Suzie

Steve, I don't know, what I don't get is...KNOWING how Muslims feel about this issue, with paintings, cartoons, etc of Muhammad why in the world would you say "Hey here a picture of Muhammad"? . Sounds almost like you was teasing them to me even if you wasn't. Again, I am interested in knowing the conversation PRIOR to this incident.

Wow, 5 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours of sleep? Lucky!

Ohhh, I do think it's important to know what you was chatting about to understand their reaction.

"I love the Constitution and government of this land, but I hate the damned rascals that administer the government”

Well, he ordained him secretly. I can imagine the modern day Church in a similar situation.

Ahhh Hugh Nibley. He was the Simon Cowell in Church, he had no problem to say it like it is.

One of the best movie I've ever seen was rated "R": Schindler's List. A masterpiece. No regrets for me on this one.

The problem is that when you contact higher authorities, your letter goes right back to your local leaders.

Well, there are special missions for people with disabilities, they usually serve in their own area, for shorter periods of time up to 2 years or more, they wear name tags and all and they are also released honorably when they complete it just like a regular mission. There is a chance for everyone to serve. :)

One can only speculate on this issue. The timing seems to be too coincidental for some people. He spent a little time in jail but so did Pres. Cannon for the same issue (contempt). Other than that, what other information you have that doesn't look like a temple recommend holder?

Also, yes there were some issues with him as well concerning the Spanish-American War which the Church fully supported. He strongly disagreed. The Church pressured him to stop because he was very vocal about it, he eventually did.

Around 1900, the church changed the process of entry to the Quorum. It was changed to seniority in the Twelve instead of date of ordination. That's why Joseph F. Smith became the senior apostle and then Church president a year later.

Or maybe the 12 year old have special needs that makes him socially awkward. Personally I don't think we live in times where I feel comfortable with a bunch of kids coming to my home, particularly with no parents along because if something bad end up happening to one of these kids, who do you think they would come after?

Elgama, on the other side, if nothing is done (report to the police) she is now free to go and hurt other children.

Vindictive? Wow. I can imagine how frustrated you must be feeling. I am also a very protective mom and I cannot imagine anyone hurting my little ones. I hope things work out and this lady can also get some help because she obviously needs it.

So all that time the early members were not following the laws of the land? Utah was threaten by the law, clearly. The leaders of the Church in Brazil and other countries didn't know what exactly do with those members who were of mixed race with regards to the Priesthood. The pressure was high, very high. It was President Kimball who approached the Lord in several, several occasions over the issue. I agree. My point was about the change of words over the issue. Well, we believe in being honest and sustaining the Law yes? The Church position on illegal immigrants is that they are not an immigration agency therefore they shouldn't get involved. We have illegal immigrants at the present time serving full time missions, we cater for those who have illegal status by allowing them to serve only in the US, we have illegal immigrants who are Bishops and Stake Presidents who also interview other members for Temple recommends and ask that question in the interview that states whether or not you have been honest with your dealings with your fellowmen. It is clear in my opinion that the article of Faith dealing with sustaining the law is forgotten on this case. The number of Hispanic illegal immigrants is HUGE, and they have contacted already the First Presidency over this issue. The Church could lose thousands and thousands of its members if they decide to say it is wrong what they are doing and stop the whole support. Again, in my view (entirely my opinion) is an issue of social pressure.

I wish I was living near you! I helped a good friend of mine lose 100lbs. It wasn't easy at all, she also had a traumatic childhood, she struggles still but feels so much better. I hope you find another good psychologist and overall, keep in mind the Lord is there for you...ALWAYS. Hang it there, I am rooting for you! :)

Well, I didn't say only. I said a few issues. :)

In my opinion there are some issues that in my view seems to be out of social pressure: 1. Plural Marriage 2. Blacks and the Priesthood 3. Approach to Homosexuality (from an "abomination" to our present stance) 4. Illegals in the country

Hi Dove. Sorry to hear about your struggles. Did you ever try therapy with a good psychologist? They can be great at helping you out dealing with traumatic events such as yours.

Back in the 70's or earlier homosexuality was seen as repulsive, now days it's almost fully acceptable and damned if you do not accept it. We see performers of the same gender on stage kissing each other on the lips and people think it is so "cool", even People's magazine sometime ago had a poll of who was the best "kisser" between two female singers. Times definetely changed. In my opinion, the only reason the church changed its view to a much more "soft" or acceptable" approach to homosexuality is social pressure, nothing else.

Elgama, I am just curious as to what your Branch President/Stake President say about your allegations? Is it that they don't think you're saying the truth or is it that they think that what this woman did isn't "serious" enough to release her? Basically what do they say?

Wow. Just wow. Of course, you don't happen to be in this group of those who "lack using the Spirit of discernment" right? No, of course not!. Sorry, I am the one who needs a lesson in humility. That's so true, that's why I think it is so important to think very well in being compatible with the person you would marry, often times things are discovered after marriage and things can turn very sour very quickly as many examples were given in this thread.

True.

Would you mind sharing a link or the name of the talk? I would love to read it. Thanks. :)