Alcohol and the Words of Wisdom

[kona0197]

Yeah well I don't believe in the WoW. I've never heard the Lord tell me that tobacco or alcohol is wrong.

[skalenfehl]

You're answers fascinate me kona. You remind me of a yo-yo. I mean that respectfully.

[kona0197]

I've heard that before...

[KayaLove00]

Many members aren't aware that Joseph Smith drank alcohol and so did many of the early members before the word of wisdom was revealed to Joseph. However, he did see that is was becoming a problem among members and it was revealed that the word of wisdom come into place. It is a good principle to not intake alcohol because is really isn't good for the body especially the way people drink today- even though it may be nice to have a beer or glass of wine . Studies do show that regular grape juice and such does give you the same health benefits compared to wine....now I know that's not the main reason people may drink but I think it's one of those things about the gospel that we need to have faith about and follow because so many lives have been destroyed by alcohol and many other substances.

[Avrham]

moderation the wow teachs, alcohol is very potent drink in large quantaties the heallth benefits are limited but alcohol along with any substance can be abused everything was created for the benefit for man we(being free agents)either use faith in the prophets modern day teachings or can try out your own logic(agency) good luck

[a-train]

Jesus drank alcoholic wine and so did Noah and Joseph Smith. This doesn't mean we are now authorized to do so. As long as the Presiding elders over the affairs of the Kingdom of God on earth require us to abstain from all alcohol in order to participate in priesthood ordinances, we must do so. We cannot perform these ordinances without the proper keys.

Joseph Smith DID own a bar AFTER the Word of Wisdom was given.

-a-train

[crytsprospect]

Satan uses alcohol to dull the senses and make wrong choices, not always but enough times to want to stay away from it. Anything that takes away the spirit.

[erichazelle]

Again, most of you are missing the point. It's not so much that, for health reasons we can or cannot drink or eat "X", or "Y". It is that, as a minimum or entry level of sacrifice and obedience, God has asked us to keep the Word of Wisdom. (Verse 3.) And, there is some slack allowed: I know some saints won't eat chocolate because of the caffeine. Well, that's ok if that's what they want for themselves. Remember the "Nazarite Vow" in the Old Testament; if you think the Law of Moses was restrictive, the Nazarites took it a whole level further. It's not that they'll be in a higher level of Heaven; it's that they had that means to show an extra measure of devotion to God. There are those who want to go "extra" on the Word of Wisdom: fine, but they shouldn't be passing it off as doctrine. The Word of Wisdom, as currently interpreted means, minimally, no tea, coffee, alcohol, tobacco, or lately, drugs. As a truck driver battling sleepiness, I drink caffeinated sodas. I mentioned it to my Stake President in a temple recommend interview, saying it was probably more healthy for me and others around me if I stay awake while driving, and he said, "No problem." I'd say, keep the minimum so you can be temple worthy: do more if you so desire, but don't pass it off as doctrine.

As a Stake Mission President, I once interviewed a missionary in his home. He offered me an apple; I took out my knife and cut out the stem and blossom ends and the seed core, then ate it. He gave me a funny look and asked if I was going to eat those parts. I said, "no", and he proceeded to eat them, claiming the Word of Wisdom requires us to eat all of the fruit. I, of course, popped off and asked him what he did with peaches and avocados. The interview went downhill from there.

But, consider: he had teenagers. Supposing one of his kids, wanting to be obedient to parents (that's, fiction, right? Anyway), in school, eats a whole apple, core, stem and blossom end and all in front of friends. When asked why, they claim the Mormon church requires us to eat apple cores. Can you see how silly that would make us look, and the potential harm for missionary work? That rumor would be all over the school before the day was done. To sum up: keep the minimal requirements (how many of us keep the counsel on eating meat? I know I don't), so you'll be temple worthy; do extra if you so desire like the Nazarites of old mentioned above, and let that part of it be between you and the Lord, and let the doctors and scientists debated the pros and cons of the health aspects, as they have been doing for decades with no clear results.

[Stampede]

i expected more from the LDS on this fourm. Stop trying to push the limits to what you can and cannot do "just because"

Is drinking neer beer going to get you to the celestial kingdom? no it certainly does nothing for that.

[kona0197]

Hey Stampede don't look at me. I'm not LDS.

Just so everyone knows caffeine is NOT the reason you can not have tea or coffee.

[Moksha]

Is drinking neer beer going to get you to the celestial kingdom?

Or at least within a few blocks of it and you can walk the rest of the way?

I went out with friends tonight for dinner. They had White Zinfandel but I abstained. Besides, in an Italian Restaurant, I would expect chianti.

[Moksha]

Here is something for all you Mormons who wish to live on the :eek:wild side:eek:: My daughter and I like to toast each other on holidays with a nice non-alcoholic Martinelli Sparkling Catawba. That is good stuff. :)

[sjdean]

Cool. This old chestnut again. Just so everyone is aware, Im not Mormon.

My interpretation suggests that Joseph Smith came out with a fine and dandy, clear and concise word of wisdom stating no "hot drinks" (which I did hear the once that very hot drinks can cause some kind of throat cancer), and he also gave the distinction between strong and mild drinks of which it was only strong drinks that was wrong.

And in any event, it wasn't really a commandment, more a guideline.

But then over time, someone decided that what should have been the clear word of the lord from the prophet Joseph Smith, needed to be clarified.

So it became a commandment, hot became tea and coffee and strong drinks became mild drinks.

I've followed the discussions here and I've just about wrapped my head around the idea of continuing revelation and further instruction for each generation. What might have been right in the past, isn't right now.

