ryanh

Not always. Even those born in the church often don't understand what constitutes crossing the line. As a recent convert attending an institute ward, I was shocked at what some of the members thought was OK to be doing with a bf/gf. I suppose a Bishop could simply say "now, you understand that x, y, and z are to be avoided too?" as one line of approach, but I don't automatically see taking a different approach - "do you do x?, do you do y?, do you do z?" as inappropriate. Obviously, it could be, but it isn't automatic IMO simply because the line of questioning went that direction.

Hummm, if I didn't honestly know better, I might get the idea from reading many of the replies that it isn't at all important to do 'good and right' behaviors when seeking to obtain assurance from God. I could almost infer from the posts that what one singularly needs to do is be humble; and not immerse themselves in scriptures, or attend church, or do whatever else they are trying to believe is right. Soul_Searcher, keep doing what you are doing. Sometimes all we can do is go through the motions until we begin to catch what it is we might be missing. KEEP going through the motions while continuing to search. Go back to the BoM and re-read Alma 32 - esp verses 21 through the end. Alma was talking to the people telling them the process of a testimony's beginning and it's growth. Don't forget to check out articles on LDS.org too! Such as Testimony as a Process Your efforts are admirable. I can't possibly imagine that Heavenly Father is not keenly aware of your efforts. I don't understand why some have to struggle to get a testimony, and others simply are given a gift to believe the testimonies of others. But I trust the Heavenly Father knows all this, and has a plan for you and your situation. They only way you won't find out what is in store is if you give up before you get to that position. Don't give up!

Perhaps that is part of why the pearl sought is not yet forthcoming?

What are you really asking? Can't wrap my head around that question they way it is written and amongst all of the other tangential stuff. Are you simply asking whether or not they ever physically existed?

Then it’s completely settled now, isn’t it? This whole discussion is NOT about LDS views about who is, or who is not Christian. It is about your acceptance of who is or who is not Christian being superimposed as a paradigm for interpreting LDS beliefs. The two are incompatible, and it is apparent now why Elder Worthlin’s talk would cause consternation. The parable of the talents in the NT is illustrative of why LDS can feel perfectly comfortable, and without cognitive dissonance, considering as Christians those we believe don’t have the fullness of the gospel. To whom much is given, much is required. To whom has the lesser portion, less is required.

Of course. But, don't we also believe in treating ALL of our Brothers and Sisters, no matter what their persuasion (or even action - turn the other cheek, walk with him twain, etc) with a much compassion as we can muster? Or are we ala carte Christians? There are ways to declare we are Christians, and defend our faith without the fanfare that has occurred. I believe there is an appropriate balance that, for now, is out of balance. It just doesn't feel right. And that is the measure where I felt the need to stand up, defend MY faith and my religion, that we can and ought to do better. Can I have everyone's attention?

And gentle enough to heal those that could not see rather than condemn them. And gentle and loving enough to tell the adulteress to "go, and sin no more" afer he called out her accusers. When we seek to justify ourselves, it usually is clear, we already know we are in the wrong. Just so happens that I happened to read a few words of Pres Hinckley yesterday in relation to anger and Jesus' actions in the temple: Certainly, He held Himself to a higher standard while carrying out the necessary cleansing. I believe that Talmage has quite a bit to say about this episode as well, and I don't recall ever feeling justified in not acting as Christ-like as I could when I read that.

Ironic isn't it? On a thread about the definition of 'who is Christian', the discussion would turn to contention and a spitting contest? Clearly, we all (me included) fall short of being Christ-like. The question in my mind is whether or not we are trying all we can to follow that Example, and become like Him. Hope we call all show each other Christian fruits rather than peddle semantics and derisions. By their fruits ye shall know them . . .

Not being LDS (yet), I suppose it is possible for you to completely miss the sarcasm that sixpacktr is trying to use. No, the bishop or branch president in your area will NOT delve into your own personal choices regarding abstaining from meat - even if you tell him all about it. Scripture speaks of those that proclaim/command others to also not eat meat, but seems to be to be silent regarding those that personally choose to abstain. Seeking to be kind, thoughtful, and less impactful on any of God's creatures is not against any doctrine that I am aware of. (still, in designing our bodies, as evidenced by the hoops we have to jump through in order to meet dietary needs on a vegetarian diet, it does seem God intended us to partake of meat as part of our diet) TIMOTHY CHAPTER 4 D&C SECTION 49 Is it just me, or is the apparent double negative in 18 trip others up too? I've always stumbled across that and had to force it into context to make sense for me. I want a comma in-between "forbiddeth" and "to" in order to read it correctly.

I simply ask my children if they have any questions or concerns about a situation. Find out their feelings and what is on their mind before deciding what is or is not appropriate to start explaining to them. One may be hurting and confused, but the other unphased. Each child likely has differing needs for explanations from you. You won't know until you do some "finding out".

