Gramajane

I wish I knew how to make my profile picture be heads up- : /

I think Grandpa may have meant the last thing he said to me, to come out in a sarcastic way, but it didn't, from the sound of it, it sounded like he KNEW I was trying to take care of him. :) I'm so thankful for that-- it still feels like a gift from God. Both my sweetheart and I dreamed about him after he died, that he was happy and that he was working to resolve his issues. He was with my mother in law :)

With my father in law, not feeling that I was good enough for his only child,-- I came to realize that there was really no one he would feel was good enough, that it wasn't anything I could do, as I hadn't done anything wrong. He just had such trust issues, and really trusted no one but his wife and his son and he was jealous of my closeness to his son! I tried to win his heart, but that just made him more suspicious- and I thought it would just take time for him to get to know me, but that didn't work either. He actually gave me a compliment once, (not to my face) that " at least Jane does not bear grudges" and this from one who had worked for years and years behind my back trying to get my husband to divorce me, though we had five kids! When he was in his 90s and my mother in law died, he was devastated, and I hoped he would be more open, but not so. We welcomed him to live with us, but still there he worked to get rid of me. I couldn't even say good morning, without his taking it wrong, and when I then tried to just wave he twisted that to mean I was trying to get rid of him. So sad. I'm greatly thankful to God, that the last thing he said to me, indicated that finally he accepted that I was trying to help him, to care for him, as he said "thank you, mother" When I asked if he had had enough water to drink, (as he was having delusions again) --- I had called my husband to come from work because of Grandpas condition, and so my sweetheart went to the cabin we had gotten for Grandpa, and placed about 10 feet from our kitchen door. We thought that Grandpa was going to be ok, and they talked a while, and reaffirmed their plans to go to the Senior Center for the once a week lunch that they usually went to (I didn't go with them to these, as I wanted Grandpa to have the time with my husband- and Grandpa couldn't be comfortable with me anywhere, any time etc) So, when my husband came home at lunch time, and went to get Grandpa, then my sweetheart came staggering back in the house- crying- Grandpa had committed suicide! He had shot himself in the head! He was dead! I was so VERY V E R Y thankful that I had nothing to regret! And also for Grandpas last words to me. Things had been some better since my mother in laws sister, had told me that when Grandpa had again begun to bad mouth me to her, she had told him to stop right there. She then asked him how his grand kids were. He assured her that they were all great and good kids (all were actually married at that time) and then she reminded him that I couldn't be all that bad as I had practically raised them alone as my sweetheart was gone working from us so much of the time. --- She said he sat there, with his mouth open, and a shocked look on his face. Things were slightly better after that. :) --- Anyway, I plead with you to work to understand where your inlaws are coming from, and forgive them, while it still may be best to put some distance between you and not accept favors with strings attached? (Grandpa had had his father die when he was 3 years old, his mother remarried a man who was abusive to him, and then his mother died when he was 11, and he was sent to relatives during the depression who didn't really want him, and also beat him, and treated him terribly, till he ran away at age 14. (this is his side of the story, I never got to hear theirs) Grandpa was an angry acting out kid I understand- and once admitted to us he even attempted but aborted an effort to poison his aunt!) When he began seeing things that were not there, I became fearful, and felt unsafe around him. I knew he had a gun, and I told my husband I was fearful, and felt I might have to move out myself if Grandpa had access to the gun. I got my husband to remove it from his car (without telling Grandpa) he dreplaced the gun with a hammer in the container. Grandpa found out somehow, and asked if Ray knew where it was, and accused him of stealing it, and asked for it back. I didn't know that my husband had given it back to him, and it really ripped my sweetheart up, that he had used that to kill himself, but Grandpa had always said he would kill himself if he ever got to where he couldn't take care of himself. We had worked for years to convince him that was not courageous to do that, but cowardly, when even Helen Keller couldn't see or hear and went on to do great things, inspiriting people etc, also many without legs etc etc. Grandpa claimed he didn't believe in God, but he was sure angry with "nobody" then. I was thankful that I was able to reason with my sweetheart that Grandpa would have just gone and bought another gun anyway or tried another method that would have maybe had a lot of pain and caused other terrible consequences. Grandpa was still driving (scaring us to death, but the police said we couldn't take his car or keys etc) Sorry, I'm just rambling on and on. I do totally believe that Grandpa is at peace now, that he can see into my heart, and also that probably most of the other people in his life were not out to get him either. He was an amazingly good man in many ways. He was a great grandpa to our kids. :) "There is enough good in the worst of us and enough bad in the best of us that it hardly behooves any of us to complain about the rest of us" (or something like that is how the poem goes :) Gramajane

