well-qualified High Priest (Hebrews 4:14) appointed by God (Hebrews 5:5) who is able to grant grace and mercy to help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16)? If in Jesus we are able to gain a completely accurate picture of the nature of God (Hebrews 1:3ff, John. 1:18 and many others), there is no better revelation needed. Also, if the new revelation given was so important, why are huge chunks of it plagiarized and hijacked from the Bible?

The problem with Mormonism is that, even while plagiarizing the Bible, it stands in contradiction to the Bible. If Mormonism wanted less conflict with the Christian community, it should be honest about its opinions concerning the Bible instead of claiming to believe and accept what the Bible says.

Tread very, very carefully, Follower. This forum is for congenial discussions of LDS belief. The Book of Mormon contains ancient Hebrew Scripture also found in the Bible. That is not plagiarism. Nor does the Book of Mormon contradict the Bible. It does, however, clash with certain extra-Biblical and sect-based interpretations.

Do not make any further accusations of dishonesty or you will find your tenure here to be dramatically shortened.

Finally, you've been asked several pointed questions. I suggest you answer them. Only the moderators are allowed to monologue here.

Honos

[bunnzy]

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?

5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have acursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.

6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

11 For I command aall men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.

14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in one. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever- 2 Nephi 29: 3-14

[snipe123]

In the examples you cite, however, people WERE saved by the revelations given to others. Noah's family was saved because they believed the revelation given to Noah. The Israelites were saved from Egypt because they believed the revelation given to Moses.

My argument would be that we DO have the commandments that God gives us now.

So, are you saying that the revelation of Jesus Christ was insufficient? Is He not a sufficient and well-qualified High Priest (Hebrews 4:14) appointed by God (Hebrews 5:5) who is able to grant grace and mercy to help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16)? If in Jesus we are able to gain a completely accurate picture of the nature of God (Hebrews 1:3ff, John. 1:18 and many others), there is no better revelation needed. Also, if the new revelation given was so important, why are huge chunks of it plagiarized and hijacked from the Bible?

The problem with Mormonism is that, even while plagiarizing the Bible, it stands in contradiction to the Bible. If Mormonism wanted less conflict with the Christian community, it should be honest about its opinions concerning the Bible instead of claiming to believe and accept what the Bible says.

I noticed you did not respond to my point... Do you actually believe that God cannot add to his word? The Book of Mormon does not contradict The Bible, unless you believe the anti-mormon literature you used to formulate your opinion...Have you ever actually studied The Book of Mormon? I read the Bible every day, and I find that they fit rather nicely together...It might contradict your interpretation of The Bible or Book of Mormon, and that's a different thing all together...As to the plagerism idea, you probably have not read much Mormon scholarship on that subject have you? Do you realize how many comparitive studies have been done on this subject? Are you familiar with the conclusions on both sides of this argument, or just the anti-mormon view?

Now I do have a sincere question for you...Why do you personally, believe that The Holy Bible is the word of God? I am not challenging that it is...I just want to know how you personally came to believe it is his word...?

[Josie]

Follower: "The problem with Mormonism is that, even while plagiarizing the Bible, it stands in contradiction to the Bible. If Mormonism wanted less conflict with the Christian community, it should be honest about its opinions concerning the Bible instead of claiming to believe and accept what the Bible says."

Thirteenth Article of Faith: Article 8

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

I think we are very honest in our beliefs of the Bible and infact we spend 2 years out of every 4 studying the Bible. 1 year on the Old Testament and 1 year on the New Testament.

As far as why do we accept or want modern day revelation? Well, I think we need revelation today just as much as it was needed in the time of Noah, Moses, or any other time you wish to name in the Bible. It is a blessing to me to know that God loves us enough to give us the guidance to get through what is going on on this planet in this dispensation. God knows that there was not enough revelation to get us through what we have faced and continue to have to face in the world as it now stands. He knew we would need more and he has and continues to give it to us as we need it.

Josie

[Doctor Steuss]

[…] Also, if the new revelation given was so important, why are huge chunks of it plagiarized and hijacked from the Bible?

The problem with Mormonism is that, even while plagiarizing the Bible, it stands in contradiction to the Bible.