I'm so tired of hearing people throwing around that statement in judgmental ways anytime they hear of a person that has an anger issues. Might as well accuse every person who has problems, or sins in any way, that they will never repent or get better - only worse. Ugh. Counseling and reading can be very helpful. Find out what might be the root causes of his anger. The way he was raised? Overly sensitive to being hurt? Need for control? Mental illness? Discovering the root drivers will go a long way in finding how to solve the problem. You did good making him leave. Even a longer term separation may be helpful in providing enough of a wake up call if he doesn't get his act together on his own now. Don't be too afraid of separation as the death of a marriage. It doesn't have to be the first step to it's death, and in certain circumstances, can be a helpful step in moving forward.

Rachelle, how are you doing today? Getting by alright? Have you had a chance to get with your Branch President yet? What about stake/district president?

Do you have a reference for that? Or are you relying on the liberal intrepretation of President Benson's quote you posted earlier?

That's a good tool for you to rationally consider this situation liv4art. What would you think of a man marring a teen less than half his age? Even if she were mature and highly intelligent? I think we can all see that for what it is. Apply it the other way around, and strip away our natural gender-bias, then see what the reverse situation also really is.

Oh No! Rachelle, I'm so sorry to hear that! I just can't imagine. You deserve so much better than to be treated like this. You have been amazing in your willingness to forgive and move on. As has been said in other posts, you are an amazing person (even if you won't admit it). But, there comes a time when we our strengths can become a weakness too, and from my perspective, you can't let yourself be trampled upon like this any more. You have every right to shout and be very angry about this. Is there anything we can do to help?

I feel the need to comment more specifically on a couple things. You recognize it as a problem apparently, right? So, have you formulated in your mind exactly what the questions are you need to ask yourself, her, and others? Hopefully the posts so far will be helpful in that endeavor. Re: having had conversations regarding kids, house, honeymoons, etc. My dear brother, please realize that doesn't mean much. I've had those conversations with male co-workers! Of course, we weren’t talking about doing it together! But, my point is the topic of the conversation means nothing without the emotions attached to it. This is an emotional matter, not one of what has been discussed. Having discussed those matters only means that the both of you are emotionally engaged enough to discuss them, and come to some agreement, not that it is any sort of sign about the status or condition of the relationship. I am going to be forceful and emphatically emphasize that yes, this is infatuation. There may be more to it, but you cannot possibly help but to be infatuated at this stage of a relationship. I dare say that if a person is not infatuated at this stage of a relationship, there is something wrong with them and they ought to seriously reconsider if they should ever marry! I can understand why you wouldn't think it is infatuation. It's very hard to see and understand until you have passed through it before. It is so incredibly hard to think straight during the infatuation stage. But, for your own sake, you need to work hard to set it aside and consider the situation rationally, and with Heavenly Father's guidance. (hint, hint - time on a mission is a PERFECT way to get that separation from emotions and rationally consider your situation!) How else do I know it is infatuation? Well, as one popular and well known Utah marriage/relationship coach has put it when speaking on the radio - were it not for these chemically induced drives creating temporary insanity that push men and women together, it isn't to likely, given how different women and men are, that we would ever marry or have children!

You might get some pretty tough advice in this thread. I will be tough, because so many that have walked through more of life than you have can see the errors of where you are at, and that advice will come across as contradictory to your desires. You have sought out advice, so I am sincerely hoping that is sign that you are humble enough to honestly take the advice of those of us who have your best interest at heart. Foremost – you will have one and only one chance to serve a mission at your age. The directive that all young men are to serve a mission is not one to be dismissed lightly if one is concerned about ‘living forever’ with a spouse. Not only that, but you will be missing out on far more joy and growth from a mission than you can understand at this point. Do not pass up your one opportunity to obey God, and serve your own well being by foregoing a mission! That’s the way I feel about it. If she is the person that you are to spend the eternities with, she will still be there when you get back. Seattle touched upon one of the aspects that first came to my mind. One of the difficult dynamics of a relationship where age is significantly different is the mother/son or daddy/daughter roles the relationship takes on. You and she cannot help but feel and play out some of these dynamics in such a relationship. You may think that you can avoid it, but IMO,it would be extremely unlikely you can. Does she have children? If not, it is very likely that, knowing she has passed the age of childbearing, is being driven by natural impulses to nurture and care for one that is younger than her. And how was your relationship with your mother? Completely fulfilling? I dare say not or else you likely wouldn’t have even begun to engage in socializing with this woman beyond any required class participation. Understand please, I am not attempting to cast stones at you or your mother. I had a distant mother that was not always there for me or helped me when I needed her. Consequently, all through my teen years, and even beyond, I was far more attracted to older women than to those closer to my own age. I count my blessings that I was able to see that for what it was – a hope and desire to fill the void I felt, and that I didn’t follow that. Where there is such a significant age difference in this lifetime, I suspect it would be difficult to develop the equal partnership necessary to build a celestial marriage. There will always be an inequality by virtue of your different positions in life. Why is she single at her age? Now, take this with a grain of salt as I do understand there are MANY wonderful women in their 40’s that are single for all the various reasons. But, it is a factor to very seriously investigate. (similarly, if she wants a 'forever' relatiohship, she should be very seriously investigating why you would be willing to get married before serving a mission) Some advice I heard recently regarding evaluating a person for marriage potential: If you are putting someone up on a pedestal, stop it, and take them off the pedestal to evaluate them objectively. And if they are putting you up on a pedestal, and are unwilling to take you off that to objectively evaluate you, run. I agree that you may be fine with the age difference now, but I don’t expect that will last for all of this life. The infatuation stage you are in (and yes, even if you don’t think it is infatuation, it is – been there, done that) will wear off. (do some searches on “honeymoon phase of marriage” and how marriage changes over time) It may become far more of a stumbling block to you later in life than you can possibly realize now. There is only One that can help us see if the decisions we are making are right or not. It seems you are trying to only figure this out for yourself without seeking the direction of our Heavenly Father. This is just one more piece of evidence that tells me you really need to go on a mission to learn better how to rely on God more, and less on yourself. Sorry for the harsh words. It’s all in love from someone that considers you a brother. I wish the best for you. P.S. – there is no such thing as soul mates. She isn’t a ‘one and only’, and there will be others when you return from your mission.