Praying for you! It might help to look at "Love and Logic" parenting- as the principles work with co workers, and even parents in law too. I've had problems with in laws, (my husband was an only child) and it is not fun! It took a lot of prayer, patience, working to understand them, and thankfully we were not beholden to them for anything. I think if you can not have them so much in your face that would help, and help them get rentors who can pay the full bill, to help their finances, even if you need to get a smaller, not so nice place, the peace would be worth it.

I am rarely here, but it is a great place to be when I do get a chance. :) Welcome to all (who play fair

I rather doubt that, but then again, as I know we don't preach hate of Gays , maybe they might tend to go where they feel safe? who supplied the rating?

One thing I understand that guys like is to feel like the boss and the chase is 1/2 the fun, and even for girls if something is shoved on us all the time, we begin to reject it, right? Maybe what would help is for you to back off a bit, or even a LOT? You don't want to get him in the habit of rejecting you. You can even tell him what you are doing, to let him have his space. See if you can spend some time to improve your appeal. Paint your toe nails, take an exercise class, etc, and maybe even get a little lap dog, that you can pet and pamper for some of your need to caress. Find other ways to get your self worth raised, so you won't be hurt. I think if you keep giving him some of his other love language needs, that before several months have gone by he may start moving in to give you hugs again, but do not attempt to then swallow him whole immediately-- let him feel the space and if he stops moving toward you and retreats, do so too. :) God bless you both!

Sigh I sure wish I knew how to get my picture right side up! Hey, at least I managed to get on on here :) and maybe it is ironic that it is leaning to the right?

I believe that the "forgive and forget" is more about forgiving them for what they have done, and forgetting that defensive anger it probably caused, and work to see them as a child of God, maybe like a child that keeps hitting or bites-- that they need to be kept away from the other children until they have shown that they have changed. --- If we were to entirely forget the whole event, then how would we learn? We should "let it go and Let God" but we still must protect ourselves from being abused again. It can take years to do this, but you just keep praying for help to do it, and trying to see her as God sees her. Do not talk against her etc. even in your heart. You can do this -- but let it be in Gods time as you keep working on it? hugs!

2 Corinthians 11:3 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Yes, sure seems that many teachings lost that *simplicity*.

Traveler-- I think that the word "demand they give" is maybe the problem here. As then it is not "giving" it is "being taken FROM"-- and that is not freedom but the opposite? that is Satans plan? What blessing does one deserve who has not *given* a gift, or offering? I understand that people are WAY more willing to GIVE, than to have their free agency taken from them. Yes, there are many who use others, and effectively steal from them in wages, etc. Let the law and God deal with them. I think that to hold people accountable for their own sustenance is a good thing, and promotes them to work. I believe it is the parents job to teach the children this responsibility in the home and that giving a child "allowance" is not teaching correct principles. Though paying them for work BEYOND their minimum, of "those who walk on the floors help with the chores" is a good idea. --- Let them work to earn their name brand clothing or fancy toys if they choose. I read an article once about a teacher who proposed to his political science class that they use the "welfare" sty stem in grading. Those who got higher scores on their tests, would give some of their points to those who did poorly etc. Not surprisingly, those who worked hard for their grades protested greatly, while those who got the poor grades praised the plan. See any parallels?

