prisonchaplain Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 This seems like as good of a string as any to gather thoughts on a mild controversy in the Evangelical world, over the song, The Reckless Love of God. Granted, it's not a hymn, it's a contemporary worship song. The controversy is over the word "Reckless." Some argue that since God is perfect, and could never be reckless, the song contains false teaching and should not be sung. Others argue that God's love is reckless, from our human perspective, and the song properly captures our being awe-struck by God's love. Thoughts? NeuroTypical 1 Quote
zil2 Posted January 9 Author Report Posted January 9 Quote (of a person or their actions) without thinking or caring about the consequences of an action. "reckless driving" Seems to me the dictionary answers that question for us. prisonchaplain 1 Quote
Carborendum Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 (edited) 9 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: This seems like as good of a string as any to gather thoughts on a mild controversy in the Evangelical world, over the song, The Reckless Love of God. Granted, it's not a hymn, it's a contemporary worship song. The controversy is over the word "Reckless." Some argue that since God is perfect, and could never be reckless, the song contains false teaching and should not be sung. Others argue that God's love is reckless, from our human perspective, and the song properly captures our being awe-struck by God's love. Thoughts? On the one hand, this kind of thing is why our Church has guidelines for the songs sung in worship services. On the other hand, I listened to the song. I was pleasantly surprised. I came into it with prejudices against the Song of Solomon (we absolutely reject the common Christian interpretation). But I liked this song. It seems that the lyrics identify with the mindset of the person singing it. His constant proclamation "I don't deserve (His love and forgiveness)" is an example of what this sinner perceives as a recklessness on G-d's part. The idea of "Oh, how can you love me, a sinner, and keep forgiving me after all I do? That's just irrational (reckless) to me." is the central message. @zil2's definition of "without caring about the consequences" (of loving and forgiving a sinner) fits perfectly. Because Christ has already paid for our sins, He doesn't need to be concerned about the consequences of loving and forgiving the sinner. His judgment is final. And He will not have any negative consequences, Himself, for judging however He feels is appropriate. And to a flawed mortal man, this makes no sense. It seems irrational/reckless (to man's mind). BOTTOM LINE: I like the song and I think it could fill me with inspiration when looked upon in that light. But I would never approve it for Sacrament Meeting, if I were the music director. Edited January 9 by Carborendum prisonchaplain and Vort 1 1 Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 11 hours ago, zil2 said: Seems to me the dictionary answers that question for us. I'll put my thumb on the scale and admit I love and approve of the song. Despite the dictionary, I understand that most perceive RECKLESS as unfavorable. I guess the writer used that common perception to surprise and reel us in. What--God's love is reckless? Ah, but yes, in a sense, it is. Carborendum 1 Quote
Carborendum Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 (edited) I stand all amazed at the love Jesus offers me Confused at the grace that, so fully, He proffers me I tremble to know that, for me, He was crucified That for me, a sinner, He suffered, He bled and died Oh, it is wonderful that He should care for me Enough to die for me Oh, it is wonderful, wonderful to me I marvel that He would descend from His throne, divine To rescue a soul so rebellious and proud as mine That He should extend His great love unto such as I Sufficient to own, to redeem, and to justify Oh, it is wonderful that He should care for me Enough to die for me Oh, it is wonderful, wonderful to me I think of His hands pierced and bleeding to pay the debt Such mercy, such love and devotion can I forget? No, no, I will praise and adore at the mercy seat Until at the glorified throne, I kneel at His feet Oh, it is wonderful that He should care for me Enough to die for me Oh, it is wonderful, wonderful to me Edited January 9 by Carborendum Quote
