ryanh

Mirium, it sounds like too much worry about something that may never come to pass. Do something about it rather than just wondering "what-if?". Discuss it with him. Make your wishes known, and ask for his help and support. If he doesn't cooperate, then deal with that issue at that time, but don't waste your energy on it now.

There is a thread that deals with at least a portion of the questions you have. See http://www.lds.net/forums/parenting/15995-should-we-take-away-our-19-year-olds-phone-car.html

Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not - M. Russel Ballard

I was not discounting mindfulness. I said, in the part you quoted, to watch out for therapists that think that any one technique will solve all problems. The one therapist encounter was simply an example, and could have been any therapy technique. Make sure the therapist is skilled enough to have a variety of tools to offer so that one appropriate for the situation can be applied.

Absolutely. Anti-depressants, when properly applied to appropriate situations, are medications to alleviate physical problems in the body so that our own Soul (the joint being of body and spirit) is not hampered by the body’s physical limitation. One's own spirit is able to shine through when the chemical imbalances are corrected, and yes, one feels the Spirit - even moreso. Same goes for non-depression mental illnesses such as ADHD. As other have said, it sounds like your friend is either 1) on the wrong dose (sounds to be too high IMO), or 2) that particular med just isn't the one that works right for her body/condition. Time to go back to the doc. She might consider seeing a psychiatrist if she hasn't and has only been seeing a family dr. True with some. The SSRI's are notorious for that, however, everyone reacts differently.

Look up dysthymia.

I see. Why do you think God gave us the Bible and the Book of Mormon, then? And why do you think he communicates with people through prayer at all? By your logic, it seems God should hide himself from us completely. Then, we would have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever that he exists, and the need for faith would be even greater! YAY FAITH!Just a quick reply to one part, then I need to do some other chores at home.The Father didn't want to leave us clueless here on earth without any knowledge. Even with the existance of scriptures, it still takes faith to feel that there might be more to this life than just the mortal life, and to feel and recognize that the scriptures are real, and that God exists. Just because we receive very clear answers to prayers doesn't mean that faith is no longer necessary. I still need lots of faith even though I feel I have received very clear promptings and answers.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is a canonical answer for your final questions as to why. It’s central to the plan, but our full comprehension of it isn’t central to our salvation. So any answers you get will be more generalities and/or opinions. What we do know is that our Father in Heaven wanted for us everything He had. And there was only one way for that to happen. There couldn’t be a fullness of happiness for anyone were we to remain in our premortal state. It’s easier for me to grasp ‘why’ when I try to liken it to my own children. At 22, I suppose you don’t have children yet, but I think you can imagine the same feelings. What if, when we or our children reached 18, 19, 20, 30 years old were not allowed to venture out on their own, get their own place and job, support themselves, etc. Sound like a suitable arrangement? Esp if they were being forced to remain at home and dependent until old age? I don’t really think that the premortal existence is completely analogous, but it helps me make sense of ‘why did we have to leave?’. I’ve actually thought about this from a different angle for a while now. This is purely my own opinion. But it seems clearly evident that not all children of God were created equal. All were intelligences, but, intelligence doesn’t equal goodness. I suppose in some capacity, Heavenly Father could understand what would be the result for each and every spirit child were His plan to be implemented. Still, even though He knew some intelligences would be lost, that wasn’t a reason to deny the remaining an opportunity for greater happiness. It seems evident to me that each intelligence had differing levels of goodness. Just look at the people on the earth today. Some are amazing. In recent history there have been the likes of Mother Theresa and Mahatma Gandhi. Others, like Ted Bundy or Charles Manson were so evil it is hard to imagine. Now, I suppose that Heavenly Father, with His omnipotence could have simply assigned all of His spirit children to a degree of glory according to that which they merited, and given them a body as well. But, I can well imagine that those children assigned to less than the highest degrees of glory might not be able to understand why, or might feel it is not fair. So, (again, just the way I think about it) the situation was set up where we would come to an earth and have no recollection of our premortal existence, and thereby test the true nature of what we are. Some spirits are stellar. Like Jesus Christ. He was such an amazing spirit that he could hardly be kept from sensing His Father, the work He was to do, and so strong He never sinned. Some of us either aren’t that inherently good, and/or just are not as old/advanced as He is. Some spirits are not so stellar, and prove themselves not worthy to be in the presence of the Father when they are no longer innocent and unknowing. I see the earthly experience as a great sorter and sifter to show the true nature of who we are. Many of us may not be really faithful spirits, we are weak and fail a lot, but that is not what matters so much IMO. We will have eternities to develop and become stronger. What is important is how much we love our Father, and if our spirits are sensitive to His will and promptings. There may have been countless intelligences faithful enough not to have followed Lucifer in the great war in heaven, but that doesn’t mean they are good enough to merit receiving all that the Father hath. When those ‘in between’ intelligences (not wholly evil, and not wholly good) are put in this test state to see “if they will bdo all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them” Abraham 3:25 (see below), they don’t feel the Father and don’t seek out that which is good. Anyway, that’s just the way I have thought about it for the last couple weeks as I’ve pondered the plan. Hope it was of use to consider. THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM CHAPTER 3