The only thing I would have a problem with is that the actual Word of Wisdom contents has not been updated to reflect this change in policy.

There are a few points in this thread that I would like to address.

I am an alcohol enjoyer. Too many times I read in the newspaper, alcohol blamed for the worlds ills. Alcohol blamed for some young thug committing a crime. Wrong. It's the thug that is to blame. Not alcohol. As with all things, it can be used responsibly, or it can be used abusively. I would fully encourage a system of education to stop the abusive use of alcohol. I think to achieve this, an individual needs to take more responsibility.

I do tire of the insinuation that the use of alcohol is linked to Satan, and even drinking alcohol free beer is in someway near evil, and what's the point?

What's the point to hot chocolate? What's the point of a fruit tea? or a soft drink?

Some people enjoy the taste. Quite simply. Should a fruit tea not be drunk because it sounds too much like tea and is made in a similar method to regular tea?

I heard it written here that the only thing Mormons are supposed to question is whether the book is true. Is that correct? Im sure I've heard statements from both sides of the fence. From those who say it is actively encouraged to enquire of the Lord (such as, is the current prophet really a prophet?). Then there are those who admonish any question or request for information suggesting it's contention and we should only have blind obedience.

That perplexes me.

My final question though. At some stage, someone must have disagreed with what Joseph Smith had put into the D&C enough to enquire of the Lord and be told something different.

Should I become a Mormon, and enquire of the Lord about the alcohol, and whether it's avoidance is correct for all people and hear an answer suggesting that responsible use is OK and in fact I should go out and get a beer right now, what do I do?

At some stage, drinking alcohol was OK. It isn't right now. But the rules are forever evolving. It is possible at some stage in the future it will be OK.

[WillowTheWhisp]

If 'someone' ads an interpretation of clarification to a previously revealed doctrine that 'someone' is usually a later prophet, not just an obscure member of the church.

[kona0197]

Well I can't wait till alcohol is legal again!

[sjdean]

If 'someone' ads an interpretation of clarification to a previously revealed doctrine that 'someone' is usually a later prophet, not just an obscure member of the church.

But who would believe someone who says they believe God has told them something different if it goes against the grain of the church?

I presume would go and tell a few more people that this interpretation is indeed correct?

[lilered]

Another point of obeying the Words of Wisdom that has not yet been addressed is that of Obediance to a commandment. When we obey the Words of Wisdom, we display our desire to be an obediant servant both to God and those people we are associated with. We also prove our worthiness by our obediance when we obtain a Temple Recommend etc..

[kona0197]

Another point of obeying the Words of Wisdom that has not yet been addressed is that of Obediance to a commandment. When we obey the Words of Wisdom, we display our desire to be an obediant servant both to God and those people we are associated with. We also prove our worthiness by our obediance when we obtain a Temple Recommend etc..

And you are also allowing another Human being tell you what you should or should not do. There is another word for that as well...

[sjdean]

Another point of obeying the Words of Wisdom that has not yet been addressed is that of Obediance to a commandment. When we obey the Words of Wisdom, we display our desire to be an obediant servant both to God and those people we are associated with. We also prove our worthiness by our obediance when we obtain a Temple Recommend etc..

I think it's almost a certain that any commandment, law or a rule needs to be adhered to and followed. There is no question about that. The question is in knowing whether the current interpretation is true given the WoW's original wording to distinguish between strong and mild drink and the fact it was sent "not by commandment or constraint".

I am more than happy with the responses as given in previous discussions that God will give further information or ask something different as time progresses.

It may be a case that at some point in the future, we all grow up, there is no danger of alcoholism anymore and God says Ok, you guys can now go and enjoy a beer.

I don't agree with the current interpretation of the WoW, I don't believe God would necessarily advocate a one size fits all approach. I also don't support the notion that alcohol is evil, or non-alcoholic beer is evil and what's the point.

The point is that some people like the taste, and the fact of the matter, alcohol can be enjoyed responsibly.

But if I joined the church, I would follow the comamndments. No question.

[kona0197]

It's amazing that no one has guessed what word I was talking about...

[skalenfehl]

It's amazing that no one has guessed what word I was talking about...

Or it isn't really that important because it's your own opinion. Perhaps you're referring to "brainwashing" or something similar. The problem with your view is that it isn't just "man" that we are allowing to guide us, but a "man called of God". In other words a prophet or apostle.

[kona0197]

Nope. It wasn't brainwashing.

[skalenfehl]

Nope. It wasn't brainwashing.

I see. I digress. I'm sure you'll feel inspired to enlighten us soon enough. :)

[kona0197]

Slavery. Submission. That's what it is called when you let others run your life.

[skalenfehl]

President Monson doesn't run my life nor do the apostles of the church. For that matter God doesn't run my life. But I do choose to obey His commandments and the counsel of His prophets because I have proven the Lord and the admonishments of His prophets with excellent results. I am very happy and at peace with myself and my relationship with my Father in Heaven is good. I hardly feel like a slave, but we do learn in the scriptures that we ought to be submissive to God.

Mosiah 3: 19

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Alma 7: 23

23 And now I would that ye should be humble, and be submissive and gentle; easy to be entreated; full of patience and long-suffering; being temperate in all things; being diligent in keeping the commandments of God at all times; asking for whatsoever things ye stand in need, both spiritual and temporal; always returning thanks unto God for whatsoever things ye do receive.

Alma 13: 28

28 But that ye would humble yourselves before the Lord, and call on his holy name, and watch and pray continually, that ye may not be tempted above that which ye can bear, and thus be led by the Holy Spirit, becoming humble, meek, submissive, patient, full of love and all long-suffering;