"Sicko" by Michael Moore

[Misshalfway]

I just watched this documentary with my husband and I found it rather interesting. And so I thought that I would start a thread to discuss Universal Heath Care in the United States. I would love to hear if anyone has seen the movie and your thoughts about it. I would also like to hear from anyone living outside the US who may have personal experience with this type of system.

For my experience, I live in a Republican dominant state and hear frequently the evils of Universal Health Care or Socialized medicine. As an American, I am frustrated with the current system (corruption, greed, high costs, lack of preventative care, the whole insurance game, etc.) and how my nation's leaders are handling the complex problems. I think that Canada and France and Norway have perhaps a better grasp on how to handle healthcare issues.

Why do you all think?

[Shade]

hi! i'm from South Africa. that's a little country right at the southernmost tip of Africa. we used to be in the news quite a lot once upon a time. Africa is quite a rough place. definitely not for sissies…

just one question: what is health care?

[Elgama]

I am not American - and I have posted on this so many times. My husband is American so I have experience of the American Healthcare system through his Father dying, I had a miscarriage there etc, and until his immigration was finalized we needed to pay his Health Insurance - my experience of the Healthcare there is purely in Southern California and Colorado, and some family connection to Montana

I am in the UK we have the NHS (National Healthcare Service) - before I went to the States and witnessed what I did there I thought our system was OK now I think its marvelous - OK is not perfect but its a zillion times better and costs me so much less. Plus our Private Healthcare is much better and cheaper than in the US because it has the NHS to take the brunt of emergency care.

I have family members that remember before the welfare state began and I know they would not choose to go backwards.

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

Hey Shade,

South Africa! Yes I know about you! Wonderful! I hope to visit some day.

When I say health care, I am referring to medical, dental, surgical, nutritional services and how those services are accessed and who pays for those services. I am looking for insight into how a nation could make all these services available for all of its citizens, especially the poor and how to make it affordable for all and with more focus on preventative care. Make sense?

[Misshalfway]

I am not American - and I have posted on this so many times. My husband is American so I have experience of the American Healthcare system through his Father dying, I had a miscarriage there etc, and until his immigration was finalized we needed to pay his Health Insurance - my experience of the Healthcare there is purely in Southern California and Colorado, and some family connection to Montana

I am in the UK we have the NHS (National Healthcare Service) - before I went to the States and witnessed what I did there I thought our system was OK now I think its marvelous - OK is not perfect but its a zillion times better and costs me so much less. Plus our Private Healthcare is much better and cheaper than in the US because it has the NHS to take the brunt of emergency care.

I have family members that remember before the welfare state began and I know they would not choose to go backwards.

-Charley

Thanks. Do you feel like you receive superior quality in your health care? I am also told that the US has the best care possible and that a National system would compromise that quality.

[VoluntaryPrison]

I would have nothing against a system where the government offers basic services (emergency care, preventative dental, yearly physicals, etc) and a system in place (whether public or private I don't care) that allowed citizens to purchase additional insurance (orthodontic care, prescription plans, eye care, elective medical care, etc). But the US health care system under capitalism is broken, and something more social deserves consideration.

[Elgama]

Thanks. Do you feel like you receive superior quality in your health care? I am also told that the US has the best care possible and that a National system would compromise that quality.

I was shocked at the care I received in the US and I witnessed my Father in Law going through - I thought NHS hospitals were dirty until I saw UCLA and the one in Lancaster. I am in a particularly good NHS area not all are that good but my maternity care has been far superior to that my US friends receive and its about 20 years ahead sometimes.

The nurses and Dr's I encountered in the States were far more of the God mentality than most here are, and I found I am treated less like an idiot by Dr's here, we are given so much more information than I was there and helped to make decisions about our care. The care I saw in the US was not even close in comparison to the private healthcare I experienced here

Only slight thing is the Dentist shortage but even then there are ways and means of doing that - and waiting lists can be long.

-Charley

[TheMightyQuinn]

As an American, I am frustrated with the current system (corruption, greed, high costs, lack of preventative care, the whole insurance game, etc.) and how my nation's leaders are handling the complex problems.

If you're frustrated how the nation's leaders handle complex problems, why do you want to put your health in their hands?

[Canuck Mormon]

Being from Canada where we have government run health care, I can safely say that it is NOT the solution. Yes we do not have astronomical Health care Bills, but we do have long waiting times at emergency clinics, wait lists for essential surgeries (my Dad had to wait over 1 year to get a knee replacement), and the costs of equipment and the bureaucracy is incredible. It's not the solution but I think that Voluntaryprison is leaning in the right direction. Basic coverage for everyone, but for those that can afford to do so, the ability to supplement their care.

