jayanna

IF you read past Elder Maxwell's explanation and read the Prophet Joseph Smith's and Elder Talmage's, you can tell they each had a clear understanding that God has a sure knowledge, and has not placed our eternal developement on a gamble. The entire section is excellent. This is the current Pearl of Great Price manual, so yes, the Church teaches it. I will start another thread on another part of that particular section of the manual that I find very illuminating.

Sorry, but I went to the Church of Christ, the Baptist church, and the Methodist church, and a non-denominational church, and in all I was taught that Jesus and God were actually the same being. I asked why would he talk to himself, and I always got the same ' His ways are mysterious and beyond us' answer. Only very recently have I heard of a local congregation that teaches that Jesus and God are not the same person. It is very contraversial in our area.

HI, Spastic, I have been reading this read and thought a couple of interesting things I would like to point out 1) It is completely illogical for you to love someone. That her expectations and emotional needs should have such and effect on you as to cause you to change your own identity is illogical, unreasonable, and therefore must not based on intellect. 2) If #1 is true then you must be making the decision to consider religion based solely on emotion, which is new to you, or it could mean that your brain is no longer functioning normally. 3) IF #1 is false, then you are leading this woman on a wild goose chase, which is an anti-social behavior in a social species. 4) It is my opinion that if you choose to marry this woman without overcoming this issue, there is a great risk you will eventually lose respect for her intellectually, as well as any children you have with her due to the premise that decisions based on intuition, emotion, or stirrings other than the scientific method of determining beliefs to be unreasonable and close-minded. Your fear and anxiety are causing you to overlook key elements in your study of our faith. For example, the very page that you linked earlier Church History In The Fulness Of Times Student Manual Chapter Thirty-Seven: Moving Forward into the New Century concludes with this at the end of the section discussing evolution: "In reaching the conclusion that evolution would be best left out of discussions in our Church schools we are deciding a question of propriety and are not undertaking to say how much of evolution is true, or how much is false. The Church itself has no philosophy about the modus operandi employed by the Lord in His creation of the world." My experience in the church suggests this is true, despite your recent discussions with members in your area. For another example, you have been given a list previously in this thread of the questions you will be answering to determine your preparedness in regard to baptism and becoming an actual member of the church. None of those questions cover the topic of evolution. It is obviously not a requirement to disavow your previous beliefs concerning the matter, your current vaccillating on this issue I believe is born of anxiety rather than calm reasoning. Evolution is not an issue in your possible membership. In fact, the principle of exultation itself suggests that we have not only the capacity, but the expectation to evolve in every way into a being of much higher intelligence and physical perfection. To further your studies I would suggest seeking out a personal revelation. It is a difficult thing for some to accept intelligence granted to us unexpectedly from an outside source. It is a humbling idea, especially when considering the loss of respect you have for those in your family that have disappointed you in their lack of abstract thinking. I appreciate that you are taking this responsibility to your possible future wife and children so seriously. However, I would suggest that you stop waiting for the deal-breaker, only to move past it due to love that you feel for her. There will be days that you are not so fond of her, will that cause you to rethink your conversion? Your faith cannot be based on rational alone, it must be something more. Starting out with a desire to believe is a good start, but eventually it must be much more and exclusive of feelings for another individual. I suggest you read the Book of Mormon, a little every day. Continue to pray humbly. Seek out a personal relationship with your Heavenly Father, for the instruction you can recieve from Him is far superior to that conjecture you can get on your own, and via an internet site. Best Wishes