Interesting, I was just in Seattle where twice I saw men walking along beside the cars waiting at a stop light, each had an empty paper cup in their hands and seemed to be doing a poor me look on their faces, which I took to mean they wanted the cars to put money in the cup. Since I have learned about professional beggars, and that some just use the money for drugs or alcohol etc. I have not felt right to give them money. Still I have struggled to know how to tell? It seems that they would go to churches, or Welfare if they were really in trouble, I mean AFTER they went to friends and family? -- So then I thought, how about I buy some McDonald's gift certificates, good for a meal? --- then I watched the video "super size me" -- though I think it was extreme- it still makes me wonder. I mean, I shouldn't give something that I wouldn't eat, right? But what can be preserved with out preservatives? Maybe some zip lock bags of nuts and raisins? - Which is what I concluded, but I'm sure open to more ideas!

Yes, one of my (there are SO many-- I can't choose JUST one :) favorites is that we are in a FAMILY relationship with our God. Jesus said to Mary, after he was resurrected, I go to my father and your father, my God and your God. :) --- Yes, sometimes I have wanted to cry on the shoulder of my Father in Heaven and have him hold me close and tell me I CAN get through the hard times. My own father had a hard time to every compliment anyone, or say loving words but I knew he loved us, as he worked for us and with us. Once after I was married, he signed a letter "love Dad" and in reading it I burst into tears, and when my husband asked what was wrong. I could only point at the sweet words! Finally I was able to tell my sweetheart what they meant to me. I work hard to often tell my family that I love them so!

When we grow up and become parents on the earth, we do not "de throne" our own parents, but work to follow in their good footsteps. My parents will always be my parents. :) --- It is sad how our teachings are so often distorted and taken out of context by those who wish to destroy Gods work. I also find it interesting that so MANY of the Anti seem to have nothing they claim is better to take its place, and if the DO think so, how about they praise what they have that they like and let the "consumer" decide for themselves? ;0

I do not think it should make a difference whether a person has been to the temple or not, for how modest they are. I think we can dress our children modestly from infancy. I am sad to see a bikini on a baby (boy or girl). I think that there are amazing swim suits that make us look attractive and stay in place better than bikinis. As a child I wish my mother had not bought us sleeveless clothing, but had helped set the standards higher. -- A funny thought-- Why do we wrap birthday and other presents in gift wrap, so not one peek is available? Isn't it so that at the RIGHT time, it is a wonderful GIFT/Surprise? Maybe PART of the gift is that it is NEW? Though I love consignment and thrift stores -- that IS a different idea. Still, thank Heavens for repentance! YES!

Rameumptum- much of what you say seems to be using a love and logic style. (the --if they don't get the AGREED ON work done, we are SO SORRY,(ABSOLUTELY NO SARCASM!!!!) they miss out on going to ____ and they need to pay the babysitter etc. But you do NOT tell them ahead of time what the consequences will be! As each consequence needs to fit the situation and child etc. If they know ahead, they can talk themselves into that they can handle it too!

God sends us our children to help us ALL grow. We need to provide for them, adequate shelter, food, clothing, medical care and education. All else is extra (stylish clothing, movies, sweets etc) and they can help work to gain those things. We are not to be drill Sargent making them choose what we want nor Rescue Squads making us come rescue them from their unfortunate consequences. (If they didn't put their favorite shirt in the laundry and want to wear it-- we let THEM do an extra batch of laundry, or hand wash it, etc. --- How we work with our family is a practice for becoming like our Father in Heaven, and we need to work as it says in the Doc and Cov. -- with love unfeigned, etc!

" the best way to 'get rid of an enemy' is to turn them into a friend".