For my experience, I live in a Republican dominant state and hear frequently the evils of Universal Health Care or Socialized medicine

Up here, it's the opposite. People are afraid of "American Style Private Health Care"

I don't think anyone has the correct plan or system. There are flaws in both. So maybe a hybrid type might be the best for most people?

[Misshalfway]

If you're frustrated how the nation's leaders handle complex problems, why do you want to put your health in their hands?

Good question. I am not sure I do.

[Elgama]

Being from Canada where we have government run health care, I can safely say that it is NOT the solution. Yes we do not have astronomical Health care Bills, but we do have long waiting times at emergency clinics, wait lists for essential surgeries (my Dad had to wait over 1 year to get a knee replacement), and the costs of equipment and the bureaucracy is incredible. It's not the solution but I think that Voluntaryprison is leaning in the right direction. Basic coverage for everyone, but for those that can afford to do so, the ability to supplement their care.

Up here, it's the opposite. People are afraid of "American Style Private Health Care"

I don't think anyone has the correct plan or system. There are flaws in both. So maybe a hybrid type might be the best for most people?

That is close to what we have because there are private options - like in Canada our waiting lists can be long etc but you can skip the queue by going private. I still wouldn't change it for a US style system with all the NHS flaws - the biggest shocker for me is having to pay for an ambulance here you only do that if you make a hoax call.

-Charley

[Shade]

haha, sorry, i was just being sarcastic

our private hospitals are among the top hospitals in the world and our medical practitioners are highly sought after worldwide, from doctors to nurses to paramedics.

but there is a catch: only the wealthy can afford such health care.

this is, after all, the home of the late Dr. Chris Barnard, the surgeon who laid the foundation for transplant surgery and who performed the first heart transplant in the world. so we've got some pretty HOT medical staff but in any case, most of the best medical practitioners leave our country to seek gainful employment elsewhere in the world. there is a severe shortage of qualified medical staff in the public sector and little or no support from the government

our public health care system is shocking, even disgusting. lack of funds, staff shortages, no medical supplies, inadequate training in many cases, the list of problems is very long. going into a public (or "government") hospital, you're gonna get quite a shock. sick and injured patients lying about unattended; blood-splattered walls and floors in surgeries, hospital rooms and corridors; dressings, bandages, needles and other contaminated materials are often not disposed of or stored away properly.

as i say, shocking, even disgusting.

i would absolutely LOVE to see one of our politicians ending up in one of our hospitals.

in fact our minister of health recently needed to go into surgery for a liver transplant and refused to go to one of the government hospitals. she went to an exclusive private hospital. she also (only "allegedly" of course) has a bit of a drinking problems which caused quite a controversy, seeing as she bumped herself to the top of a long list of patients awaiting much-needed liver transplants.

this is the same mad woman (our minister of health!!!!!! GAH!!!) who claimed that AIDS may be combatted by a diet of beetroot and garlic.

so, through teeth clenched in agonised frustration, i repeat…

hi! i'm from South Africa. that's a little country right at the southernmost tip of Africa. we used to be in the news quite a lot once upon a time. Africa is quite a rough place. definitely not for sissies…

just one question: what is health care?

[Elgama]

haha, sorry, i was just being sarcastic

our private hospitals are among the top hospitals in the world and our medical practitioners are highly sought after worldwide, from doctors to nurses to paramedics.

but there is a catch: only the wealthy can afford such health care.

t

just one question: what is health care?

I currently have 2 South Africans involved in my Healthcare one is my obstetrician and is the most amazing Dr the other works in my GP surgery and I would echo the question what is healthcare lol he's one lazy human being.

-Charley

[TheMightyQuinn]

Why do so many people confuse "health care" with "health insurance"? I believe that the US has great health care available but a terrible insurance system.

I'm a fan of Clark Howard, and he seems to think that the problem lies in employer health insurance plans. These plans can be great if you work for a large company that negotiate low prices, but are terrible if you work for a small company, are self-employed, or unemployed. State governments usually force large companies to insure their workers, which makes it more costly for everyone else.

[kona0197]

Discuss health care in the US? What health care? I have a good job but still no health care...