My Stake Pres. was discussing this very thing with my husband and I. He had been instructed about it by Gen. Auth. He said that no, someone does not have to ask, what if they are incapacitated, in a coma or unable to indicate that they wish for a blessing...do you wait hoping they will later recover enough to request one? Of course you don't. A Blessing Fulfilled - Ensign Mar. 1988 - ensign Intensive Care - Ensign Sept. 1990 - ensign here are a couple of Ensign articles about it. I do think, though, that any blessing of this nature will also accompany an exhibition of faith on someone's part, such as the woman who reached out to touch Jesus' clothing to be healed, the blind man who washed with water as he was asked. Often this exhibition of faith is done by asking for the healing, or at least a 'help thou my unbelief' but is sometimes done afterward, such as when Jesus healed the ten lepers, they did as they were told and they were healed, though only one acknowledged gratitude. I have another link that tells about giving blessings, it lists the necessary parts of a blessing, and a request is not mentioned... the link is very interesting and I think you will find it helpful Healing the Sick - general-conference

This is such an interesting thread! I have learned a lot about the beliefs of others, well, at least I didn't know that Jehovah's Witness didn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I didn't see that coming at all, but when I prayed about it once (after they gave me some pamphlets and I read them and they seemed very reasonable to me) I got the answer that their beliefs of the Savior were not complete. I put the pamphlets in the trash. But I didn't know they don't think he's the Son of God at all... I was wondering if your friend understands that HF has a body that eats and sees and smells? Like in a Marvelous Work and a Wonder... Deuteronomy 4:28 Moses warns the people that someday they will be scattered and will worship false gods that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. How can He do those things without eyes to see, ears to hear, a mouth and stomach to eat, and a nose to smell? Not all mainstream Christians believe that Jesus and His Father are the same person, but I wonder, why not ask Him? What would happen if they asked Him? Are they praying without expecting an answer? I have always wondered this... if you want to know something about God, or His gospel, why not just ask Him?

I was just thinking about an older sister in our ward. Her children are all grown and she has grandchildren, her husband is a Patriarch, and to my knowledge she has no calling. She has a mother who is now wheelchair bound. This mother's mind is not wholly there anymore, she has Alzheimer's I think. Anyway, there they are sitting together (Patriarch is also the organ player) dressed and smiling as always every Sunday. The daughter painstakinlgy prepares her mother for Sacrament every Sunday, even though she is getting older herself. She does it every Sunday as if her mother were completely aware of everything around her. Here is the thing, I know they are doing it not just to be obedient, they are doing it because they love the Lord Jesus Christ. They want to show the Lord that they love Him in return, and this is one way they can do that. I love seeing them there every Sunday, I love the quiet calm dignity that they exude. I love the dedication the daughter shows both to the Lord and to her mother, who I am sure is very well pleased with her daughter. As for you and your mother, I don't know what is best for you, and would not presume to decide for you. I would however like to suggest (as one who has never had her mother at and LDS church with her) that perhaps sitting quietly at church together might be one of the best things to remember later. Sadly, with all the little children that sit around me I rarely get to hear a whole talk myself, but I do get the filling of the cup feeling that I need to help me get through the rest of the week. I think you and your mother should do what pleases the Lord. Follow your conscience, and do your best. Oh, and I'm sure that if there were some accomodation that could be made for her and others with her particular challenge, it would be done regardless of the cost to the ward... I have seen mother's rooms piped with sound, and Spanish and sign language translations, and our ward has hearing assistance for many members as well. Some meetings don't even start until the members needs are met.

You didn't testify of anything. What you wrote was not a testimony. The fact that Pres. Monson and Elder Talmage and a plethora of temple dedications disagree with you, indicate to me that you might not trust those impulses that occur to you in the temple considering what spirit you might bring with you there, but I can trust my communications with my Father, and have frequently made significant life-altering decisions after praying in the Celestial room with my spouse. The Holy Spirit which I have sought and communicated with in that place, has never led me astray or born bad fruits. Without that there is no point to having a Celestial room, it would be no different from any room in any building anywhere. Not only do I have 2 or 3 witnesses (that are Apostles) that tell me, I have many of personal experiences that have assured me that the temple is the house of God.

Thanks, I know about the Son, that is why He is the 'son' he was still learning. But I can't find anything on it about the Father. But thanks anyway, Maiku.

