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A pamphlet from the Church of Christ [w/ the Elijah Message]. It makes a lot of sense... THE ANGEL NEPHI OR MORONI? Prove all things by the words of truth in The Bible, Record of Nephites and The Word of the Lord. All this is established for mankind, the guidelines of hope and deliverance. Man’s idealisms shall come to naught. Message 102:18 Because we, The Church of Christ “The Church With the Elijah Message,” believe in The Record of the Nephites (better known as The Book of Mormon), we are put into the category of what some call “The Restoration Movement.” What we like to be called is “Christians” and nothing else. Why? Because we feel that much of the Restoration Movement base their beliefs on man-written historical events that are not consistent with the inspired written word. In other words, their beliefs are based on history, not the written word of God. Please remember that in the Bible, Malachi 3:6, God says He changes not. It is so important that we believe in an unchangeable God. One of the beliefs in the Restoration is that the angel Moroni appeared unto Joseph Smith. We believe that it was the angel Nephi. Please let us explain our position on this subject. In two different places in the Bible, there is a story about when several people came to Jesus, trying to trick him. They gave Him a scenario about a woman that married a man, and he died, then she married his brother and he died, so she married the other brother and he died. The question asked was, “Whose wife is she in the resurrection?” Mark 12:24,25 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead (the resurrected), they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. In the book of Luke 20:35-36, concerning the same story, Jesus states it this way: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. This tells us there are at least two different kinds of angels: Angels made at the beginning, and then those that were human at one time and were resurrected. Now let’s understand that the generic term for an angel really means “Heavenly Creature.” Now let’s go to The Record of the Nephites and turn to the 40th chapter of Alma, where an angel told Alma what happens to the souls from death until their resurrection. Alma 40:11. Now concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection. Behold, it hath been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body; yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. 12. And then shall it come to pass that the spirits of those which are righteous, are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise; a state of rest; a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles, and from all care, and sorrow, &c. 13. And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, which are evil; for behold, they have no part nor portion of the spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works, rather than good; therefore the spirit of the Devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house; and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and this because of their own iniquity; being led captive by the will of the Devil. 14. Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked; yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for of the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection. Now we see that all souls stay either in Paradise or in [Hell] until their resurrection. Correct? Now let’s take another step. When was there a resurrection? We can find this in Matthew 27:52,53: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection (Jesus), and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. We have to understand that the saints were the only ones to have risen, and those that slept (the dead, you don’t sleep in graves) went into the Holy City. This is a resurrection. That’s the only way they could have gone from one place to another. The next step is to find out when the next resurrection will be. This we can also find in the Bible. In the Second book of Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. When Christ comes back to Earth is when the next resurrection is going to be. The point that we are making is the saints that died before Christ were resurrected and became as angels. The saints that died after Christ are still in Paradise waiting for their resurrection, which won’t be until Christ comes back to Earth. Nephi lived and died before Christ. Moroni died after Christ. So Moroni is still in paradise awaiting his resurrection. Even in Moroni’s last statement, the very last verse of The Record of the Nephites (or Book of Mormon), it states: (Moroni 10:34) And now I bid unto all, farewell. I soon go to rest in the Paradise of God, until my spirit and body shall again reunite, and I am brought forth triumphant through the air, to meet you before the pleasing bar of the great Jehovah, the Eternal Judge of both quick and dead. Amen. Now let’s go to the books on Church History, Volume one, page 12. It states that the angel that appeared to Joseph Smith was named “NEPHI.” At the bottom of the page it states “later changed to Moroni.” In other publications, it may state that the angel’s name was Moroni, but again at the bottom of the page, it will state that originally it was Nephi. Also in The Times and Seasons, which Joseph Smith was supposed to have edited it before going to print, it also states that the angels name was Nephi. There is so much confusion in the Restoration’s history, and we know who is the author of confusion So here is where the problem lies: Are we to base our beliefs on the written history of man, or base our beliefs on the written word of God? We of The Church of Christ, will base our beliefs on the written word of God Almighty. Printed by the Board of Publications of THE CHURCH OF CHRIST “THE CHURCH WITH THE ELIJAH MESSAGE” P.O. Box 1134 INDEPENDENCE MO 64051 U.S.A. PHONE & FAX: 816-833-0640 Web Site: The Church of Christ - "The Church with the Elijah Message" E-Mail: [email protected]

I don't remember posting anything like that.

The Doors- Way ahead of their time Duran Duran- Made 80's music an artform Prince- Took funk to a "whole nother level"

Uh, ok. What post are you responding to exactly?

Wow, that article was somewhat uninformative. It's just a guy telling us that the ancient documents jive with LDSism. But there is no reference to the actual scripts and what parts they think say that. I would need to see a lot more of the text and translations to take him seriously. Or am I just supposed to take his word for it?

