Have You Been Saved?

[Shoofly]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

[mnn727]

One thing to remember along with your questions is that salvation and exaltaion are 2 different things.

1. usually yes (see Dallin H. Oaks, “Have You Been Saved?,” Ensign, May 1998, pg 55)

2. no

3. no

4 not for salvation (which is a free gift to all mankind - see D&C 76), but yes for exaltation

[NeuroTypical]

I'm by no means an expert, but I'll add my two cents...

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

No. Being saved means accepting Christ as your Savior, availing yourself of His atoning sacrifice, so you can go to heaven. The difference between LDS and other Christians, is that we believe being saved is a good start - there's other stuff we should shoot for.

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

LDS teach and believe this is true. From the Gospel Principles manual on baptism:

How Should We Be Baptized?

There is only one correct mode of baptism. Jesus revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith that a person having the proper priesthood authority to baptize “shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism. … Then shall he immerse him or her in the water, and come forth again out of the water” (D&C 20:73–74). Immersion is necessary. The Apostle Paul taught that being immersed in water and coming out again is symbolic of death and resurrection. Our sins are washed away when we are baptized. After baptism we start a new life. Paul said:

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Romans 6:3–5).

Baptism by immersion by a person having the proper authority is the only acceptable way of being baptized.

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

Jesus said it in the Bible, and in the BoM: “Whoso believeth in me, and is baptized … shall inherit the kingdom of God. And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned”

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

Exaltation is the highest form of salvation we can achieve.

My two cents.

LM

[fish4kitty]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

1. Yes, do to most LDS shoot for exaltation not just getting to Heaven

2.No

3.No

4.Is needed for both. You cannot get to heaven lest you go through Jesus first.

I put no on 2&3 due to It says very clearly that all a man need to do is believe and they shall be saved. No different than the thief on the cross next to Jesus.

f4k

[the_jason]

I'm unsure as to why anyone would answer No for questions 2 and 3. If baptism wasn't required, why was Jesus baptized? He had no sins to be remitted. As far as proper authority, "And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron." (Hebrews 5:4)

Salvation and Exaltation are the same. Immortality is given to all men freely. Salvation is earned.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

[ztodd]

When you say we earn salvation, that doesn't mean we deserve salvation because of our good works. That's simply not true. We are all sinners and have all fallen short of the glory of God...the Savior is the only one who lived perfectly and deserves exaltation. The way I look at it, if we are to received salvation / exaltation, we must count on the Savior who earned it for us. He asked us to show forth good works and obey his commandments to prove that we follow him and trust him to save us from our sins.

[the_jason]

That's fine, but has nothing to do with what I was saying. The thread is about baptism, and mnn727 said salvation was a free gift to all men. I was clarifying that it's immortality that is a free gift. Salvation/exaltation has to be earned.

[MorningStar]

One thing to remember along with your questions is that salvation and exaltaion are 2 different things.

1. usually yes (see Dallin H. Oaks, “Have You Been Saved?,” Ensign, May 1998, pg 55)

2. no

3. no

4 not for salvation (which is a free gift to all mankind - see D&C 76), but yes for exaltation

Darn, you stole my answer. That is an awesome talk by Elder Oaks. :)

[Dale]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

1.Yes. Evangelicals think of only being saved from hell. LDS don't tend to think of salvation from outer-darkness, but salvation to the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial kingdom includes that. LDS tend to think of salvation to the Celestial kingdom, or exaltation. But it's an important definition of saved that neglects the basic scriptural idea of being saved.

2.To go to a lesser kingdom it's not my understanding that baptism is essential to that salvation. It's regarded as essential only to go to the Celestial kingdom.

3.I wouldn't think it is needed for salvation from outer darkness. but it would be needed for a specialized type of salvation that only the baptized would get.

4. The Telestial inhabitants will have the ministry of the Holy Ghost. I don't think the LDS church see's baptism by proxy as being needed for any kingdom, but the Celestial.