Wow that must have been stressful having him standing so close right behind you! So glad you were smart enough to plan ahead and have your friends there. I'm also glad he got caught breaking the order. Hopefully he gets picked up and put in jail soon.

Well, there's plenty of us here that would help. What's up? Send me a pm if you wish - I'll do whatever I can to help, but you might classify me as "old". lol Hopefully not "too old" :)

Often, these types of spamming are simply forms of advertising. It is about $$$.

Use third party resources. Two I know of that would fit what you are looking to acomplish would be the book The Five Love Languages, and the website Marriagebuilders.com Both are great resources to help you target your efforts at showing her love in the manner that means the most to her. Plus, to find out what means the most to her, you will need to ask her to fill out a questionnaire or two - what better way to 1) show her you do love her and are trying to do what is best, and 2) introduce her to the resource that both address love is a choice/action in mature marriages more than it is 'just something that happens or is/isn't there'.

I fully appreciate that there are roles and needs for social/family services by government, but I can't believe the number of stories of outright lies and overzeallous acts perpertrated against good people. I'm not talking hypa dn new stories, but proven in courts of law. It should never happen. So sorry you have to deal with that, but glad you have your ducks in a row to refute the garbage. Good thing judges have to sign off on social services suggestions. Glad you have friends to help too. Is it still the plan to have your daughter stay with your parents?

Exactly what I wondered when I read her post.

Honestly? I think of myself as pretty dense and coarse at times, but still I thought that presentation of your ideas were lacking sensitivity or understanding. Ooof, there's a nice poke in the eye!