Nice.

So what do you think of say a Mormon family in Eastern Washington State who has a farm and grows hops? Or a Mormon who works as delivery guy for Budweiser or at a plant loading trucks? Self-righteous judgment is dangerous territory.

Hmmm.. I have never read "Thou shalt pray vocally to the Lord" as a requirement for exaltation. God commanding Israel to remove the people from the land is not the same as God commanding people to cease to receive an ordinance taught as essential to exaltation in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. This discussion is getting old and we are just going around in circles. Off to something else.

I noticed the mention of Marriott putting access to porn in their hotel rooms has been ignored.

Shall I link to Craig Tholson's book again? Denying that Adam-God was taught is like denying the sun is in the sky. Unbelievable. It would be cool with me if LDS people just admitted that and moved on. But to sit and deny it is pure insanity and makes them look silly to educated investigators.

Still doesn't jive would me. God wouldn't command his people to cease practicing a true principle to make nice with the world. Who to say God wouldn't have crushed the US Army and thus taken away said "distraction"?

Not particularly. And if I did I would listen to him, over men 150+ years removed from Joseph Smith.

Your examples aren't of compromise they are the allowing of evil to take it's course. God has never asked his people to quit obeying commandments to make the world happy. Why then did not Daniel not cease to pray per the edict of the King? What about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego? Did he ask the Apostles to cease public preaching? No. The people of God survived ALL of those things faithful to the commandments they had been given. Would not have God sustained them through the persecution over plural marriage, if it was indeed a true principle?

Actually, legalizing same-sex marriage may be the most visual sign we are in the last days... Same sex marriage comments from a Rabbi How same-sex marriage points to end of the world -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: May 20, 2008 1:00 am Eastern © 2008 What do May 17, 2004, and May 15, 2008, have in common? One judge and a redefinition of marriage against the will of the people. Both the Massachusetts Superior Court and the California Supreme Court by a one-judge margin redefined what marriage has always been in every culture and every religion for more than 5,000 years of recorded history. Why does this matter? As I wrote about in my book, "The Criminalization of Christianity," Jeffrey Satinover, who holds an M.D. from Princeton and doctorates from Yale, MIT and Harvard, was on my radio program one day and I asked him about where we are in history. He explained that according to the "Babylonian Talmud" – the book of rabbis' interpretation of the scriptures 1,000 years before Christ, there was only one time in history that reflects where we are right now. There was only one time in history, according to these writings, where men were given in marriage to men, and women given in marriage to women. (Column continues below) Want to venture a guess as to when? No, it wasn't in Sodom and Gomorrah, although that was my guess. Homosexuality was rampant there, of course, but according to the Talmud, not homosexual "marriage." What about ancient Greece? Rome? No. Babylon? No again. The one time in history when homosexual "marriage" was practiced was … during the days of Noah. And according to Satinover, that's what the "Babylonian Talmud" attributes as the final straw that led to the Flood. On my Faith2Action radio program on Thursday, Rabbi Aryeh Spero verified this to be true. Rabbi Spero spoke of God's compassion before the Flood, in hopes people would repent and turn back to His ways. He showed patience for hundreds of years. But, he said, the Talmud's writings reveal that "before the Flood people started to write marriage contracts between men, in other words, homosexual 'marriage,' which is more than homosexual activity – it's giving an official state stamp of approval, a sanctification … of homosexual partnership." In fact, he said, "the writings indicated that it wasn't even so much the 'straw that broke the camel's back,' but that the sin in and of itself is so contrary to why God created the world, so contrary to the order of God's nature, that God said then and there 'I have to start all over … to annihilate the world and start from the beginning. …'" Rabbi Spero went on to say, "Even in ancient Greece they did not write marriage contracts between men. There was homosexuality, and it was wrong, but there was not an official 'blessed' policy. … Marriage is 'sanctification' (not simply a partnership)." He said to confer the title of sanctification and holiness upon this behavior is "probably one of the greatest sins of all that one does against God's plan for this world." The one time it happened was: "During the days of Noah." When I first heard this, my mind immediately went to a verse I've heard many times but never with such relevance. The verse is found in Matthew 24:37. It reads: As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. – Mathew 24:37 (NIV) I used to read this verse and think: It was bad at lots of points in history; it doesn't necessarily mean now, but if these Jewish writings are true, we are uniquely like the "days of Noah" right now – and only right now. But it can't be yet, you say. You have a lot going on in your life? You're getting married? Here's how the New Living Translation describes that very sentiment in Luke: When the Son of Man returns, the world will be like the people were in Noah's day. In those days before the Flood, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat, and the flood came to destroy them all. – Luke 17:26-27 Happily going about as if everything was fine was what they did, too. You don't like this possibility? Don't even believe in the Flood? Doesn't matter. Some things are true whether you believe them or not. How can you be sure? There's a way. Did you know that about one-fourth of the Bible is prophecy? A quarter of the Bible is a lot – it's a big book. And did you know God's standard? Perfection. That means that if even one of those prophecies is wrong, you can discount the whole thing. Kind of like a prophet who makes a false prediction – that made him a false prophet and a candidate for stoning. Did you know that 4,000 prophecies in that Bible have already come true down to the last detail? That leaves about 1,000 left to be fulfilled – those are the ones regarding the last days before the return of Christ, which are being checked off the list right now. If 4,000 out of 5,000 prophecies have already occurred exactly as the Bible predicted they would, you might want to pay attention to the rest. The good news is that 1.1 million people across California have signed a petition to bring marriage to a vote of the people through a state constitutional amendment (just like 27 other states have done). And guess what? An amendment to a state constitution trumps even the most out-of-control state judiciary. We'll likely know if these signatures are validated before this tyrannical ruling goes into effect, and I predict they will be since they gathered 400,000 more signatures more than they needed to qualify. Besides, they already voted – eight years ago where more than 61 percent of Californians declared marriage as the union of a man and a woman. Now they just need to turn that same language into a constitutional amendment. I don't live in California, so why am I sounding the alarm? Here's why: But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand. – Ezekiel 33:6 I'm praying and working to protect marriage in California (and the rest of the country) not only because I care about marriage, but because I care about civilization. And, if we obey God, he just may spare us from the judgment we deserve. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...p?pageId=64769