Jumping right from your first paragraph-- I recommend that you need a BASIC relationship adjustment. As it seems you are in practically adversarial instead of " counselor" mode. -- no wonder nothing is working That if you would look into "Love and Logic" Parenting online- there is the SUPER principles taught with stories of how it works. I will try to give you just a sample that might be used in your case. We with true empathy, express sorrow that we have not been having joy together. We express that we hope to work together to accomplish that. We would like their help to figure out what to do. --We express that we know we can't make them (and Heavenly Father doesn't make us either ) do what they really don't want to do, but there are some rules we need to follow or the kids can be put in foster care. (not getting them an education, drugs, etc etc) THENNNN-----We ask THEM what their goals are. We let THEM talk till they are done, and we ask them IF they are done. then We express it back to them in our words what they want to do. Then we ask if they think they know what OUR (as parents) goals are, see if they can TELL us, so we know they know and we don't have to or want to lecture to them. Then we ask them questions for if it is possible or how to reach both our goals etc.

Sorry- I didn't mean to start a new thread (I don't even know how to do that ?)--- and I didn't want to "debate" about Prison Chaplins not getting why coffee and tea were on list, but just had that side thought for him? (I get so little time on here, that I need to learn how to send messages that aren't on the wall or something--) and now I need to go home to eat some lunch too. hope to be back soon, maybe this evening I'll get some online time :)

we had 20 foster kids over the years, but not all at the same time! most we had at one time was five foster kids)

We raised our 5 (two boys then two girls then a boy) then did foster care for 10 years, then I became a sub school teacher and I STILL love working with kids :) "Love and Logic Parenting" (check on line) has correct principles and GREAT results, and is how I want to be treated! Also how I believe God works with us ! FUN-- WAY less stress!! Empathy and choices it is! Our one foster daughter we had for almost the whole 10 years, took the class with us, and loved it, and we worked it out that she would remind ME, to do it right! :) Some schools use it and it works in the workplace too with ADULTS!! They teach it with stories (parables?) and that helps it stick in the mind, but it is hard not to revert back to the OLD less effective ways our parents used. -- Try it! I think you will like it too- and often our kids use it with THEIR kids and love it also! :) -----( we didn't discover it till most of ours were out of the nest, but I shared with those interested, and it had many aspects we used that were right on already! (mutual respect etc)

I think that you would be under the High Priests as a single? Maybe you can ask that group leader IF you are assigned, and if so to whom? Then you might make it a point to talk to them (alone or together) about how you are so looking forward to home teacher visits, especially as a new member? --- Yes, this is the Lords Church, and the organization is HIS though unfortunately he only has us very imperfect people to work for him, and we all have lives full of challenges. This is also a great test of your patience and forgiveness, testimony etc! May we all do well!

I think most of the "questions" you had have been adequately answered, so here are a couple of side notes. This one to the last "question" about a prophet " having sex with a young girl and his wife" (which I think is a totally bogus and leading question, and out of context or proof etc!!!) --- Still it came into my mind that I believe King David had many wives, and didn't they even encourage him to take a much younger wife as he was growing old? Does it seem to bother other Christians that the very Christian religion has in Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, plural marriage?? It seems not? The Bible even says that God himself said HE gave the **wives** of Saul to David, and was one of the reasons why David had no reason to go after a married woman, Bathsheba? --- another side note-- about the "red head"-- I understand that in some ancient documents it has been found that Jesus hair color was quite unusual, with more of a auburn color- hazelnut I think it was described as? Maybe those were natural highlights? Still, I understand that there is a whole group who believed that Jesus had two wives, Mary and Martha, and that they were taken out of the country by Joseph of Armithea (sp), to Scotland (with the stone/pillar that was used for coronation of kings, and is where red heads came from. --- of course this is NOT LDS doctrine- but interesting to some, especially redheads ;0

There can be many stressors, but you seem to have a good pattern for handling them. :) Yes, they say we can prove how much patience we have by being around OTHER peoples kids, but it is funny how our own can show us our "natural" tendencies too. I also agree with finances, and another is health/eating issues, driving, extended family- and of course the worst are also sins. Which is why, obeying the commandments can really help us have more peace. I've been married to my sweetheart for 40+ years, and it life is just getting better! :) Of course the VERY issues that one has in marriage are often the unresolved ones we brought from our upbringing and it gives us a chance to finally resolve them. -- Life is a test, and marriage can be the final AND the prize! :)