Below is the second part of a two part article from marriagebuilders.com. When to Call It Quits Pt 2 Last week, I addressed one of the problems that unconditional love can create -- neglect. Many of those who believe that love should be unconditional in marriage feel justified in failing to meet their spouses' emotional needs. I described what spouses usually do when faced with neglect -- they end up having affairs or getting divorced. Those who stay married usually remain unfulfilled for the rest of their lives. Then, I explained what spouses should do when they've been emotionally neglected. It begins with an effort to respectfully persuade a spouse to meet important emotional needs. But when that doesn't work, I recommend the very controversial step of separation until the most important emotional needs are met. I help couples avoid calling it quits, not by teaching them how to endure disappointment and suffering, but by encouraging them to insist on having a mutually fulfilling marriage. My approach to the topic of neglect may seem radical to many, because they don't see marital neglect as a serious enough problem to warrant separation. But the alternative for many is to eventually call it quits when an earlier separation would have saved their marriage. This week, however, my advice to separate will be easier to accept because it involves another serious problem that unconditional love can create -- abuse. In this case, you may feel that separation is too risky, that divorce should be the answer. But as you'll see, even in cases of physical abuse, I don't recommend throwing in the towel until an abusive spouse has been given plenty of opportunity to reform. Towel-throwing should take place only after reasonable efforts to reconcile have been exhausted. As I mentioned last week, I've come to the conclusion that 80% of all divorces are caused by neglect -- important emotional needs are not being met. You'd think that abuse would be the major contributor, but it's not. In fact, physical abuse accounts for only about 2 1/2 percent of divorces. So while the wife who wrote last week about neglect appears to be in a reasonably safe and normal marriage, she's far more likely to call it quits than the writer of today's letter who is the victim of physical abuse. - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dear Dr. Harley, I loved your article on unconditional love, and I completely agree with you. I am, however one of the stupid ones that has tried to love my husband unconditionally. I always seem to find some sort of hope, even when there shouldn't be any. My husband is physically and emotionally abusive to me. He's more than twice my size with a very bad temper. During his temper tantrums he will sometimes rip off his shirt and hit himself in the head while I wonder if I'll be next. Right now he is on a 1 month deployment to Afghanistan. The other night I told him that I missed him. He got mad at me and asked why. When I said that I couldn't wait for him to hold me again, he said that he wasn't in the "family mood" and he wouldn't be very approachable when he returned. I thought he needed to hear that I loved him unconditionally. It backfired. I hope that you continue to write on this topic as I feel I am the prime subject for this kind of article. I do truly believe that loving unconditionally has been my greatest downfall. Thanks for all the great insight you give. Sometimes your emails are the only thing that keeps me from feeling like I'm nothing, and I can see how things are supposed to be. E.W. - - - - - - Dear E.W. In a way, it's understandable that the problems facing soldiers in Afghanistan might take some of them out of the "family mood." I have witnessed many who come back very depressed after a deployment. The Army and Marines are trying very hard to help returning soldiers deal with the emotional fallout of their tour of duty. You may feel that your husband may be a victim of the harsh conditions of the battlefield. Unconditional love sometimes seems to be the most appropriate response to someone like your husband. Maybe your love will lift him out of the depression he experiences, and may eventually help him overcome his abusive behavior. By telling your husband that you miss him and that you can't wait for him to hold you, you may feel that it will raise his spirits. He will appreciate your warmth, and respond with a similarly warm reaction. But you're sending the wrong message. He is being led to assume that it's his response of "so what?" that makes you love him. After all, when he is abusive, you keep loving him. You are rewarding bad behavior. His cold response to your effort to love him unconditionally is proof that it's misguided. Whenever a spouse becomes physically abusive, even when it's not even close to being life-threatening, it's time to pack your bags. My standard advice for even the mildest forms of physical abuse is separation until the abuser completes a course in anger management, and takes personal responsibility for all forms of abuse, physical or verbal. If you take that important step in response to his abuse, you send the right message -- you will not tolerate abusive behavior. Many abused wives find my advice to be impractical because they're too dependent on their husbands. It's like walking out of a lion's cage and off a cliff. Would you rather take your chances with the lion than suffer a fatal fall? Separation, of course, isn't really a fall off a cliff, but for many abused women it seems that way. To further complicate the matter, an abusive spouse usually measures his or her abuse so it's not quite enough to warrant separation. And those who occasionally cross the line usually offer sincere apologies after an attack. An appeal for forgiveness often settles the matter and almost guarantees yet another abusive incident. Some abused wives have lost so much confidence in themselves that they feel that they deserve some of their husband's abuse. What if you separate and your husband refuses to take responsibility for his abuse? Would you blame yourself? Since dependency is often at the root of an abusive relationship, when you find yourself being physically or even verbally abused, your highest priority should be to end the dependency as quickly as possible so that you can separate. In last week's newsletter on the topic of neglect, I offered an example of how a wife can go about preparing for separation -- getting a higher paying job, saving money, and looking for a comfortable apartment. When neglect is the problem, she can take her time to make the separation comfortable for her. But abuse is a different matter. In many cases I've witnessed, taking too much time has led to permanent injury and even death. So you should put your plans to separate on the fast track. During the 1960s and 1970s, feminists warned women to avoid the "trap" of marriage. By becoming financially dependent on a husband, a woman risked losing her identity and failing to reach her potential in life. For many women, especially those married to abusive husbands, they were right. But today, wives are not nearly as financially dependent on their husbands as they were 50 years ago. And there are many more programs to help abused wives become self-supporting. So when a wife finds herself married to an abusive husband, she is not really trapped. There are many escape routes. I strongly advise you to talk with a chaplain in your husband's base immediately, and explain how your husband has been treating you. I don't know all the facts regarding your situation, and there may be some aspects of my advice that would be inappropriate. The chaplain would be able to sort it all out, and come to a decision that guarantees your safety while also taking into account the fallout from your husband's battlefield experiences. He or she will have already heard your story from many other wives of soldiers who have been deployed, and will probably have some good advice for you. If you bring your husband's problem into the open, especially in the army, it will encourage your husband to do something about it. Tell the chaplain or counselor he or she recommends that you plan to separate when your husband returns, primarily because of his abuse. But make it clear that you don't want to upset your husband while deployed, or make his depression even worse when he returns by separating from him. The chaplain might be able to help you separate in a way that gives your husband encouragement while he guides him in treatment for his anger. When I counsel wives of abusive husbands who are not in the armed services, and don't have the resources to break their dependence, I recommend help from women's shelters. They provide counseling, employment opportunities, housing, legal services, and many other forms of support that help break the dependency that makes these women so vulnerable to abuse. But I usually give a word of caution: Most women's shelters don't try to help an abused wife repair her marriage. They're great when it comes to providing her safety, but not so great in giving the abusive husband help in overcoming his angry outbursts and restoring his marriage. You have one month to plan your escape, and you'll have plenty of help from the armed services. Your biggest obstacle will be self-doubt -- wondering if you're doing the right thing. But if you remind yourself that abusive marriages, especially those with even the slightest amount of physical abuse, are so dangerous that they should never be tolerated, you'll have confidence that you must separate. If your husband is given professional help in learning to control his temper, and he proves to you that he can handle frustration intelligently instead of emotionally, you can then live together in peace. In the meantime, don't tell your husband again that you miss him or can't wait for him to hold you. Instead, while he's deployed keep your conversation fact-oriented. If he asks what's wrong with you, tell him that you are going though a period of soul-searching. Your husband's angry outbursts demonstrate a fact that I've expressed for years -- it's temporary insanity. You have no idea what he's capable of doing to you when he's angry. When your husband rips off his shirt and hits his head in anger, he's not in control of himself. His safety and yours are at risk. The first step in overcoming angry outbursts is to recognize that they are not controlled by others -- we control our own angry outbursts. Granted, others may frustrate us, and our experiences, such as being deployed in Afghanistan, may make us feel angry. But an angry outburst is entirely our own responsibility. Once your husband accepts that fact, he can then learn how to control his emotional reaction to frustration and solve his problems intelligently. Anger management training for your husband will not only save your marriage, but it will also improve your husband's potential in the future. It will make him a happier and more successful person. Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Below is the first part of a two part article from marriagebuilders.com When to Call It Quits Pt 1 The concept of unconditional love in marriage usually refers to a spouse's lifelong commitment to care for the other spouse regardless of what the other spouse does. I'm in favor of a lifelong commitment to care regardless of unfavorable circumstances (health problems, financial setbacks, and other factors outside a couple's control that can negatively impact a marriage). But I'm opposed to a lifelong commitment to care for a spouse when that spouse makes marriage-wrecking choices. It tends to give such people unrealistic expectations of entitlement -- that they should be cared for, regardless of their willingness to care in return. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love. In this Q&A column, I'll feature a letter I received from a spouse who was told to love unconditionally. Her husband has failed to meet her emotional needs, and is unwilling to do anything about it. Next week, I'll feature a letter from a wife whose husband has been physically and emotionally abusive. Both of these women want to know when enough is enough. When should they call it quits? On the subject of neglect, I've chosen to feature a marriage that isn't all that bad from most people's perspective, but isn't good either. L.R.'s husband hasn't abandoned her physically, leaving her to fend for herself. Instead, he's only abandoned her emotionally. They probably even have a friendship of sorts. It's cases like these that leave a wife struggling to know what to do. As it turns out, most of these women divorce their husbands. In fact, research I've personally conducted in the archives of government statistics on the causes of divorce lead me to believe that as many as 80% of all divorces are caused by neglect. Women like L.R. suddenly call it quits with little warning, leaving her husband, family and friends scratching their heads wondering what's wrong with her. In this Q&A column, I describe what spouses usually do when faced with neglect, and then I explain what spouses should do. My approach is radical, and very controversial. But keep in mind the point I've just made-80% of divorces are caused by neglect. There's a much higher risk of divorce in marriages where spouses are not meeting each other's emotional needs than there is in all the marriages that suffer from physical and verbal abuse, chemical dependency, unemployment, and all other causes combined. Dear Dr. Harley, I just want to say thank you for your column on unconditional love. It explains a lot and eliminates a lot of confusion for me personally. Additionally, I will tell you that all you said bears witness with my experience in 20 years of marriage thus far. So....as I read all you said, my marriage experience lines up with it. You're right. We have half of the recipe for being in love. My husband does nothing to hurt me. But he also does nothing to meet any of my important emotional needs. When I tell him that I want more from him emotionally, he tells me that he believes in unconditional love. I am not to require more of him emotionally because he doesn't know how to give it, and he doesn't want to learn. So I live emotionally disconnected from him. All my efforts over our 20 years together to grow together have failed because he believes in unconditional love. It is a great relief for me to have you explain all of this, but what can I do about it? Am I stuck with a man who doesn't hurt me, but also doesn't meet any of my emotional needs? L. R. - - - - - - Dear L. R. You've witnessed my greatest objection to the concept of unconditional love: It makes people think they shouldn't have to do anything to be loved. When you complain about your husband's failure to meet important emotional needs, he says, "So what! You should love me regardless of what I do." Countless marriages face the same problem. One or both spouses feel that they're entitled to love, so they do what they please, which usually ruins their marriage. What can be done about it? Here are the options. First, I'll tell you what most people do, and then I'll explain what should be done. The most common first response to a spouse's neglect is to complain: "I'd like it if you'd be more affectionate." A complaint is an effort to communicate a problem without being demanding, disrespectful, or angry. It's a notification there's an opportunity to make deposits (or avoid withdrawals) from the Love Bank. There's nothing wrong with that initial approach to the problem of neglect since it's simply communicating a need. But when that doesn't produce results, mistakes usually follow. The first mistake is to criticize: "Why do you ignore me? What's wrong with you?" A criticism adds demands, disrespect, and/or anger to the complaint. The message of an unmet emotional need is buried under layers of abuse. Instead of creating a cooperative partner, it creates an adversary. When criticism fails, and it almost always does, the next step is usually to stop meeting the other spouse's emotional needs: "If you won't meet my emotional needs, I won't meet yours." And that usually means sex. It seems fair at the time, but as with criticism it usually doesn't work and leads to a steady deterioration of the relationship. Spouses start living independent lives, sleeping in different rooms, going on separate vacations, having separate friends, separate checking accounts, separate recreational activities - they become ships passing in the night. At this point, they often make the biggest mistake of their lives-one or both spouses have an affair. There are no excuses for infidelity, but the reason most people give for having an affair is that their intimate emotional needs (affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship) are not being met in marriage. And since 60% of all marriages experience that extremely painful betrayal, this response to unmet emotional needs, which is common in marriage, is almost a certainty. When a complaint doesn't work, and criticism doesn't work, and independent lifestyles don't work, and an affair doesn't work, then there's always divorce as a final answer to the question, "What should you do if your spouse isn't meeting your emotional needs?" There's little reason to fake it anymore. The marriage is broken, so why pretend that you're still married? L.R., it doesn't sound as if you've reached the point in your marriage where you're thinking about divorce, or even having an affair. So let me take you back to the beginning, and give you the steps I'd recommend to help you get what you need in your marriage. The first step, as I mentioned earlier, should be to express your need clearly without demands, disrespect, or anger. Invite your husband to complete the Emotional Needs Questionnaire with you that can be copied from the Questionnaires section of the Marriage Builders® website. After you have each described your most important emotional needs, the book ,"His Needs, Her Needs," will help you learn to meet those needs for each other. The accompanying workbook, "Five Steps to Romantic Love," provides worksheets that will help you both implement a plan to turn need -- fulfilling behavior into habits. This first step may solve your problem. Your husband may respond positively to your request, and the issue of unconditional love may not become a factor in his thinking. What I'm recommending is a focused appeal. Instead of just asking him to read a book, you're asking him to fill out a questionnaire that will help you understand each other better. Then, the book will help you solve any problems that come to light after reading each other's answers. It might work. But if your husband refuses to accept your offer, the next step I recommend is very controversial, but when you compare it to the alternatives, it makes the most sense. It has two parts. I call one part plan A, and the other plan B. These two parts are to be executed sequentially -- plan A is first, followed by plan B. Plan A is to give your husband "unconditional love" for a brief period of time, usually a month. I know. I've just written two columns that warn against unconditional love. But I've never been opposed to its use if it's intended to prime the pump. One spouse can't save a marriage, but one spouse can often set an example that the other spouse will sometimes follow. Plan A is to avoid all Love Busters, and to meet the other spouse's emotional needs without expecting anything in return immediately. But it also involves communicating the importance of reciprocity. Along with being an angel, you also explain that you expect your needs to eventually be met, too. But before you begin plan A, prepare for plan B, which is to completely separate from your husband. You can't simply move out of the bedroom. You must move from the house, or have him move. If you live in a state that supports legal separation, go to the trouble to see an attorney so that all financial and legal arrangements are made in advance. Be sure that you can support yourself for an extended period of time, such as a year. If you have young children, I would advise you to require your husband to move, and for you to remain in the home with your children. If the children are grown, I'd advise you to move and pick a living space that is cheerful and uplifting. You'll go through quite a few emotional ups and downs and the place you live can be either inspiring or depressing. Make sure it's inspiring. I know that this sounds like a drastic measure, but it's amazing how quickly time passes. Before you know it, you'll have been married not 20 years, but 40 years, and you'll be facing the same problems. As an illustration of how this is to be done, I'll describe how a woman I counseled, Ellen, went through that experience, and ended up having a very affectionate and romantic husband. Ellen contacted me with essentially the same complaint that you described in your letter. Her husband, Ken, was not abusive, but didn't meet her intimate emotional needs. She is a Christian, but told me that she was very tempted to have an affair or divorce her husband. She wanted to avoid both possibilities. After Ellen agreed to follow my plan A/plan B approach, it took her almost a year to prepare for plan B. She saw an attorney, saved some money, got a better paying job, and found an apartment that appealed to her. About one month before she was ready to implement plan B, she poured on the charm with plan A, all the while encouraging Ken to join her in learning how to meet each others emotional needs. Ken loved all the attention (and sex) he was getting, but remained firm in his conviction that he shouldn't have to learn to meet her emotional needs. He believed in unconditional love. After a month had passed, when Ken returned home from work, there was a note on the kitchen table from Ellen. She explained that she loved him, and wanted their marriage to be successful. But because the relationship was one -- sided, with she doing all the giving, and he doing all the taking, she decided that it was time to do something about it. If he wanted to talk with her, she could be reached on her cell phone. I had explained to Ellen how her husband would probably react at first: He would throw a fit. And that's precisely what happened. He told her that he was filing for divorce, and that she was now on her own. I also predicted what might happen next: After he had a chance to cool off, he'd want to have sex with her. That also happened right on schedule after two weeks had passed. My advice to her was that she should agree to it only after he saw a counselor with her that would take them through "His Needs, Her Needs." Since her husband hated me after he learned that I was the architect of this plan, I suggested that she find a local counselor who was familiar with my books and methods, which she did. Sometimes, especially when an unfaithful spouse refuses to end an affair, I recommend no contact at all for plan B. If he wants to contact her, he must talk through a designated mediator. But in this case, I didn't feel that a mediator was necessary and that Ellen could talk with Ken by cell phone. He didn't know her address, however. Plan B ended with the first counseling session. Ellen gave Ken her address and they planned to meet regularly to complete the lessons. Ken wanted Ellen to move back to their home immediately, but I recommended that she wait until they were meeting each other's intimate emotional needs almost effortlessly. It turned out that they were separated for about a year because while Ken wanted Ellen with him, he resisted learning the new habits that would meet her emotional needs. He agreed to do everything that was recommended while in the counseling office, but then didn't always follow through on the assignments. But Ellen was in no hurry to return home. She made it clear to Ken that until their new habits were in place she'd remain separated from him. Fifteen hours a week of undivided attention, using the time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment, was the goal. And they had to practice it until it became almost effortless for both of them. Then, she'd return home. Toward the end of their program, they would spend the night with each other on a fairly regular basis. He'd be with her, or she'd be with him. So the transition back to living together was almost seamless, and they continue to have a romantic relationship to this day. But what can be done if your husband does not respond the way Ken responded to Ellen? What if he refuses counseling? What if he makes no effort to draw you back into a relationship with him? What if he threatens to have an affair, or divorce you? There's the possibility that your husband will not want you to return. He may be happy that you've left. Separation is always a dangerous step to take because it often leads to an affair or divorce. But what are the alternatives? Some people wait and hope for a change of heart. But as I mentioned earlier, time can go by very quickly. Before you know it, 20 more years will have passed without any improvement. It's sad to consider how many people put up with a loveless marriage and simply live independently. In fact, about 20% of all married couples die having been separated for many years. And while another 20% continue to live together, they don't have much of a relationship -- it's like your marriage. Only about 20% have a romantic relationship throughout marriage-they meet each other's intimate emotional needs. If you want to be among the 20% that are happily married, you may need to do something drastic-like follow my plan. Or you will become one of the 20% that live together unfulfilled (like you are now), the 20% that stay married, but eventually separate for the rest of their lives together (like you may end up), or the remaining 40% who throw in the towel and divorce. I strongly encourage you to be among the 20% with a very fulfilling marriage. While your husband may not like my plan at first, especially if you separate from him, if it succeeds, he will be a much happier man. He will come to recognize, as you do, that a great marriage requires a mutual effort. Both spouses must take their marital responsibilities seriously by meeting each other's intimate emotional needs. Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.

