Justice

I guess you're going to have to show me where the scriptures teach this.

Yes, but your grandfather is spirit too. He is only spirit now, but he was spirit when he was mortal also, that can be proved by the fact that his body has no life without his spirit. He will still be spirit after he is resurrected, except that his body will no longer be able to die. Just because the scriptures say God is spirit, it does not prove God does not have a body. :)

We have the evidence that we are now mortal. Adam and Eve fell from their immortal state, meaning there was a consequence for a real act they made in transgression. God would never punish anyone as the result of an allegory. I believe Adam and Eve were both born as infants. :) All very good questions you ask, that I fear enough people don't ask themselves as they read the scriptures.

He doesn't want us to thank and praise Him for His benefit. He doesn't care if He ever hears a person tell Him He is good. Oddly enough, though, the only way we can come to know if God is good is to do what He tells us. When we do what He tells us we will come to know He is good and then we will be full of thankfulness, even to overflowing.

Lattelady, I sincerely believe that one cannot worship God without working for His cause. James 1: 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. This is why I cannot separate what we do from who we are. We are to become a better person through Christ, and what we choose to do with the time we've been given is the first and foremost indicator of what we're becoming, or who we are.

I really don't have a problem with answering questions honestly. If I felt Vort were up to foul play, as you suggest, all I would have to do is not respond. However, questions like this can help us center ourselves on where we are. It was interesting to study my thought process on where I ended up and how I got there. I can debate myself rather well. However, I feel if we are honest with ourselves in our responses, we can come to know ourselves a little better... and maybe make some necessary changes.

They way I see it is that if a church is true it would know it. If I were looking for a church I would only investigate a church that claimed it was the only true church.

So, it's as James said: Faith without works is dead. An inoperative faith can't save (which isn't even a real thing anyway), but faith with works saves. So, works are required in order to have faith, and since faith is required to be saved, then works are required also. Is that right?

That depends on your definition of healed. I had serious cuts when I was very small. I had scars for quite a while... but they are now gone. My belly button, although it's not an open wound, is still very much visible.

Good question. I do have an answer (an opinion), but I know better than giving it on an open forum. I'll keep my beliefs about stuff like this to myself from now on, but it is in the creation story. :)

It is not technically a scar. If it was "just" a scar, it would completely heal, since we have it from birth. Also, there would be no reason for him to have it if he wasn't born of a mother. I see no reason to believe he wasn't. In fact, every man ever born into this world was born of a mother, even the Son of God. I see no reason to think Adam wasn't born of a mother... just not a mother with a mortal body.

I feel the same way, PC. In fact, I feel so much so that I don't feel I could expect to face Him unless I give Him my all. Forget what it says in scripture (it can be misinterpreted), I'm just telling you how I feel inside. What nerve would it take to stand before God at judgment and claim to be ready to receive your free gift if you've done nothing about the testimony of Him you claim to have? I really don't want to turn this thread into another debate, I was just hoping Lattelady would explain how she understands the quote.

Has there been a man without one? I believe he did.

The doctrine is rooted in me. Every time I learn something new it's as if I knew it all along. I love the teachings of the the Church that are mostly unique to the Church (as far as Christians go anyway): Eternal families Pre-earth life Adam and Eve made the right choice We are literal chidlren of God ...on an on.

I'm not very good with "what if" questions. It's always hard for me to imagine what I would do in a set of circumstances. It seems I always think I won't do something, but end up surprising myself. I think when we look ahead things seems worse or harder than they really are when faced with them. In any case, as presented, I'd have to say it's not 1. I don't think the Bishop can change Church policy, all he can do is be sure his members follow it to the best of their ability. An authority above the bishop would know if I was to be asked that. But, maybe I'm just making excuses for my lack of faith.

Had it not been for God doing the humane thing and destroying wickness from among us (Sodom, Gamorrah, the flood) we would have killed ourselves off many, many years ago. Read Ether in the Book of Mormon.

I guess I misunderstand. As we have all been saying grace is not free (or cheap), you have been one of the biggest proponents of "grace is free" and we don't have to do anything to get it. Am I confused?

With animals it's all instincts. We have the ability to reason, analyze our behavior, and change it. You really can't compare them to us. They have no morals. They just survive. They don't make the effort to lie to one another, steal, or cheat. They just follow their instincts. We would not meet the level of our creation if that's all we did.