zil2 Posted January 9 Author Report Posted January 9 54 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: Despite the dictionary, I understand that most perceive RECKLESS as unfavorable. Why do you say "despite the dictionary"? Reckless is unfavorable. There isn't even any grey area. "Without thinking" - never a good thing. I don't believe God ever does anything "without thinking" (or, if you interpret it that way, "without thinking about the consequences"). "Without caring about the consequences" - this is only a good thing if what you are doing is the right thing. I think this is where @Carborendum went - "Do what is right, let the consequence follow..." But as we all know, despite the literal meaning of the dictionary definition, "reckless" is used after the fact to describe something that harmed or came very close to harming someone (often someone who wasn't involved in the reckless behavior - a bystander). NOTE: I'm aware that sometimes the meaning isn't quite so unfavorable when used in the phrase "reckless abandon" - but usually only when the phrase is used to describe something that's not actually going to cause harm (as opposed to when the phrase is used legally). So, like the song, explain away the use of the term, whatever - no skin in the game for me - but obviously, God is never reckless, and I personally don't see how anyone could even consider / imagine that He is / would be. Here's a freebie: If you want to explain it away, use the phrase "poetic license" - the fact is that poetry can successfully turn the meaning of words upside down - for good or ill. Here's an example, a haiku I made about Klaw, my void kitty - who is solid black: Gold eyes in a void Warmth and purring vibrations Blackness fills my heart ...Normally, "blackness" filling one's heart is a bad thing. Hopefully you see that here, I flipped it around. And just so Smoke (my grey tabby) doesn't feel left out, I made a haiku about him, too: Smoke-grey tiger stripes I must go up, Meowmy, up Books crash to the floor SilentOne 1 Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 God is not reckless. His love appears so to us. To use a different example, we are sometimes told that if we really forgive someone, we must forget their offense. I disagree. God can cast our sin as far as the east is from the west because he can always read us, always know when we are double-minded. We can't read others. So, I may forgive someone who cheated me in business, yet never do business with him/her again. So, God may appear to be naive to some, but in reality, He is Almighty. Carborendum 1 Quote
Vort Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 1 hour ago, zil2 said: grey Brit wannabe. Remember, kids: Gray is a color. Grey is a colour. Carborendum, zil2 and mordorbund 1 2 Quote
zil2 Posted January 9 Author Report Posted January 9 46 minutes ago, Vort said: Brit wannabe. Remember, kids: Gray is a color. Grey is a colour. What can I say, I like the look of grey better than I like the look of gray. (And I grew up reading a lot of British authors, so I was more used to seeing grey than gray...) Vort 1 Quote
zil2 Posted January 9 Author Report Posted January 9 1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said: His love appears so to us. Not to me. Quote
NeuroTypical Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 15 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: Some argue that since God is perfect, and could never be reckless, the song contains false teaching and should not be sung. My response to that, is if you want a perfect song sung, or a song sung perfectly, or a song sung in a way that communicates only truth and nothing else, you'll need someone other than a human to sing it. I remember when one of my kiddos was singing a song about how I was horrible and mean because I wouldn't give her a can of EZ cheese as a snack (or something equally as horrible, I don't recall what it actually was). While the song absolutely bore false witness, I wouldn't trade hearing my child sing it for anything in the world. prisonchaplain and zil2 1 1 Quote
Vort Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, zil2 said: I like the look of grey better than I like the look of gray. That's funny. Although I have consciously adopted the American spelling, I have always thought that grey looks somehow grayer than gray. zil2 1 Quote
Carborendum Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, zil2 said: What can I say, I like the look of grey better than I like the look of gray. (And I grew up reading a lot of British authors, so I was more used to seeing grey than gray...) I always thought that Erin Gray is more beautiful than Jennifer Grey. Quote
zil2 Posted January 9 Author Report Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I always thought that Erin Gray is more beautiful than Jennifer Grey. Well, I have no idea who they are. Quote
Carborendum Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 1 minute ago, zil2 said: Well, I have no idea who they are. Erin Gray: Buck Rogers and Silver Spoons Jennifer Grey: Dirty Dancing, Red Dawn, Ferris Bueller's sister zil2 1 Quote
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