[MorningStar]

From the Bible Dictionary:

From a Greek word meaning to dip or immerse. Baptism in water is the introductory ordinance of the gospel, and must be followed by baptism of the Spirit in order to be complete. As one of the ordinances of the gospel, it is associated with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, and the laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Baptism has always been practiced whenever the gospel of Jesus Christ has been on the earth and has been taught by men holding the holy priesthood who could administer the ordinances. Although there is some obscurity in the Bible as to the antiquity of baptism before the time of Jesus, from latter-day revelation it is clear that Adam was baptized (Moses 6: 64-68) and that the patriarchs and prophets since his time have taught the gospel and administered the ordinances that pertain to the gospel. This includes both water baptism and the laying on of hands for the Holy Ghost (Moses 8: 23-24). The Book of Mormon shows also that baptism was taught and practiced long before the coming of Jesus Christ (2 Ne. 31; Mosiah 18: 8-17). In the N.T. Paul speaks of the children of Israel being baptized by Moses “in the cloud and in the sea” (1 Cor. 10: 1-4). Noah and Abraham are spoken of as “preachers of righteousness,” which means they taught the gospel and administered its ordinances (Gal. 3: 8; Heb. 4: 1-2; 2 Pet. 2: 5; cf. Moses 8: 23-24).

Baptism symbolizes death, burial, and resurrection, and can only be done by immersion. It is clear that John the Baptist and Philip baptized in that manner (Matt. 3: 16; Acts 8: 37-39; Rom. 6: 1-6; Col. 2: 12; D&C 20: 72-74; D&C 128: 12-13). Any other method is not baptism.

We learn from latter-day revelation, which confirms the teaching in the Bible, that the Aaronic Priesthood has authority to baptize with water, whereas the Melchizedek Priesthood has power to baptize not only with water but also to confer the Holy Ghost (D&C 13; JS-H 1: 68-72). We note also that John the Baptist, who had the Aaronic Priesthood, recognized this distinction and used it to illustrate one of the differences between his mission and the mission of Jesus, who had the priesthood of Melchizedek (Matt. 3: 11; Mark 1: 8; Luke 3: 15-16; John 1: 25-33; cf. Acts 8: 5-25).

Baptism is not optional if one wishes the fullness of salvation. Jesus said a person must be born of water and of the Spirit (John 3: 3-5). When he sent the twelve apostles forth to teach the gospel he told them that whosoever believed and was baptized would be saved; and whosoever did not believe would be damned (Mark 16: 16). Jesus himself was baptized “to fulfill all righteousness” (Matt. 3: 15; 2 Ne. 31: 4-11). But the Pharisees, being unwilling to accept the gospel “rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized” (Luke 7: 30).

Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the celestial kingdom; it is also the doorway to personal sanctification when followed by the reception of the Holy Ghost.

The age at which baptism should be administered is not specified in the Bible, although it is evident that candidates were to be old enough to be capable of belief and have some understanding. In latter-day revelation we learn that the Lord has set the age at eight years as the time when a person begins to become accountable and can be baptized (D&C 20: 71; D&C 68: 25-28). This was also the age given in O.T. times (JST Gen. 17: 11).

Baptism is a most sacred ordinance, which a person, having received it, can remember throughout life as a reminder of the personal commitment to Jesus Christ. Its symbolism is beautiful, and its consequences ever so desirable. John the Baptist had the signal honor among all men to take the Son of God into the water and baptize him, after which he saw the Holy Ghost descend upon Jesus. By being baptized Jesus obeyed the law himself, and set the example for all mankind.

[MistyAnn]

Have I been saved?

YES!! I've accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord over my life. I should add that I'm a former Mormon.

[Garden Girl]

Well, I've accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord of my life...

I've been baptized...

and I am a Mormon...

Garden Girl

[MistyAnn]

Well, I've accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord of my life...

I've been baptized...

and I am a Mormon...

Garden Girl

I'm glad to hear that. I only hope that it's the Jesus of the Bible, and not the Jesus of Mormonism. The Jesus of Mormonism can't save you from your sins.

Baptism isn't a requirement to be saved, or to go to heaven. It's an outward statement of an inward commitment. There will be people who've been baptized who will go to hell, being baptized isn't what saves you.

[Guest Seraphim]

I'm glad to hear that. I only hope that it's the Jesus of the Bible, and not the Jesus of Mormonism. The Jesus of Mormonism can't save you from your sins.

