question

[lostnfound]

I have a new question for you.

What happened to the people after the disclipes died and the time Joseph smith came. Did they go to hell? I think lds teaches there was a falling away during this time...But that is long time in history so did these people not have the gospel? What the bible? Hopefully my question is clear. Any thoughts for me?

[Canuck Mormon]

Those people will be taught the Gospel in the next life. They will then have the choice to accept it or not. A good place to learn about that would be @ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You will need to type "Plan of Salvation" into the search box.

[Vanhin]

I have a new question for you.

What happened to the people after the disclipes died and the time Joseph smith came. Did they go to hell? I think lds teaches there was a falling away during this time...But that is long time in history so did these people not have the gospel? What the bible? Hopefully my question is clear. Any thoughts for me?

That is what our genealogy efforts and temple work for the dead are about.

Canuck touched on this a bit. When we die, our spirits continue to live until the resurrection. We call the place where they continue to exist, the spirit world. The spirit world has two major divisions. Those who received the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and were faithful in their testimony, are in paradise. The rest are in prison. We believe that after his crucifixion, Christ organized a missionary effort in the spirit world to give those in prison a chance to accept the Gospel.

We the living, seek out the names of our kindred dead, and take the names with us to the Temple. There the ordinances of salvation (baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, priesthood, etc...) are performed by proxy on behalf of those that died without receiving them by proper authority.

When a person in the spirit world accepts the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the missionaries there, they accept the baptism and other ordinances that were performed vicariously for them by the living. It will be for them as if they were baptized while still in mortality.

Everyone will have a chance to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's the basic idea anyway.

Regards,

Vanhin

[WillowTheWhisp]

They are in the spirit world where they have the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel and the proxy baptisms done on their behalf.

[PapilioMemnon]

Hi there!

God is not partial and unjust and He knows our thoughts and the desires of our hearts. People who didn't have a chance to hear the "Good News" and choose it, they have a chance as some people already explained. This is not only for the people who lived in the Apostasy, but even after His Church had been restored, and died without knowing it.

In 1 Peter 3, he explains that Jesus Christ preached to the Spirits in prison:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

D&C 76:73

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

And in Mosiah 3, King Benjamin talks about the Atonement of Christ and how it makes up to those who died not knowing:

11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.

All people will be judged righteously as our Lord takes in consideration all things because He knows all things! The baptisms performed at the Temples allow them to be taught the gospel and make a choice for themselves; we just perform the ordinances that are necessary they can no longer do for themselves.

I hope this helps in some way.

Be well!

[lostnfound]

yes thank you..so what scripture references do you look to that says we do these ordinances for them?? And what scripture references is there that says there will be a COMPLETE apostasy.. And what happened to all those christians across the world that started with Pauls ministry and others?

[Flyonthewall]

yes thank you..so what scripture references do you look to that says we do these ordinances for them?? And what scripture references is there that says there will be a COMPLETE apostasy.. And what happened to all those christians across the world that started with Pauls ministry and others?

I don't know about a COMPLETE apostasy, but there was a GREAT apostasy where the power and authority to administer the church was taken away. Men did the best they could with what they understood.

Here are a few scriptural references.

Amos 8

11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Isaiah 60

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

[Vanhin]

yes thank you..so what scripture references do you look to that says we do these ordinances for them??

As you are well aware, we have all kinds of scripture and living prophets as well. So, for what it's worth, here is something to start with:

Guide to the Scriptures: Salvation for the Dead

And what scripture references is there that says there will be a COMPLETE apostasy..

What is significant in the great apostasy is the loss of priesthood keys. That is the right to direct the use of the priesthood on earth, and also to authorize new priesthood ordinations. Those who anciently held the keys were killed before the keys could be transferred to others. Because of that, there was no one on earth authorized as God's mouthpiece, as Peter and the apostles had been. To top things off, many members themselves fell into apostasy. The New Testament is full of evidence that the apostles were struggling to fend off apostasy even while they were alive. They had to constantly write to various congregations and correct false doctrines. Then there was the obviously dark age of time when much evil was done by the so called Church, that serves as further evidence that it had lost it's way and direction from God. If you don't believe me, ask the dead heretics and the reformers.

As compelling as historical evidence is, that's not how we know there was an apostasy. We know there was an apostasy because Jesus Christ himself told Joseph Smith. It was one of the first things that Joseph learned.