YEs, but if the translation you are reading is incorrect, then you don't know what Mark said about it. IF you have the correct translation I think it would help quite a bit. the JST was not Joseph Smith's opinion, but a correct translation of what he was reading. If you would look at it you would know that. Mark didn't write it in English. You know, have you asked this question in prayer and sought personal revelation about it? I think that would be much more important than conjecture.

It is the House of God where He can literally dwell. He cannot be in unholy places, so no the whole point to the temple is that it is holy ground, meaning that evil is not allowed there. If you are on holy ground and have evil thoughts, it is because you brought them with you. When you are in the temple you are out of the world. The world is where Satan is. That is why the temple is sometimes referred to a refuge, both present day and in the scriptures. Pres. Monson referred to it as a "sacred santuary" in a recent talk The Holy Temple?a Beacon to the World - general-conference The world can be a challenging and difficult place in which to live. We are often surrounded by that which would drag us down. As you and I go to the holy houses of God, as we remember the covenants we make within, we will be more able to bear every trial and to overcome each temptation. In this sacred sanctuary we will find peace; we will be renewed and fortified.

You can read some in D & C 45 about this. Also there is a JST of this chapter of Mark which makes more sense. It reads to me that the generation that is on the earth at the time these signs begin will not pass away before all of the signs have been given, that it will all happen within 1 generation. But read the JST for yourself and maybe it will make more sense. Joseph Smith?Matthew 1:34

Is this doctrine that the church teaches somewhere like in a manual? I have not found where I can read about this expanding glory? Thanks

Perfect Perfect Complete, whole, and fully developed; totally righteous. Perfect can also mean without sin or evil. Only Christ was totally perfect. True followers of Christ may become perfect through his grace and atonement. It is my understanding that God is perfect, being without sin or evil, complete, whole, and fully developed. I don't know where the doctrine is that says He will be more of a God than He already is. I have never heard this taught before I was on this site, and I don't know where this idea has come from. Although I have to admit that I have spent a lot of time in primary and in Gospel Principles, and have relied quite a bit on personal study, and it is quite possible that it is a lesson that I have missed due to callings involving teaching milk. I have only heard increase in a sense of our knowledge of God increasing, population increase, or maybe increase ourselves to make ourselves better, possibly increase as in worldly resources, oh and our ability to use the power of God increasing, that sort of thing. I have also been searching on LDS.org for more info on this and so far have come up with no lessons in manuals about it... could someone possibly offer a link to a lesson or talk?

I just now read this... how sad really for the literary community. I too fell in love with the world of Pern when I was younger, before I was converted. Since then I have shied away from stories that talk about s-x. It leads me to inappropriate thoughts and is more temptation than I can handle, so I had to make a clean break. I have tried reading the new ones by Todd, but I find they have way too much in the way of lust and significantly less story. Anne created a world with magic and honor and beauty, maybe someday she can create another one.

Satan cannot be redeemed because he chose not to receive a physical body. He cannot be baptized. In order to enter into the kingdom of God he would have to be baptized and confirmed. To have a fulness of joy we have to have a spirit and a body combined. D & C 93: 33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; Once we are resurrected we will have both our spirit, cleansed by Christ, and our bodies made perfect, with the two combined we can then receive a fulness of joy. Satan can never have this, and he knows it. That is why he is so angry.

Okay, maybe I have to start a new thread, but where is the doctrine that says God is increasing his glory. I can understand the idea of eternal increase, like in a population sense, but how does increasing population change the state of His being? I have seen this on here before, but I don't understand where it has come from.