Baptism isn't a requirement to be saved, or to go to heaven. It's an outward statement of an inward commitment. There will be people who've been baptized who will go to hell, being baptized isn't what saves you.

MistyAnn: Perhaps you're not familiar with the purpose of this board. It's not for debate or proselyting.

Seraphim

[the_jason]

I'm glad to hear that. I only hope that it's the Jesus of the Bible, and not the Jesus of Mormonism. The Jesus of Mormonism can't save you from your sins.

Last I checked there was only one Jesus. Maybe I'm wrong.

[jadams_4040]

I'm unsure as to why anyone would answer No for questions 2 and 3. If baptism wasn't required, why was Jesus baptized? He had no sins to be remitted. As far as proper authority, "And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron." (Hebrews 5:4)

Salvation and Exaltation are the same. Immortality is given to all men freely. Salvation is earned.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

Kinda what i was wondering too. Thats why we do vicarious baptism that will continue thru the millenium. But salvation and exhaltation are differant in L.D.S doctrine, but the same in generic christian.

[Garden Girl]

It's a good thing Seraphim stepped in with Misty Ann... I was about to tell her she was on the wrong board...

Garden Girl

[MorningStar]

I'm glad to hear that. I only hope that it's the Jesus of the Bible, and not the Jesus of Mormonism. The Jesus of Mormonism can't save you from your sins.

Baptism isn't a requirement to be saved, or to go to heaven. It's an outward statement of an inward commitment. There will be people who've been baptized who will go to hell, being baptized isn't what saves you.

Our Jesus and your Jesus could've been best friends. Oh. Actually they are the same person.

[bert10]

That's fine, but has nothing to do with what I was saying. The thread is about baptism, and mnn727 said salvation was a free gift to all men. I was clarifying that it's immortality that is a free gift. Salvation/exaltation has to be earned.

You would err...because it is written both the just and unjust shall be resurrected. So that includes everyone. In order for men to be brought into judgment before God they need to be resurrected.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[bert10]

I'm glad to hear that. I only hope that it's the Jesus of the Bible, and not the Jesus of Mormonism. The Jesus of Mormonism can't save you from your sins.

Baptism isn't a requirement to be saved, or to go to heaven. It's an outward statement of an inward commitment. There will be people who've been baptized who will go to hell, being baptized isn't what saves you.

Misty Ann you bring good points which are errors in the knowledge of the gospel and of God. And on these points hang many errors of the Christians. IF you have left LDS teachings for the Christians teachings...then you have left the better part of the gospel.

Jesus Himself stated that if a man is not born of water and of the Spirit he shall not enter into the kingdom of God. Now whether anyone believes baptism is necessary or not....does not matter....by doing the ordinances as specified by the Lord...one keeps His commandments.

Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.

So whether you believe or not in baptism of the water does not matter. If one does as Christ said...then He shall be saved.

Now So far..... I have not found a single Christian that even knows what Born again means. Every single one of them were born again in their imaginations....for many had the forms of Godliness but they had none of the powers that goes with it.

Many Born again claimed to be sinners which is totally in opposition to the Scriptures which state that He who is born of God sinneth not. These do not hear God in their hearts and neither are they taught of God.

Because they are not taught of God they are not given to Christ. For only they who have Heard and learned of the FAther are given to Christ.

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Again, you have fallen from the truth into deception you need not remain there. Of a truth.....There is not a Christian alive who will enter into heaven without first going into the gospel of repentance and also have learned to walk in the light as Christ is in the light. The blood of Christ shall cleanse those who walk in the light as Christ is in the light. And who but the LDS teach on this light?

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[bert10]

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

I think I shall answer only number 4. Because "exaltation" deals with the gospel of perfection. First one must know what belongs to the gospel of repentance.

What does belong in the gospel of repentance? The answer is given in Hebrews 6:1 -2. These are the thngs we must leave behind when we move unto perfection.

Hebrews 6:1 - THEREFORE leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; 1... not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, 2... and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2 - 3... Of the doctrine of baptisms, and 4... of laying on of hands, and 5... of resurrection of the dead, and 6... of eternal judgment.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What does belong to the gospel of perfection? Well anything that make us unabled to be renewed unto perfection.

Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who 1... were once enlightened, and 2... have tasted of the heavenly gift, and 3... were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 - And 4... have tasted the good word of God, and 5... the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Exaltation cannot be achieved unless one has gone thru the gospel of repentance and also the gospel of perfection..which is tasting [experiencing] the Spiritual aspect of the Celestial kingdom. This is what it means...to receive the promises of Eternal life in the flesh.

PEace be unto you

bert10

[LdsNana]

I think I shall answer only number 4. Because "exaltation" deals with the gospel of perfection. First one must know what belongs to the gospel of repentance.

What does belong in the gospel of repentance? The answer is given in Hebrews 6:1 -2. These are the thngs we must leave behind when we move unto perfection.

Hebrews 6:1 - THEREFORE leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; 1... not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, 2... and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2 - 3... Of the doctrine of baptisms, and 4... of laying on of hands, and 5... of resurrection of the dead, and 6... of eternal judgment.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What does belong to the gospel of perfection? Well anything that make us unabled to be renewed unto perfection.

Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who 1... were once enlightened, and 2... have tasted of the heavenly gift, and 3... were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 - And 4... have tasted the good word of God, and 5... the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Exaltation cannot be achieved unless one has gone thru the gospel of repentance and also the gospel of perfection..which is tasting [experiencing] the Spiritual aspect of the Celestial kingdom. This is what it means...to receive the promises of Eternal life in the flesh.

PEace be unto you

bert10

Hello Bert10,

I enjoy your posts very much. This thread overall is of concern, as I am quite surprised at the general misunderstanding of the doctrine concerning the Fourth Article of Faith, and its application among these great saints.

I really appreciate your bringing these verses of scripture to light from Hebrews. I have spent quite a bit of time studying this doctrine over the past year, beyond the basic understanding that is, and of what I believe, is generally understood among most active lds. This came about because I was challenged strongly by a close associate, who is also an apologist. So, this required greater understanding on my part so that I might be firm in what the spirit had testified to me, and yet was boldly being challenged by asserting great authority in words.

I have taught for many years in the church these very principles and doctrines, with confidence, and so I still feel quite comfortable with my understanding. No, I am even more firm now.

It is my hope that those involved with this thread will re-study this doctrine, and use perhaps, the gospel essentials manual. This is critical doctrine to understand, as it is a saving doctrine of the gospel. Also, if they are able to get to the temple, the clarity there is tremendous, IF you are looking to learn that particular truth.

It is also interesting, that before my encounter I had never heard contrary to what had been 'always' taught. I am amazed that with the internet, etc... I am running into this 'new' way of teaching this doctrine continually. Perhaps, thus the confusion amongst our members now?

If I might ask you one question... would you mind telling me, what is your definition of, as you stated, "to receive the promises of Eternal life in the flesh?"

I would like to discuss your post, but feel that I need a little more clarity in your final conclusion before I do so. Although I could most likely assume, I would prefer clarification. Then I will know that we are in the same place.

Thanks:-)

[bert10]

Hello Bert10,

I enjoy your posts very much. This thread overall is of concern, as I am quite surprised at the general misunderstanding of the doctrine concerning the Fourth Article of Faith, and its application among these great saints.

I really appreciate your bringing these verses of scripture to light from Hebrews. I have spent quite a bit of time studying this doctrine over the past year, beyond the basic understanding that is, and of what I believe, is generally understood among most active lds. This came about because I was challenged strongly by a close associate, who is also an apologist. So, this required greater understanding on my part so that I might be firm in what the spirit had testified to me, and yet was boldly being challenged by asserting great authority in words.

I have taught for many years in the church these very principles and doctrines, with confidence, and so I still feel quite comfortable with my understanding. No, I am even more firm now.

It is my hope that those involved with this thread will re-study this doctrine, and use perhaps, the gospel essentials manual. This is critical doctrine to understand, as it is a saving doctrine of the gospel. Also, if they are able to get to the temple, the clarity there is tremendous, IF you are looking to learn that particular truth.

It is also interesting, that before my encounter I had never heard contrary to what had been 'always' taught. I am amazed that with the internet, etc... I am running into this 'new' way of teaching this doctrine continually. Perhaps, thus the confusion amongst our members now?

