Becoming Gods? Is this true?

[JonboySquarepants]

a-train, just one correction i have is in d and c. i don't think it is incorrect to say "when we/they become gods..." because d and c 132:19-21 says just that.

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19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

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i don't see this as 'gods' being a certain species. mormons believe that God is a man. mankind is the species of the gods in mormonism. through this passage i see 'gods' as a level of glory, and exaltation is that glory.

just my thoughts.

[minivan]

LDS people believe in "exaltation" which is to become a god. I don't know why people, even within the church finds that so touchy. It's not as if we "transform" into some other race or species, it means we become so enlightened, so powerfull, and so much like or Father that we reach the same level as he is.

[JonboySquarepants]

i think some people just don't like how that sounds and thus try to make it mean something else; something that they believe.

[VisionOfLehi]

Minivan, thank you for that post! That verse is one I had in the back of the mind, but totally forgot about otherwise!

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

This here defines what we mean by "gods." It means we will have attained everlasting life. (As as D&C 19 defines eternal and everlasting, we know that this also means life rewarded by Heavenly Father and the Lord. That means it is indeed a great gift!) We have become the joint-heirs.

Shortly after the verse in D&C 132 we get a definition about what eternal life is:

24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

Here we read more about exaltation!

Doctrine and Covenants 76

The part I would like to emphasize is this verse:

69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.

There has been talk about the Exalted, those who have become gods, having their own spirit children. But, true or not (I haven't yet been taught that yet, so I'm not sure!), there's one thing to remember. NONE OF THIS IS BY OUR OWN DOING. All the powers is through faith in Christ and by the power of Heavenly Father.

Even Christ acknowledged that it was not by Him!

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Emphasis added on all verses.

[a-train]

But do you see the semantic confusion our friends are suffering from? They think that Mormons believe that men, if righteous, will be transformed to a higher species of being, the species of God. Their understanding of this species, the species of God, is that there is only a single Being of that species and that it is totally impossible for a man to be transformed into that. It is to them, the only eternal species, and man to them is not eternal.

When they hear a Mormon say, 'Well, we can become gods.' They are not hearing what we are saying. They are thinking of something totally different than what we are intending. We are departing from the language of the scriptures and confusion is resulting.

'Exaltation' does refer to the placing upon man the work and glory of Celestialization in the presence of the Father and the inheritance of all things. It does refer to the work of gods. But it in no way refers to taking a being of a different species than God and transforming him/her into that species. It does not infer any notion that we are not gods now.

If we tell people we can become gods, we are saying that we are not gods now. No, we are not exalted. But we are the species of god. We are gods and children of the Most High.

D&C 132 speaks of the different stations of gods and angels, but it demonstrates plainly that these stations are filled by human beings, especially in verses 16 and 17. 17 says: 'For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.'

As we pass from estate to estate, we are gods and children of the Most High. It is only when we fail to progress that our station is henceforth not godhood. But, our species is always the same.

We are celestial beings who have come from the presence of the LORD to this telestial world. We are his children. We are heirs of God. We were not first created men, who can become gods. We were created gods who became men, just as did our LORD.

Our first parents entered the garden as Celestial beings, with immortal bodies and in the Presence of the Father. They were eternally sealed. It was the fall that created the 'natural' man. Our progress to exaltation, is like that of our first parents, it is not a climb from our original state to a new one, but a return to our pre-fallen state.

As close as D&C 132 comes to infering that we are not yet gods, it does not expressly say so. We must be mindful of this and especially mindful of the perceptions and understanding of our fellows.

-a-train

[WillowTheWhisp]

It's just like telling a child that they can grow up to be like Mummy or Daddy. When they become adult they will not have changed into a different type of being. They will just be a grown up version of themselves. We, as people on earth are like childhood version of gods and gods are adult versions of humans. Still the same being, just a progression.

Of course some people refuse to grow up and accept maturity.

[Hemidakota]

Of course some people refuse to grow up and accept maturity.

Bahahahaaaa Excellent statement.

[Misshalfway]

Yes. We believe that God is a male of Flesh and bone but glorified. We believe that The Father and The son are distinct and separate beings. We believe that if we are faithful that God will give us an inheritance to live with him and become thru progress, like him.... in short to become a God. Doesn't mean that our Father will cease to be our God. Make sense? Kinda like my kids become adults just like I am but I am still their mother. We do believe that we will have children...... but only spirit children. We believe that God had spirit children in the pre-earth life (grand council in heaven). Those spirit children include all of us. We came to earth to gain a body and some experience, and then we will move out of this life (death) and into more eternal progression. We believe that for those who do become like God that they will indeed have the ability to produce spirit children as well. One eternal round of progression. Make sense??

[Snow]

Let me start by not bluffing, and just admit that I did not read the question carefully. I thought that Malachi7 was asking me if I agreed with eternal premortal existence, since that had been my topic. Nevertheless, I thought my response fit, so did not bother editing my answer.

If "eternal progression," means that we will become godly, godlike, glorified beyond our imagination, and that we shall rule and reign with Christ, then I can agree. We literally shall continue to progress eternally.

On the other hand, I believe that human creation was done ex nihilo, and that we shall remain forever essentially distinct and subordinate from the Father. Further, that Jesus is the only God the Son.

Interesting, though I am not sure I understand:

1. You believe in theosis, or divinization, or some form of exaltation?

2. I do not believe in creation ex nihilo but I do believe "that we shall remain forever essentially distinct and subordinate from the Father." The way you say it, it seems you think the two are mutually exclusive.

[Snow]

I'm afraid we Mormons are the perpetuation of the confusion. We continue to pretend men can become gods when the scriptures nor the prophets have told us this. The scriptures say we ARE gods. We cannot become something we already are.

