JayGlad

Frankly, I have a real problem with members of the Church who toss out the question: "If you have to ask, then you shouldn't do it."  
 
While taking the missionary discussions, had I followed such "counsel" (based upon its seriously flawed logic) then I would not have joined the Church.
 
"ASKING" (can I emphasis it more?) is a fundamental principle! The scriptures are replete with the admonition to "ask," "seek," and "knock." When we do these things by the Spirit, then we are promised that we shall "find" the answers (and more).
 
Using the above retort does nothing but expose the laziness the of one posing it to the questioner.

Having gone back and read your edited reply, allow me one last response. Then I'm finished with this thread.
 
Marc, I wish I were there with you so you could see and hear me, because I am being as sincere and gentle as I know how. I don't expect an immediate reply--I don't expect a reply at all, really. Just offering food for serious thought.
 
Please, consider the following: If you truly believe that Jesus Christ, His atonement and the Holy Ghost are incapable or unable to bless us, to change our hearts to the point that we can judge as He does, what does that imply?
 
Anyone who believes within his heart of hearts that we cannot judge righteously (or develop any other divine attribute), then he will not try. If he never tries, he will never gain the ability to do so (or develop that divine attribute, whatever it is). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ultimately, it an indication of a lack of faith, and faith we must have and exercise if we are to become like Him. It is possible!
 
If I may, I'd make one last suggestion. Stop focusing on the fallen nature (fool, imperfect, sinner) and focus on being a son of God, one who is of royal birth, one who is one of God's convent people. Focus on the eternal nature--see and recognize your potential as a God. It is life changing!
 
We must believe (have the faith) that He can change us just as He says He can. We must not only believe in Christ, we must believe what He says as it pertains to us individually. When we do, then, wonderful and miraculous things begin to happen in our lives and to our character, through our Savior's atonement, not through anything we do ourselves.

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Living in a fallen state neither reconciles nor justifies sinful behavior. If it did, there would be no need for a Savior and the Atonement.
 
Regarding the adulterous woman. The Lord did judge her, but He didn't condemn her--big difference! President Kimball asked, "But did the Lord forgive the woman? Could he forgive her [in her current condition]?" Then he says, "There seems to be no evidence of forgiveness. His command to her was, 'Go, and sin no more.' He was directing the sinful woman to go her way, abandon her evil life, commit no more sin, transform her life. He was saying, Go, woman, and start your repentance; and he was indicating to her the beginning step-to abandon her transgressions." Amulek taught that we cannot be saved in our sins. Think about the depth, breadth and implications of that doctrinal truth.
 
We are members of the House of Israel. We are the covenant people. We are God's elect, as Paul refers to us. Do we as a people fully understand what that means?
 
"A chosen people are called upon to make choices that evidence their covenant with Christ and their loyalty to the fathers. A chosen people are called upon to be true to their covenants. Israel is called to live the gospel.... Israel is called be the light to a world that travels largely in darkness." This cannot be accomplished with one foot in the covenant and the other foot in the world.
 
Plainly put, righteousness requires obedience. If we do not understand the gospel, or worse, if we choose to understand only cherry-picked parts, then it is vital that we come to an understanding before it becomes "everlasting too late."

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Having gone back and read your edited reply, allow me one last response. Then I'm finished with this thread.
 
Marc, I wish I were there with you so you could see and hear me, because I am being as sincere and gentle as I know how. I don't expect an immediate reply--I don't expect a reply at all, really. Just offering food for serious thought.
 
Please, consider the following: If you truly believe that Jesus Christ, His atonement and the Holy Ghost are incapable or unable to bless us, to change our hearts to the point that we can judge as He does, what does that imply?
 
Anyone who believes within his heart of hearts that we cannot judge righteously (or develop any other divine attribute), then he will not try. If he never tries, he will never gain the ability to do so (or develop that divine attribute, whatever it is). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ultimately, it an indication of a lack of faith, and faith we must have and exercise if we are to become like Him. It is possible!
 
If I may, I'd make one last suggestion. Stop focusing on the fallen nature (fool, imperfect, sinner) and focus on being a son of God, one who is of royal birth, one who is one of God's convent people. Focus on the eternal nature--see and recognize your potential as a God. It is life changing!
 
We must believe (have the faith) that He can change us just as He says He can. We must not only believe in Christ, we must believe what He says as it pertains to us individually. When we do, then, wonderful and miraculous things begin to happen in our lives and to our character, through our Savior's atonement, not through anything we do ourselves.

And I believe that it's the "opinion" and "speculation" amongst the members that causes so much contention (another thread here) and leads weaker members away from the truth.
 
The restored gospel of Jesus Christ is not a gospel of speculation; His Church is not a church of opinion; His doctrines are not doctrines of conjecture. Yet far too many of us have allowed speculation, opinion, and conjecture to become part of our personal beliefs and in some cases, even our teachings. Anything less than the truth is false. Anything less than light is darkness.
 
On more than one occasion, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, of the Quorum of the Twelve, taught: “There is no salvation in believing a false doctrine.” Elder McConkie went on and listed several axioms (an axiom is a statement or proposition that is regarded as being factual or true). Three of the axioms he gave were:
 
“Truth, diamond truth, truth unmixed with error, truth alone leads to salvation.
 
“Gospel doctrines belong to the Lord, not to men. They are his. He ordained them, he reveals them, and he expects us to believe them.
 