Notice how these apologists keeping pointing to "anti-mormon" literature, knowing the mere mention of "anti-mormon" will put a bad taste in people's mouths? I learned about Adam-God not from anti-mormons but from very believing sources. I have lost much respect for Mr. Robinson at this point and feel inclined to never spend my money purchasing one of his books.

Do they/you think we are so brainless to believe that it was only taught once in 1852? It is DOCUMENTED that he taught it over and over and over again. It is recorded in journals, minutes of priesthood meetings, editorials by BY to Deseret News, and in the original Lecture at the Veil. To try to imply that the Adam-God idea came from one misinterpreted speech in 1852 is VERY disingenuous at best and insults the intelligence of anyone with a brain.

I don't even get into "Adam-God" discussions anymore. Anyone who can't see that it was taught is just in complete denial and can't be reasoned with. Even Bruce McConkie admitted it was taught.

It concerns me when someone in the same breath says, "The Lord promised the church would never be taken again. " and "If they hadn't done this the church would've been destroyed." To quote a hero of mine... " And it came to pass that I spake unto my brethren, saying: "Let us go up again unto Jerusalem and let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord, For behold, He is mightier than all the earth; Then why not mightier than Laban and his fifty, yea, or even than his tens of thousands?" He is certainly stronger then the US Army. But what really concerns me is this statement... "The Lord compromised with the world, in order to accomplish His work." Since when does the Lord compromise with the world?

You seem rather worked up about this. Perhaps the subject should be dropped?

The OPer never had any question to begin with. I was only offering food for thought from the vocabulary used in the verses in question. I'll make sure and check out Mr. McConkie's opinion on the subject, but I am quite positive I understand LDS theory on the subject.

Called to serve him, heavenly king of e-bay Chosen ere to google for his name In Blogs and Groups we tell the Father's story Across the net his love proclaim.

Actually it was just "The Council" for along time. When Rulon Allred broke away he formed the Apostolic United Brethren and those that stayed with LeRoy Johnson incorporated under the United Effort Plan (something like that, I'm having a brain freeze) I think it was under Warren's father Rulon Jeff's that they came to call themselves the FLDS. My facts may be somewhat off, but it's along those lines. As for the RLDS they would argue that you broke away from them. And they are not and never have been polygamists.

It's no skin off my nose. I've seen him do far worse to others. It just gives me a resigned chuckle at this point.

I'm not exactly sure what that had to do with my post. I haven't ruled out the possibility of ending up in the Church of Christ in fact it's probably likely. I've meet them and the are wonderful very down to earth people. I'm still in study and prayer. Sometimes I may jump the gun on an idea, or get fired up about something. But I usually center back on the Church of Christ when I calm down. They are good patient people and aren't out to make quick baptisms, so I'm sure they'll bear with my while I work my ideas out. I don't pretend to have all the answers or to know if I'm even asking the right questions, but God knows me and he knows my heart, and he will lead me where he wants me to be sooner or later. So don't fret too much for me, trigger.

At least it was a beer that tastes good and not an "Old Milwaukee" commercial... yuck!