Search your feelings deeply. You may find that much of your anger/disappointment towards your father has been transferred to your friend. I'm serious. It is very common for us to subconsciously try to avoid what may feel like irreconcilable pain towards a loved one by transferring it to a more disposable target. Your friend is not the only one to blame. She couldn't have seduced your father without his consent. He is complicit in this, and has done great harm to you, and all of your family. His role in this cannot be so easily dismissed as it appears to be in your post. Does your mother know? How have you been able to so freely forgive your father if he hasn't even had a chance to see the bishop yet or begin a proper repentance process? I understand that the culture in Mexico is a lot more forgiving of this type of sin that the culture I grew up in, however, the directions and admonitions of God are consistent across boarders and cultures. What he did was extremely serious and threatens his eternal status. What should you do? Be patient. This wound in the family is very recent, and something like this can take significant time to mend. It won't help to think that it will be, or should be resolved quickly. Were it me, I would be seriously contemplating seeking the advice of worthy priesthood leaders (not your father at this point in time!). The Lord does not work in darkness. Sin cannot be kept in the dark if it is truly being taken care of. Your father has sinned against you, your mother, this family friend, and his Heavenly Father. All those people (including your mother) need to be involved in resolving this in my opinion.

My only guess would be that the cartenoids are the first to escape the olives under a light press (or escape in greater quantities early in the pressing process) whereas the chlorophyll and other elements that would balance out the final color are a little slower to extract or run. The cartenoids in olives are a yellow-red. Chlorophyll obviously, is green. Or, they were simply pressing olives that were overripe! Hence greater yellow-red pigments and lesser chlorphyll.

Just read the following in the Miracle of Forgiveness this morning:

Glad for the update - I was wondering what was going on after the last news of the move. Hope all goes as planned - both the visit schedule and the no-contact order.

Isn't it interesting how our Father in Heaven answers our prayers and needs? We often hope for something big, a revelation, a miricale, an overpowering feeling, etc. But it is more often through our fellow brothers and sisters that He communicates to us. Thank goodnes that there are those in your life that are in tune enough with the Holy Ghost to hear and follow the promptings of God to reach out to you.

I am SO thankful for modern revelation and prophecy that allows us a true understanding of the nature of God (and the atonement, etc, etc). Without such, it is clear than any point can be argued by using the Bible alone, and we are then simply left to wonder or believe whatever we will. Arguing using personal interpretations from the Bible is useless, and I for one am not interested in engaging in it (besides, I'm not that scholarly anyway ). We are so lucky to have the guidance of the Spirit and of authorized mouthpieces, are we not?

In talking with Lattelady outside of this thread, I finally understand what she wouldn't simply come out and state plainly. That she is intrepreting the quote above from President Benson - the bolded part "was sired" - to mean actual physical intercourse. No wonder there is confusion as to what she is asking, or what contradictions she is speaking of. Then again perhaps I'm just clueless in not having understood "sire" = sex rather than "sire" representing the litteral son of God as is consitently taught.

I really don't grasp why you might be so interested in 'member views' as opposed to what is actual doctrine. I would expect you could go to any denomination of any religion and find a variety of views and personal opinions that surrond what the official doctrine of that religion/denomination is. What's the point of doing that? To measure variability among members? What's doctrine is doctrine, and varying personal viewpoints are worth little.