If I might ask you one question... would you mind telling me, what is your definition of, as you stated, "to receive the promises of Eternal life in the flesh?"

I would like to discuss your post, but feel that I need a little more clarity in your final conclusion before I do so. Although I could most likely assume, I would prefer clarification. Then I will know that we are in the same place.

Thanks:-)

Receiving the promises of Eternal life. I could refer you to read the ODES OF SOLOMON this is the record of a person who was Quickened [Translated/transfigured] This quickening can last for days...or for thousands of years. This quickening is only partially receiving the power of the resurrection. This is necessary if a person is to meet God in His Glory face to face. Moses was quickened and for the fourty days He was with the Lord....He did not sleep nor eat nor grew tired. So long was his exposure to the glory of God...that Moses continued to glow for 3 days after he left the Lord. He had to wear a vail...because the Israelites were afraid of the Light.

Paul wrote on becoming the Spiritual man....because some the early Christians experienced it and wondered what had happened.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

When we are become the Spiritual man....Christ Himself will come and say..."Ask whatsoever you want and I will do it." This in the past has only been said to the prophets of old because only they moved unto the gospel of perfection in Christ.

So you know...that When Jesus says this to an individual....He knows that this individual will ask according to the will of the Father. When the promises of Eternal life is given to you....for LDS this is exaltation......No one can take your life away from you. You alone are master of your life. And you like the early Christians in order to obtain a better resurrection can opt to die for the glory of God.

Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

You are probably asking yourself why did ABraham and others go to their grave. Well one of the laws of heaven is that is shall be done to you according to your faith.

And so....Ti die in faith.

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

1...These all died in the faith why?

Because they did not receive the promises.

2...What promises?

The promises of Eternal life.

3...Why did they not receive the promises of Eternal life? ..[because they were aware of them].

But having seen them afar off [in a future time]

The great prophets and many patriarchs of old knew about the promises and of Christ and some of them thought that it only applied when Jesus would come. So they saw them afar off.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When you have read the ODES TO SOLOMON [wisdom]...We can discuss this .....Which in it the author says...that He received a body free from pain and afflictions....that His family and friends no longer recognized him. Etc.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Do not worry God will awaken more people and they too shall begin to teach the gospel of perfection. I will tell you this no person can receive these promises until he learns to live the Celestial laws while still on the earth. It would be easier if there were a literal Zion where most of the oppositions to our living the higher laws were removed.

For them who do manages to live in this gospel...God will make them Living Fountains....

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They shall teach this gospel unto others and this gospel is an overcoming gospel which will literally dry the tears of the people of God. It is the power to overcome the world.

And Again no person can do this ...unless He believeth on Jesus as the Scriptures has said [according to the true teachings of Jesus and the Apostles]

John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Also become very familiar with Chapter 11 of Hebrews.

PEace be unto you

bert10

[Traveler]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

I have not yet been saved from sin and I will suffer the wages of sin - which is death. Despite all the foolish claims, I have not yet met anyone that will not suffer death because of sin nor do I believe someone that thinks they are saved has the ability to think and understand anything regarding that which is of spiritual nature. I do believe that I will be saved - but that it is necessare to suffer death as a demonstration of my faith.

The Traveler

[bert10]

I have not yet been saved from sin and I will suffer the wages of sin - which is death. Despite all the foolish claims, I have not yet met anyone that will not suffer death because of sin nor do I believe someone that thinks they are saved has the ability to think and understand anything regarding that which is of spiritual nature. I do believe that I will be saved - but that it is necessare to suffer death as a demonstration of my faith.

The Traveler

Then it shall be done according to your faith if it is in accordance to the will of God.

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

And also no sinner can enter into the kingdom of God. Only they who learn to walk in the light as Christ is in the light will have their sins cleansed by His Blood. and this teaching shall never be made void by false interpretation of the gospel.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

They who die and did not learn to walk in the light As Christ is in the light....shall do so later in Spirit prison where they shall go into the gospel of repentance. This is not hard...there is no escaping the gospel of repentance. Either one does it on the earth or one does in the afterlife. Because no repentance means no forgiveness.

Peace be unto you

bert10