“We are called upon to reject all heresies and cleave unto all truth. Only then can we progress according to the divine plan” (The Seven Deadly Heresies, an address given at Brigham Young University, June 1, 1980).
 
There is so much truth to be learned (and applied), I cannot understand why we speed so much of our limited time discussing opinions and speculations, neither of which will lead us to our exaltation.

Having gone back and read your edited reply, allow me one last response. Then I'm finished with this thread.
 
Marc, I wish I were there with you so you could see and hear me, because I am being as sincere and gentle as I know how. I don't expect an immediate reply--I don't expect a reply at all, really. Just offering food for serious thought.
 
Please, consider the following: If you truly believe that Jesus Christ, His atonement and the Holy Ghost are incapable or unable to bless us, to change our hearts to the point that we can judge as He does, what does that imply?
 
Anyone who believes within his heart of hearts that we cannot judge righteously (or develop any other divine attribute), then he will not try. If he never tries, he will never gain the ability to do so (or develop that divine attribute, whatever it is). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ultimately, it an indication of a lack of faith, and faith we must have and exercise if we are to become like Him. It is possible!
 
If I may, I'd make one last suggestion. Stop focusing on the fallen nature (fool, imperfect, sinner) and focus on being a son of God, one who is of royal birth, one who is one of God's convent people. Focus on the eternal nature--see and recognize your potential as a God. It is life changing!
 
We must believe (have the faith) that He can change us just as He says He can. We must not only believe in Christ, we must believe what He says as it pertains to us individually. When we do, then, wonderful and miraculous things begin to happen in our lives and to our character, through our Savior's atonement, not through anything we do ourselves.

OK, I see. This is one of weaknesses of forums. Comments can pass one another. You did not put words in my mouth.
 
Please, do accept my sincere apology. It has been chalked up to a miscommunication.
 
Thank you!

I would submit the following:
 
If my and my children's perception of my love for them is based on my willingness to acquiesce to their unrighteous desires, and to participate in them in any way, shape or form (such as a celebration), then I would say that neither of us understands what Christ-like love truly is.

I generally find that the most judgmental people I interact with are those who judge others for judging -- speaking of ironic.

http://www.sixteensmallstones.org/go-and-sin-no-more-misinterpreting-jesus-and-the-woman-taken-in-adultery/

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Not that we need to know (we don't!), but it depends upon what the "truth" was. There are occasions where telling the truth, because of the nature of the sin, requires excommunication. For example, murder, the deliberate and unjustified taking of human life, is one example that comes to mind.

The older I get, the more weight I lift getting out of bed every morning. I wonder if eating meat might help?

Now you're just taking cheap shots.
 
The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are scripture as much as the Bible is; and they do much to bridge the gap between the supposedly conflicting facets of God's nature as presented in the Old and New Testaments.  Those books show that throughout the whole history of the earth God has been capable of showing great love and forgiveness, whilst also being at times extremely--even painfully--demanding.
 
Jehovah did not suddenly find His softer side with the birth of Jesus of Nazareth; and He did not convert to Nicolaitanism just because he dined with tax collectors and refused to kill a harlot.
 
 
If you think God won't bring fire and brimstone--TFP wasn't saying He would; he was just saying he didn't think Jesus would participate in a celebration of the same sort of acts that used to elicit such a drastic negative reaction from Him.
 
If you think God won't, at some future point, impose a judgment against the couple with potentially eternal ramifications if they fail to repent--you are wrong.  Stupendously, colossally wrong.

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

Been following this thread for a while. Not sure what to say until now.
 
Being converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as an adult, perhaps I see things differently than others. I have to ask, in all sincerity, how can anyone who claims to have a testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ (and all that implies) stand up and proudly say he supports gay marriage (and all that implies)? The two declarations are diametrically opposed. In all honestly, it's beyond my ability to comprehend.

But if someone has actually sought an answer from our Heavenly Father, why are they asking strangers on the Internet?
I suspect that a lot of the time people post these kinds of questions is because they are seeking validation of a decision they have already made. As though some stranger on the Internet giving their approval automatically makes it okay...whatever "it" is. Because you are guaranteed - no matter what the question or the church's teaching - you are going to find someone that says it is okay.
If the decision has been made, why not turn to the Lord for confirmation instead of the Internet?
I think that being in the wedding party of a gay wedding is a whole other level of support as opposed to being a guest. And that is all I am going to say about that as I don't really care to engage in the condemnation from members of the church who would call me bigoted or un-Christlike. It's getting to be more and more that members of the church are no different from the rest of the world in being intolerant of those who have a more conservative or different viewpoint than theirs....even when those viewpoints are in line with the Gospel, with church teachings, or the guidance of our prophets and leaders.

I do think that witnessing is an important part of the ceremony, and I am glad the temples are designed to hold fairly large parties to witness a sealing. Marriage in western society has always been a public announcement; indeed, that is pretty much the definition of what "marriage" is. So I don't think the public witness a trivial or unimportant detail. My discomfort comes when we presume to instruct the Lord or his servants on what is best for the kingdom and its members.

I would see it as another blessing and an honor to be able to help provide that amazing technology available in the latter days to spread the Gospel. Eternal perspective my friend....

We are facing the same probable situation. Here is my philosophy:
 
Thirty-three years ago, I gave every penny I had or ever would have to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as all my time, all my talents, and every blessing I had received or ever would receive from God. I became an owner of nothing, only a steward. So if God's kingdom asks me to "pay" something to them, then I already made that decision decades ago. There is no donation involved, only realization of what is mine and what is not.