These are the posts that are really hard for me to read. All too familiar. I want to support marriage, but I find it so difficult when giving advice in such situations. Are you sure that depression is the only thing going on? I suppose it could account for a lot of the behaviors, but there seems to be more going on than that. I have fought with depression for a very long time. Longer than many posters on this site have been alive. I know what it is like. Even though I think I can appreciate that everyone's situation and condition is different, the clothes and toenails, along with the manipulative guilt trips and lying don't 'feel' like they have depression at their root. After 14 years of marriage, I have never been able to get past that feeling of being tricked and manipulated into marriage when, 6 weeks into marriage, as if a switch flipped, she became a very different person. I suppose that were your h to get treated right away, it might be possible for you to get past this period as just a bad time. But let me tell you - after several years, the bitterness gets ingrained and impossible to shake. Don't let it get to that state. Yes, perhaps you have been enabling him a little bit. But the past doesn't matter nearly so much as what you do from here going forward. My dear sister, I think you should turn and run with all your might. This marriage was a mistake. I don’t believe that turning away from a mistake is a sin. (See Elder Oaks’ Sins and Mistakes and Divorce conference talks). Now that you know it is not moving toward a celestial marriage, time to get out and find one that will. He has already given you the answer needed - he refuses to get help for something that even a depressed person knows is abnormal.