I’m wondering if you are aware of how much the New Testament "plagiarizes" from the Old Testament and many apocryphal sources. I’m also wondering if you have any form of a grasp on what the definition of “plagiarism” is. I suggest you look it up. The portions within the Book of Mormon that “plagiarize” the Bible give a source for the words. Attribution is given to the Author, G-d. Then again, maybe Christ was plagiarizing the book of Tobit, Enoch, Isaiah, Psalms, Job, etc.

Why are there chunks plagiarized and hijacked from the Torah within the New Testament?

Your qualm is silly at best, and hypocritical at worst.

If Mormonism wanted less conflict with the Christian community, it should be honest about its opinions concerning the Bible instead of claiming to believe and accept what the Bible says.

What opinions would these be? How have we not been “honest” about our opinions regarding “the Bible”? Are you aware that the majority of Joseph’s sermons came from the Bible (he hardly ever taught from the Book of Mormon)? Are you aware that as LDS, we work on a four year Sunday School study schedule, and two of those years are devoted to the Bible? Are you aware that the Bible is amongst the canonized "standard works" of the LDS?

I would hate to think you are bearing false witness here.

[MorningStar]

Follower, if you want to debate, you can visit www.mormonapologetics.org

:)

[mnn727]

The problem with Mormonism is that, even while plagiarizing the Bible, it stands in contradiction to the Bible. If Mormonism wanted less conflict with the Christian community, it should be honest about its opinions concerning the Bible instead of claiming to believe and accept what the Bible says.

How many years have you spent studying the Book of Mormon yourself? for that matter how many times have you read the Bible from start to finish.

Be honest with yourself at least, you've never read the Book of Mormon have you? you're just repeating what someone (person, book, website) told you

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

I see it as an ongoing relationship with Heavenly Father. When I served as a missionary for two years in France, my parents wrote me regularly for the entire two years. If they had written me only for the first six months, and then stopped, I could have re-read the letters from those first six months for the rest of my mission, but I am glad my parents kept writing.

I love the Bible, and indeed the Gospels are my favorites of all the Scriptures, but I am glad God sees fit to continue communicating with us.

Why would anyone not want additional revelation?

Daniel

[tubaloth]

Because of time limitations, I can only give a condensed or abbreviated synopsis of the three- hour conversation that followed. I began by asking, "May I proceed, sir, on the assumption that you are a Christian?"

"I am."

"I assume that you believe in the Bible—the Old and New Testaments?"

"I do!"

"Do you believe in prayer?"

"I do!"

"You say that my belief that God spoke to a man in this age is fantastic and absurd?"

"To me it is."

"Do you believe that God ever did speak to anyone?"

"Certainly, all through the Bible we have evidence of that."

"Did he speak to Adam?"

"Yes."

"To Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, and to others of the prophets?"

"I believe he spoke to each of them."

"Do you believe that contact between God and man ceased when Jesus appeared on the earth?"

"Certainly not. Such communication reached its climax, its apex at that time."

"Do you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God?"

"He was."

"Do you believe, sir, that after the resurrection of Christ, God ever spoke to any man?"

He thought for a moment and then said, "I remember one Saul of Tarsus who was going down to Damascus to persecute the saints and who had a vision, was stricken blind, in fact, and heard a voice."

"Whose voice did he hear?"

"Well," he said, "the voice said `I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.'"

"Do you believe that actually took place?"

"I do."

"Then, my Lord"—that is the way we address judges in the British commonwealth—"my Lord, I am submitting to you in all seriousness that it was standard procedure in Bible times for God to talk to men."

"I think I will admit that, but it stopped shortly after the first century of the Christian era."

"Why do you think it stopped?"

"I can't say."

"You think that God hasn't spoken since then?"

"Not to my knowledge."

"May I suggest some possible reasons why he has not spoken. Perhaps it is because he cannot. He has lost the power."

He said, "Of course that would be blasphemous."

"Well, then, if you don't accept that, perhaps he doesn't speak to men because he doesn't love us anymore. He is no longer interested in the affairs of men."

"No," he said, "God loves all men, and he is no respecter of persons."

"Well, then, if you don't accept that he loves us, then the only other possible answer as I see it is that we don't need him. We have made such rapid strides in education and science that we don't need God any more."