I do think that allowing your husband to physically punish your son in the first place was a bad idea. I do think there is significance in the fact that he has a problem with the boy from your first marriage. I think the problem in the relationship stems possibly from the boy reminding your husband of your first husband, and he is jealous. The fact that he does not do this to the other children tells me that he is not foremost an abuser, but is an abuser because of another issue. I would suggest counseling with family services for your husband. He needs to work out his anger issue toward that particular child, and ask forgiveness for what he did. Whether or not you should divorce, I don't know. Divorcing him might not say, "I love you," to your son, since you allowed it to happen in the first place. See if your husband is willing to accept that he did something wrong, and if he is ready to go to counseling about it. While I do believe that anything can be repented of, really the only advice I can give is maybe to fast and go to the temple and pray. Whatever answer you get, follow it. Don't make a decision out of anger, you will always question it later in life when your anger has cooled. Make a decision based on all of the information and then pray. You know in conversation about your son, it might help your husband understand just how bad it was by talking about the boy as a child of God. When you say, "I don't like what you did to my son...." it might hit home more if you point out the individual worth of the child, and his eternal nature. My, yours, whichever, that is a child of God and should be treated as such regardless of where the genes came from.

I don't think one should rush into a sealing just for the sake of being sealed. While we do want to be obedient, I don't think someone should get sealed unless they do not wish to be in the eternity without the other. I would hate the idea of spending an eternity with someone who only got sealed to be obedient, it undermines my individual worth.

The best way I have found of learning what the church teaches and believes is serving in the church. The true gospel is not just talk, it is doing. See for yourself if we can walk the walk or if it is just talking the talk. Look for and participate in local service activites and see what kind of spirit the people involved are exhibiting. For example, in our ward this week we are taking care of the local community soup kitchen. I love working there, and I love it that the sisters in the ward go the extra mile and bake special additions to the meals served, and even collect coats and warm clothing to offer for those that need them. One of the best things about church is the opportunities to become more like our Savior.

Evil cannot be where God is. We were with God, so we could not be in the presence of evil, that is why Satan was cast out. IF evil and sin existed, it wasn't where we were. Earth had to be created for us to progress and be tested, we could not be tested where we already were because the test required the presence of evil. There had to be a neutral testing ground where both good and evil could exist for long enough for all of us to get a turn. If we had sinned in the pre-existence we would have had to be cast out immediately just as Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden immediately after their transgression Fall of Adam . Jesus grew in wisdom, having a physical body was part of that. It was necessary for Him as well. We were innocent in the beginning before Adam ate the fruit, as spoken of Doctrine and Covenants 93:30-31 really verse 38. It speaks of Jesus not yet having fulness earlier in the chapter, that is why He is the Son of God, and not God already. He had to grow, too. Sure we knew about good and not good, but we were just told about it. We didn't understand 'why' it was bad. Why? Because God said so...but why did God say so? We coudn't get that then. There are a lot of us that don't understand even now why evil is bad. We have the capacity to understand, but it takes time. Our Stake Pres. came to our ward and gave a lesson in RS. It was great, he spoke about pre-marital s-x and why is it bad? He said take away the possiblity of pregnancy, because we can with drugs now... it's still bad. Take away the possibility of STD's, take away all earthly consequences... say you have extra-marital s-x and then you die, why was it bad? It's not just the consequences that make it bad, it is that it is not like God. To be with Him we have to be like Him, and doing that is choosing not to be like Him, and therefore choosing not to be with Him...that is what is bad. It can be anything unGodlike, anything at all, and it is bad. Can the atonement wash it away? Sure. Do we need to understand that our actions show whether we truly want to be with Him again? I think that is the knowledge of good and evil, not just a list of commandments, but the why beyond the 'God said so'. That is why people who have sinned terribly and have been excommunicated can be in the fold once again, was there truly knowledge of the good and the evil when they committed that sin, was there an understanding of being removed from God's presence and what it would be like? What is the unforgivable sin, testifying against the Holy Ghost, weren't there members of the twelve in the beginning of the latter day church that wrote testimonies and then retracted testimony of Joseph Smith? Weren't some of them later forgiven for using their false testimonies to hurt him and the church? Why? They did not have a full understanding of good and evil. Murder is another big one, aren't murderers forgiven and returned to the fold once they have repented, etc? Why? same thing, they had a lack of understanding until after the sin was committed. Some die before getting that knowledge of good and evil. You may remember, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” [Luke 23:34.] Even after the teachings we recieved in the pre-existence, the teaching we get here on Earth, the knowledge of good and evil handed down from that fruit, they still did not know exactly what they were doing even while they were doing it. Every time we sin, do we really know what we are doing? If we really knew we wouldn't do it in the first place. We certainly wouldn't do it twice. So yes, we have some knowledge of good and evil, but not all understanding of it, or else we would have ascended right up into heaven by now. We had even less understading of it in the pre-existence. How much of a difference? What is the difference between the 'Light of Christ' which can tell us good from bad, and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost which can do the same? There is a world of difference, the latter does so much more. In the pre-existence we did not have the Gift of the Holy Ghost, or else why would it be given to us twice? And yet it is knowledge telling us what is right and wrong, what we shoudln't do and what we should. Some would say what is the difference, well, you really have to experience it to know the difference, don't you. The same is the difference between our knowledge of good and evil before as compared to what it is for us now.