All good quotes that apply to 90-95% of the populace - the main stream. But what do you say 3% to the schizophrenics that can't control the thoughts that enter their mind? How about Bipolar? ADHD? Clinically depressed? Do you count them as weak and damned? It would be nice to see advice given that is not so absolute, but contemplates the reality of life and various situations. The advice given by you from the beginning of this thread has rubbed me wrong as overly critical and condemning. Why berate someone for setting up a safetynet? Makes no sense to me.

Jack, since thinking about the topic, I thought I would give my opinion/advice for anyone looking for professional mental health help. This isn't really directed towards you, just more general advice. Family or general practice Dr’s can help diagnose and treat (with medication) depression. Never a bad place to start to ask the Doc “is there something wrong with my feeling x, y, and z?”. The Dr can help rule out other factors that play a role (like thyroid, sleep apnea, female hormones, etc). Two potential downsides are: 1) they are not specialists in mental health issues, and 2) the primary tool in their arsenal is to prescribe a med, see if it helps, if not, try another, see if it helps, . . . See a Psychiatrist. Psychiatrists can be hard to find (there seems to be a shortage in UT for sure), but can be well worth the visit if the primary care Dr has ruled out other potential causes. Psychiatrists are medical doctors that specialize in mental health. As Dr’s, they can prescribe meds. The obvious benefit of a psychiatrist is their specialization and familiarity with mental health issues and nuances. Not a bad place to start for a diagnosis IMO. Psychologists are non-medical therapists. Some are Ph.D.’s (but generally cannot prescribe medication), others have a Masters (such as clinical social workers). Often referred to collectively as therapists or counselors as many these days are not Ph.D.s. I know that at least in UT, there are a few therapists that have chosen to obtain Advanced Practice Registered Nurse status, and thus can practice mental health counseling as well as prescribe medications. There is a wide variety of therapists/counselors available. Some are specialists, some are ‘general practice’. It really is tough to select a good therapist as you have to consider their specialty (do you need someone familiar with depression or ADHD, or someone specializes in marriage therapy, etc), their level of experience and education (Ph.D. vs other), their methods of therapy (see my comments above – some have lots of tools, some only know one key on the piano), personality fit, etc, etc. I’ve met a few therapists that were not even close to being worth their hourly charge. Did nothing but act as a sounding board – but sometimes that is what is needed, so they have a place too. I wouldn’t necessarily suggest starting with a therapist/counselor as a persons first stop with mental health issues. However, if your issues are interpersonal, such as marriage conflict, they are probably the best first stop. There are some really good psychologists out there though, and they can help you know when your issues are simply behavioral, and when it is appropriate to seek medical help. But, in my limited experience, some psychologists believe that meds are never necessary, and that is a dangerous position from my point of view (if that were true, then psychiatry should be a dying profession). Bottom line of my opinion: If there is any possibility of there being a medical issue, see your family Dr first to rule out various medical issues, and get advice to determine if seeing a specialist is warranted. BUT, if you are not happy with the answer you get, or don’t believe you got a through consideration, seek a second opinion (I’ve seen it several times where the family Dr dismissed serious mental health issues as “normal”. Post-partum depression often falls into this category.) If your are unsure if the root of the problems is just errant or maladaptive thought patterns, or are simply interpersonal in nature, seek out a psychologist as your first stop. Marriage is hard enough without untreated mental health issues creating additional problems. Either way, get help and find out what the root problems are. Rule out all possibilities. And for the naysayers, the brain is an organ just like any other organ in the body. It is subject to chemical imbalances and improper functioning. There are many times that problems are not so simple as changing behavior or thought patterns. Just like diabetes, there are chemical imbalances that need to be treated at times. Mental illness is simply a handicap that prevents a persons true spirit from being able to fully be expressed.