Yes, and the other thing I find interesting is that the Chief Judge asks Korihor if he expected the sign to be given to someone else, implying so someone else would be the guinea pig... while he got his sign.

I was trying to find the lyrics to a song I remembered from my youth. I found it on the church web site. “Who am I, this being that I am, who walks the earth midst beings as myself? Born was I of parents; who are they? Why do I exist to walk a while and then depart? Who am I, who takes up time and space, Who motions vacillate, some bad some good, Who feels the null and void of all of this, without the question answered, who am I? By happenchance have I come about by some ornate confusion? By happenchance have I grown from rudimentary species eons past evolved? By happenchance? By happenchance am I a worthless piece of thing So dross, so void, so much of nothingness that when I pass, My passing is just passing into past? Who am I? This is who I am! My spirit lived with my Father before the earth was formed. … I am a child of my Father. I am a child of God.” Link to article: LDS.org - New Era Article - Songs Sung Backstage and in Balconies What's more interesting is that this song seems to have been written for the Oakland Temple Pageant in 1977. That's where I learned this song as a youth... in the Oakland Temple Pageant! I was in it (or at least I remember practicing for it)! The memories that brought back! Anyway, I think the lyrics express some of what I feel about life. It's a beautiful song... I wish there was a link where I could listen to it.

Beyond a doubt... It's clear the early church understood much of what's been restored in these latter days.

I think we have the counsel and teaching on what the church feels a proper fast is. It is 24 hours, or 2 meals. They always include a disclaimer that if you have health or other related problems to adjust your fast period accordingly (I take that to mean a shorter time not a longer one). Now, if you have a particularly trying problem and after 24 hours you do not feel resolution, maybe you make a personal decision to fast another meal. However, what I have always done is make that the focus of another fast the next month (or next week if it couldn't wait). Also, in scripture, I believe a fast was a fast. I do not believe they ate at the end of the day then started over the next, and called it one fast. As soon as you eat your time starts anew. In any case, I do feel it an essential part of the fast to give to those in need through fast offerings. It's important to remember that, as with all teachings of the church, it is meant for spiritual growth, and any physical benefits to be gained are secondary.

What MoE said. The only thing I would add is I once saw a bishop not accept a temple recommend from a gentlemen he did not know and required him to get a recommend to perform an ordinance from his own bishop. So, if you're wanting to perform a baptism where the bishop does not know you, it's best to get the recommend from your bishop. It could save some hassle and heart-ache.

PC, that's the billion dollar question. Technically, I'm sure there are many answers. People have different reasons for making bad choices. But, I'll never forget a personal interview I had with an awesome individual. He asked me why people doin't do their Home Teaching. I think that question could be broad, anmd encompass everything you mentioned, PC. His answer, as always, hit the nail on the head. He said, "Because they're not fully converted to the Lord."

I was reading in Alma this morning and Alma's words may apply here (he is speaking to Korihor): Alma 30: 37 And then Alma said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God? 38 And he answered, Nay. 40 And now what evidence have ye that there is no God, or that Christ cometh not? I say unto you that ye have none, save it be your word only. 41 But, behold, I have all things as a testimony that these things are true; and ye also have all things as a testimony unto you that they are true; and will ye deny them? Believest thou that these things are true? 43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words. 44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator. 48 Now Korihor said unto him: I do not deny the existence of a God, but I do not believe that there is a God; and I say also, that ye do not know that there is a God; and except ye show me a sign, I will not believe. 49 Now Alma said unto him: This will I give unto thee for a sign, that thou shalt be struck dumb, according to my words; and I say, that in the name of God, ye shall be struck dumb, that ye shall no more have utterance. 50 Now when Alma had said these words, Korihor was struck dumb, that he could not have utterance, according to the words of Alma. 51 And now when the chief judge saw this, he put forth his hand and wrote unto Korihor, saying: Art thou convinced of the power of God? In whom did ye desire that Alma should show forth his sign? Would ye that he should afflict others, to show unto thee a sign? Behold, he has showed unto you a sign; and now will ye dispute more? All things do witness that there is a God. I know that God lives. Yes, I have felt Him, but I have also seen His creations and read His scriptures. There are signs enough. I ask for no more.