[Misshalfway]

haha, sorry, i was just being sarcastic

our private hospitals are among the top hospitals in the world and our medical practitioners are highly sought after worldwide, from doctors to nurses to paramedics.

but there is a catch: only the wealthy can afford such health care.

this is, after all, the home of the late Dr. Chris Barnard, the surgeon who laid the foundation for transplant surgery and who performed the first heart transplant in the world. so we've got some pretty HOT medical staff but in any case, most of the best medical practitioners leave our country to seek gainful employment elsewhere in the world. there is a severe shortage of qualified medical staff in the public sector and little or no support from the government

our public health care system is shocking, even disgusting. lack of funds, staff shortages, no medical supplies, inadequate training in many cases, the list of problems is very long. going into a public (or "government") hospital, you're gonna get quite a shock. sick and injured patients lying about unattended; blood-splattered walls and floors in surgeries, hospital rooms and corridors; dressings, bandages, needles and other contaminated materials are often not disposed of or stored away properly.

as i say, shocking, even disgusting.

i would absolutely LOVE to see one of our politicians ending up in one of our hospitals.

in fact our minister of health recently needed to go into surgery for a liver transplant and refused to go to one of the government hospitals. she went to an exclusive private hospital. she also (only "allegedly" of course) has a bit of a drinking problems which caused quite a controversy, seeing as she bumped herself to the top of a long list of patients awaiting much-needed liver transplants.

this is the same mad woman (our minister of health!!!!!! GAH!!!) who claimed that AIDS may be combatted by a diet of beetroot and garlic.

so, through teeth clenched in agonised frustration, i repeat…

hi! i'm from South Africa. that's a little country right at the southernmost tip of Africa. we used to be in the news quite a lot once upon a time. Africa is quite a rough place. definitely not for sissies…

just one question: what is health care?

Sorry. Should have heard your sarcastic whit the first time around.

Sounds like your situation in S.A. is just as frustrating and expensive.

[john doe]

I wouldn't rely on the government to raise the quality of healthcare or lower the costs of it. It's just not what they are good at. What they ARE good at is adding layers of bureaucracy and pulling numbers out of a hat showing us how great of a job they are doing.

[prisonchaplain]

For some long-term health issue, a few Americans have turned to a great corporate solution . . . OUTSOURCING. I hear that the best nursing homes in India (with English speaking staff) run about $900 per month instead of $9000+. Likewise, I get my glasses from Korea at less than half of U.S. prices. Until there is a logical and relatively simple systemic overhaul, individuals will have to be innovative.

[jadams_4040]

I just watched this documentary with my husband and I found it rather interesting. And so I thought that I would start a thread to discuss Universal Heath Care in the United States. I would love to hear if anyone has seen the movie and your thoughts about it. I would also like to hear from anyone living outside the US who may have personal experience with this type of system.

For my experience, I live in a Republican dominant state and hear frequently the evils of Universal Health Care or Socialized medicine. As an American, I am frustrated with the current system (corruption, greed, high costs, lack of preventative care, the whole insurance game, etc.) and how my nation's leaders are handling the complex problems. I think that Canada and France and Norway have perhaps a better grasp on how to handle healthcare issues.

Why do you all think?

And the only people whom fight universal health care are the rich whom make there money from the industry. Yes i saw the movie a long time ago {maybe a year or so?}. And all i have to bring to the attn; of those opposed to universal health care and its obvious pitfalls, are the horrible tragedies and broken families, terrible suffering e.t.c.. of those millions whom dont have any way to get medical help. {it aint pretty}.

[SMG]

Don't get me started on this. I never had *ANY* form of health insurance until I was 25, and that was a requirement before my university would let me attend classes. Even with it now, I get no benefit from it, because they deny all requests it seems.

[Moksha]

hi! I'm from South Africa. that's a little country right at the southernmost tip of Africa. we used to be in the news quite a lot once upon a time. Africa is quite a rough place. definitely not for sissies…

just one question: what is health care?

Interestingly, South Africa was the second to the last industrialized nation to get nationalized health care, so it would stand to reason there would be some, just like in this country asking, "what health care?"

I think the true conservative answer is that those who for whatever reason do not have health care, should rely on the Miracle of Malthus to take care of their needs.

However sooner or later, Americans will wise up and demand a decent health care system that can meet the needs of all citizens. :)

[SMG]

However sooner or later, Americans will wise up and demand a decent health care system that can meet the needs of all citizens. :)

You can put me in that "sooner" category. There's no excuse for such a horrible lack of basic care for all citizens in the US.

[kona0197]

3We are dealing with the high gas prices right now. Health care might have to take a back seat. After all what good is good health care when you can't afford the gas to go see the Doctor?

[john doe]

I'm sorry, but you can put me in the category of one who doesn't want the government to do it. I believe that health care should be available to anyone who wants to pay for it, but forcing people to participate and forcing them to pay for it by garnishing wages or taxing is just plain wrong.

[kona0197]

So tell me - how do I pay for a 5000 dollar surgery while working for a wage slighly above minimum wage?

Your logic is flawed.