Yeah, that's what all us guy's think/feel - and then BAM! right out of the blue you no longer have any control over the situation and cannot heal it. If she's that unhappy, I'd consider the possibility of divorce very, very real.Finding an appropriate therapist, esp in UT, is a real crap-shoot. I would definitely speak to your Bishop to get recommendations of good therapists. Word of mouth, like you are seeking here, is invaluable. Your Bishop, if he has been in place for very long, should have encountered several similar situations and received feedback about various therapists. It doesn't hurt to interview a number of them before committing to see one. Ask them about their methods of therapy, areas they specialize in, expected course of treatment, etc, etc. Avoid those who only use talk therapy (unless you just want a paid friend to listen), and avoid those that only have one trick or claim that a method can solve everything (once had a guy try to talk my wife out of taking her psychiatrist prescribed meds because he felt that mindfulness could solve *anything* That really helped our marriage – NOT! ) You might consider finding a therapist that is an APRN – they can not only provide therapy, but can prescribe medication, if appropriate, and then you don’t have to make additional appointments with a psychiatrist (who can prescribe, but typically doesn’t counsel) or family doctor. If your wife wants to meet a person that IMO is a great psychologist (a true PhD, not one of the plethora of LCSWs here in the valley), I have a name for you I can send in a PM. He is not LDS, but his understanding of the drivers of emotions and issues is very good. Top notch IMO. Personally, I would advise separate therapists for individual and marital issues (if you do get another marital therapist). I’ve seen complications from mixing the two. From the very little you have mentioned, it would seem appropriate that she be screened for depression. Just a guess from several hints in what you write. What else have you and your wife tried as far as creating a greater connection that she may feel is missing? Have either of you read The Five Love Languages or other relationship help books?