A cherubim is a heavenly creature, usually given the task to guard something. For example they are found in the holy of holies to guard the mercy seat, the way to the tree of life.. Here is a link that explains about the wings, etc, and cherubims https://lds.org/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel/exodus-25-30-35-40?lang=eng&query=cherubim

When false doctrine gets taught and no one does anything about it. I have heard some real doozies in time, too. Once was how non-members are 'the wicked' and should be avoided at all costs. Once was that investigators should feel eternally grateful to Born-in-the-covenant members for being 'allowed' into their church. Once was that God will forsake us, even when we are keeping our covenants and doing all that is asked of us to keep the Spirit with us. All of the above taught by ward leadership. So if I try to say otherwise I look like a jerk. Can't we just stick to the manuals for once? Time and again I have had bologna dished at me, had to explain what is going on to the investigator sitting next to me, and tried to recover from the backlash of said haughtiness. It drives me nuts. Insert facepalm here. Another one is when a leader says nasty things about others (those receiving assistance, or investigators, someone going through a particulary difficult trial or death in the family, or long term illness) right in front of everybody and they aren't even sorry because they are so convinced they are right. I never know what to say. I used to speak up and say something nice about the victim, but it doesn't work, they want to believe what they are saying, they are doing on purpose to make themselves feel like good people. Now I just leave the room.

Oh! I just gave a talk and used this. I have always thought, no way, I would so tip my lamp and share my oil, whatever. But I finally got some understanding when preparing this talk. I was talking about the temple. I went to the temple and got my endowments before my husband did. He did not have any desire to go at the time, and I had already waited 5 years to go. So I went. I learned a lot, and I felt so loved by my HF, and content, and peaceful. I kept going back, and my hubby wanted to know what was up with the temple thing... and I told him, "I really wish I could tell you, but I can't, you have to go for yourself." The things I was gaining from the temple (faith, hope, charity, experiences, a spiritual filling of my cup) I couldn't give to him, no matter how much I wanted to, because you can't make someone feel something, you can only wait for them to get it for themselves. He did get curious, and saw the changes in me and decided to find out for himself. Everyone has to have their own testimony, so when the winds blow they have that oil to help them keep thier light going. Recently I went to the temple with my kids for baptisms. My youngest daughter has been very obedient with church things, but had never had a solid testimony of her own. When she was at the temple, though, the spirit communicated with her and she recognized Him and for the first time got a solid testimony. I was so releived. She is getting her own oil. I had a really great quote to about it, if I can find it I'll message it to you or something.

Angles do not have wings, HC 3:392 sorry, no link

Found something new, wanted to see what everybody thought. I love it. Check it out the Pearl of Great Price student manual, Moses 1:6 The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual The Book of Moses cool