Any definition of god includes some supernatural ability. If you are God or a god, can you please make my eyesight 20/20 again.

Betcha can't.

[Snow]

LDS people believe in "exaltation" which is to become a god. I don't know why people, even within the church finds that so touchy. It's not as if we "transform" into some other race or species, it means we become so enlightened, so powerfull, and so much like or Father that we reach the same level as he is.

No part of LDS belief entails us becoming equal to or on the same level as God, the Father.

[Traveler]

On the other hand, I believe that human creation was done ex nihilo, and that we shall remain forever essentially distinct and subordinate from the Father. Further, that Jesus is the only God the Son.

Please, if you do not mind, I have never been able to understand statements like this. Can you clarify for me if you (and your children) are ex nihilo creations or are you and your children not human?

I ask this because I have studied human birth and how the male sperm furtilizes a female egg and a baby is created as a single cell then continues to grow from something that the eye cannot see into something that we all are. I believe all life that we can identify, comes through this method of beginning from a single cell. Does this mean that there is no life as we know it that was created by G-d in the manner you understand? What evidence do you have of any ex nihilo creation. Where in scripture do we learn that G-d has changed the manner in which he creates life or that his power is not needed in the same manner for life now from that which first was?

Who are you and your children? Where and when were you created ex nihilo? I have great difficulity understanding why you believe such a thing about your self and your children? How is G-d your father in heaven?

The Traveler

[a-train]

Any definition of god includes some supernatural ability. If you are God or a god, can you please make my eyesight 20/20 again.

Betcha can't.

I'm sorry my son, but you have been chosen to endure this test.

-a-train

[Hemidakota]

Any definition of god includes some supernatural ability. If you are God or a god, can you please make my eyesight 20/20 again.

Betcha can't.

I am surprise you cannot fix it.

[Hemidakota]

No part of LDS belief entails us becoming equal to or on the same level as God, the Father.

Did not the Jews plan to murder [the text uses kill] Jesus when He said He was equal with GOD? [Ref: John 5:18, JST John 5:18]

Again, in Phil 2:16, Paul quoted the following:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I would hope we can share and be equal with our Heavenly Parents and the Savior in the externalities. It is our destiny.

[ztodd]

I'm afraid we Mormons are the perpetuation of the confusion. We continue to pretend men can become gods when the scriptures nor the prophets have told us this. The scriptures say we ARE gods. We cannot become something we already are.

I see your point. Maybe we should say we can become just like our Heavenly Father instead of saying we become gods.

We must understand that most of the world believes that there is one species of god, another of man, another of angels, and another of devils. This is NOT the LDS view. Gods, angels, devils, and men are all the same species.

Right- we are literally children of God and not just His creations. We can "grow up" to become just like Him.

We need to stop perpetuating the false notion that men are a certain species that can be raised to a higher species, the species of god.

ztodd, don't take this as a rebuke, I know you mean no harm.

No harm done.

But statements like 'when we become gods...' or 'if we become gods...' which are often used in Mormondom, need to be refrained from. They give a false impression.

What is at the core of confusion is that Mormons use the phrase 'becoming a god' to refer to the taking up of whatever great responsibilities are rested on those saved and exalted in the presence of the LORD. The scriptural term for this is 'exaltation'. 'Becoming a god' is not in the scriptures.

I hope that we will understand the semantics of this and avoid confusion.

-a-train

When I hear someone talking about becoming a god, I don't consider it to mean being transformed into a different species, although we are transformed. But I understand that other Christians might think that we mean changing into a different species.

I think the only good way to think of it is that we are literal children of God and can become just like Him. It doesn't matter to me if we are the same species already or if we change species.

[Snow]

Did not the Jews plan to murder [the text uses kill] Jesus when He said He was equal with GOD? [Ref: John 5:18, JST John 5:18]

Again, in Phil 2:16, Paul quoted the following:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I would hope we can share and be equal with our Heavenly Parents and the Savior in the externalities. It is our destiny.

Hope if you want to but God will always be our God and we will never be equal to him - at least not in LDS theology.

[a-train]

Hope if you want to but God will always be our God and we will never be equal to him - at least not in LDS theology.

Well of course! Everyone knows we are not, nor ever will be Equal. We aren't even Sugar! We are the SALT of the earth, not some zero calorie sweetening sugar replacement! Sheesh!

-a-train

[Dr T]

Then it would follow that the god you worship is subordinate to a greater God-his parents, and not quite as great in some ways. Why does he not pass on the worship to the greater being?

[Elgama]

Then it would follow that the god you worship is subordinate to a greater God-his parents, and not quite as great in some ways. Why does he not pass on the worship to the greater being?

For all we know He does that is His story not ours, we know only the story we need to know for our eternal progression.

My own view is He is as much one with his Heavenly Parents as the Saviour is with ours and we have commanded to be.

-Charley

[Dr T]

But he does not point to a greater God at all Charley. (because there is none)

[WillowTheWhisp]

But he does not point to a greater God at all Charley. (because there is none)

You're not LDS Dr T?

[Elgama]

But he does not point to a greater God at all Charley. (because there is none)

i wasn't Christian before i became LDS lol so what do you mean there is only one God;) Actually I believe there is only one God but many beings make up the ONE or the WAY etc

-Charley

[Dr T]

You're not LDS Dr T?

No maam, I am not LDS

===

Elgama,

I believe that there is one God as oulined in scripture (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirt). I believe God to be a perfect being, omni "X" in his characteristics. I believe he is the only thing that needs nothing to sustain its being. He is like no other. Not less in anything than anything else. That's why I have a problem with the belief as stated above.

[Hemidakota]

But he does not point to a greater God at all Charley. (because there is none)

Why not? If the veil is rent today. you find that is not the case.