And here I thought that my first car - a '74 Peugot 504 was an ugly car!!! You take the cake on that one Pam. Was it those nasty 60's-70's colors too?

I miss driving sticks. Even miss the adventure of driving a really old semi tow truck that you had to double-clutch. Here's how I got the feel of a clutch when I first learned to drive - in a flat parking lot, practice getting moving without ever touching the throttle. Just use the clutch, slowly letting it out until fully engaged. Do that for a bit, and your starts will soon become much more smooth when you do use the throttle to actually accelerate. It's all about muscle memory about where the engaging point is. PS - don't keep your left foot on the clutch pedal all the time. You will wear out your throw bearing.

Hi Moving_on. Welcome. Feeling love and respect for oneself, and being happy with who you are, is something I've been reading up on lately - for myself, and a few people I know. I'm not sure I could lay it out there succintly, and I haven't found any one great resource, but I can throw a few articles and sites your direction to read. I'll have to gather and organize some of them. Sorry to hear of your travails. Ryan

How about you ask your Bishop this question. He has been appointed as judge, holds the appropriate authority and right to receive inspiration, knows the situation better than anyone here, etc, etc, etc. He's the one to ask that.Can you stand blameless? Of course. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.Isaiah 1:18 A rhetorical question for you - If you Bishop didn't think that repentance (ie. full forgiveness) of the sin was possible, why is he having you work through a process of repentance? You expected ‘life changing consequences’? Those should happen within yourself – the change to turn from the sin, change yourself, the remorse when you come to an understanding of the situation and how the Savior paid the price. I don’t believe that Heavenly Father administers punishment to effect change. That would be counter-productive to the plan and interfere with our agency.