"...[Jesus Christ] said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” (Joseph Smith—History 1)

And what happened to all those christians across the world that started with Pauls ministry and others?

If they were baptized by proper authority before it was lost, then they are all set. That is, of course, if they were true and faithful to their covenants afterwards. The same goes for us too.

Regards

Vanhin

[MaidservantX]

Vanhin! I just learned something. I did not realize that that Guide to the Scriptures existed. That is soooo cool. That just made my job here sooo much easier, lol.

[Vanhin]

Vanhin! I just learned something. I did not realize that that Guide to the Scriptures existed. That is soooo cool. That just made my job here sooo much easier, lol.

Yes it's really nice. It was designed as a combination crossreference/Bible dictionary deal for foreign scriptures, and is included in the new Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants in many languages. I don't know if a new version of the English Standard Works is in the works that will include it. Until then, the Internet Edition of the Scriptures has it in English! :)

Here's the description and contents for those interested:

This alphabetical listing of gospel topics defines selected doctrines, principles, people, and places found in the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. It also provides key scriptural references for you to study for each topic and can help you in your individual and family study of the scriptures. It can help you answer questions about the gospel, study topics in the scriptures, prepare talks and lessons, and increase your knowledge and testimony of the gospel.

Each entry gives a short definition of the topic and provides the most significant scriptural references about that topic. Each reference is preceded by a short quotation or summary of the scripture. The scriptural references appear in the following order: Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. (Guide to the Scriptures)

Vanhin

[WillowTheWhisp]

I like the scripture in Thessalonians which Fly quoted:

for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

[PapilioMemnon]

yes thank you..so what scripture references do you look to that says we do these ordinances for them?? And what scripture references is there that says there will be a COMPLETE apostasy.. And what happened to all those christians across the world that started with Pauls ministry and others?

In a discussion about the resurrection of the dead, 1 Corinthians 15, Paul clearly teaches that the dead indeed will resurrect by mentioning baptism for the dead. Baptism is an essential ordinance; it is the gate that a person must enter just as Jesus Christ had to be baptized. The only difference is that we do it for the remission of our sins; the Lord did it to fulfill all righteousness and show the importance of this ordinance to enter His kingdom.

Vanhin placed a great link for this topic. Check it out!

About the Great apostasy, along with the great scriptures Flyonthewall mentioned, you can check this out:

Apostasy is defined as turning away from truth, from the true God, from the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, from the ordinances He instituted, the way He did and taught it should be done.

The early Christian church also turned away from the truth that had been taught by the Apostles. After all the Apostles were killed, then came the GREAT apostasy period when God's authority was removed from men and the earth until the Restoration as Flyonthewall mentioned before.

2 Timothy 4

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

This link will lead to more scriptures about the apostasy:

Topical Guide: Apostasy of the Early Christian Church

I hope this helps!

[Hemidakota]

I have a new question for you.

What happened to the people after the disclipes died and the time Joseph smith came. Did they go to hell? I think lds teaches there was a falling away during this time...But that is long time in history so did these people not have the gospel? What the bible? Hopefully my question is clear. Any thoughts for me?

Your question has been answered by others. Now, I never knew that John ever died. This is not a correct statement as to all disciples died.

[lostnfound]

Your question has been answered by others. Now, I never knew that John ever died. This is not a correct statement as to all disciples died.

Someone posted that after the discelepes died on another thread the apostasy took place.

[Hemidakota]

I do apologized. There are thousands that have not touch death since the time of Adam [immorality].

[Misshalfway]

Someone posted that after the discelepes died on another thread the apostasy took place.

The Great Apostasy was a process of events that happened over time....lots of moving parts. Many of the gospel truths were kept. Some of them were lost. Some evolved or were eroded over time. Some were preserved. The NT and Christianity itself is evidence that some truth did survive. We believe that certain essential elements were lost.

If you look at the history in the OT, you will see that mans obedience and compliance with God's commandments is an almost cyclical thing. There have been multiple, large scale apostasies. And there were many who were without the truth for long periods of time because of their own choices or because of the wickedness of the people.

Again, everyone will have a fair opportunity to hear the truth in its purity, whether in this life or the next. God does allow agency, but is merciful and makes all things available to all of his children. This makes the final judgement day an absolutely fair proceeding. No one can say, ' I didn't get the gospel! No fair!"

[MorningStar]

That's one of my favorite parts of the Gospel - Everyone who has ever lived or will live will have the chance to hear it.