And then he said, and his voice trembled as he thought of impending war, "Mr. Brown, there never was a time in the history of the world when the voice of God was needed as it is needed now. Perhaps you can tell me why he doesn't speak."

My answer was, "He does speak, he has spoken; but men need faith to hear him."

(President Hugh B. Brown, Conference Report, October 1967, Third Day—Morning Meeting 121.)

Follower what reason do you feel it is?

[Steele]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so bear with me as I get acquainted with everyone and the MO of this forum. As I was browsing all of the topics, I thought about this question. Why? Why do Mormons see the need for additional revelation? From my understanding, the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning "life and godliness." If this is true, why do Mormons see the need for additional Scriptures?

Hey Follower,

Why do YOU think it would be important to receive revelation (i.e., personal, family, and/or church-wide)?

If God is the same yesterday, today and forever, why would He change the way He instructs His people here on Earth?

What is the role of a prophet?

If there were prophets long ago, then why not today?

Do you have everything in your life figured out, or could you use some helpful hints from a special Someone who happens to know the end from the beginning?

[Follower]

Joseph was not looking for more it just came. When I found the church I was not looking for another church...I was happy the way things were. Sometimes things find us weather we are looking or not. So to answer your question...We don't need more we just have more.

If you don't need more, would you be content to simplify your religion and get rid of the excess?

By the way the Jews see it as you do...They believe that the OT is enough.

No, I don't see it the way Jews do, I believe there is more needed than the OT.

[Follower]

On what basis do you believe the Bible is all we need? The Bible does not say that anywhere...

I do not believe that I said the Bible is all that we need, for there are many other things that humans need to survive.

I said that "the books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation are sufficient to teach us all we need to know concerning 'life and godliness'."

This idea comes from 2 Peter 1:3 and 2 Timothy 3:16. If you look at the 2 Peter passage, he uses the past tense, saying to his readers, "His [Christ's] divine power HAS GIVEN to us all things that pertain to life and godliness." So my question is, if we've already been given all that we need, what new knowledge empowering God's people for life and godliness has been given to us through the Mormon church that isn't mentioned in the Bible?

[Follower]

Good afternoon Follower. I guess my answer can only be expressed in questions (for which I apologize…)

Why not? Why the need after Moses? Why the need after Isaiah?

Because (1) neither Moses nor Isaiah, through their writings, were able to give an accurate description of the nature of God (though Jesus was, Hebrews 1:1ff), nor were they (through giving the words of God) able to make perfect those who heard and believed their words (Hebrews7:18-19, 22; 8:6-13).

Why the need after Christ (i.e. Paul)?

Because God was setting up His church, and the people of God needed to know how to function within that context just as the Israelites needed to know how to function in the context in which God had placed them.

From an LDS perspective, in many ways “the Bible” (the reason for quotes is because there have been so many different “Bibles” through the centuries) is enough. The Book of Mormon acts as a “second witness” to “the Bible.”

Why is there a need for a second witness? Why did that second witness come thousands of years later if it was so necessary? Don't the inspired writers give witness to their own writings, as Peter witnessed to the truth of what Paul said in 2 Peter 3:15ff?

There is much more we need to know concerning “life and godliness,” and thank goodness we have the eternities to learn it all. However, G-d has provided “line-upon-line…” here for us. The continued revelations are additional lines, and I hope that once I have grasped them that I will eventually get “another line” (why does it feel like I just made a drug reference?).

What do we need to know? Are you questioning the power of Christ, who is able to "save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through Him? (Hebrews 7:25) Are these words in the book of Hebrews not true anymore?

[Follower]

I'd rather not write a long winding post so I'll just say this and ask you to ponder on it:

If the Bible was perfect and explained everything and as such we didn't have a need for additional scriptures

See the above post where I said that the Bible is NOT all that we need, and that there are many more things humans need for survival. Christians also need to be led by the Holy Spirit (yes, I know you have a different understanding of the Holy Spirit), which never contradicts His Word.

why are there thousands of different churches based on the Bible? Shouldn't there only be just one (or very few) ?

So, you think adding to the Scriptures will reduce the numbers of churches? Historically, even within Mormonism there have been factions and splinter groups who have departed from the Mormon teachings to begin new and different kinds of churches.