jayanna

Also, if it helps any to think of this...my hubby and I met very briefly when I was 16 with long dark hair, and zero wrinkles. He wouldn't have anything to do with me, barely acknowledged I was there. It was after I had grown into womanhood, with children, that I turned his head. on a side note I want to share...it was so funny...I was in a grocery store and he saw me again and ran smooth into a bakery display!

Thanks, everybody who particpated in my thread, I don't start one very often. I live in a low LDS count area and love having someone to talk about the gospel with!

huh, well if my dh kissed my daughter like that it would certainly change his living arrangement. And how do the kids learn to trust again? years of therapy? How do you get past that? I remember some very embarrassing things I did and had done to me in school, and I can only imagine those being aired on the internet for all to see, couple that with realizing my parent wants to kiss me like that... it actually has made me feel ill We don't want to see our daughters kissing anyone like that, much less each one of us!

Thanks guys, I needed it too

simple, unpretentious, nice.

Well, people can laugh and snicker at me, I don't mind, but I have gone to the temple in prayer. I have gone to the temple when facing surgery, or not. I have gone to the temple in prayer for my ex-husband to allow my husband to adopt my two little girls, and he did. I have gone to the temple in prayer when my dh did not want to, and he soon changed his mind. I have gone to the temple with prayers so many times...and they have always been answered. Every time, immediately. I do pray in restaurants when with my family. We pray just as we do over dinner at home. I really don't care what people think of it. My children are not ashamed of their faith, I have told them plenty of times to pray when they feel they need help, and they have. My daughter has prayed at school before a test she was worried about. I have prayed about what to say to an overbearing, narcissistic coworker. I have asked others to join me in prayer, my husband being one of them on our first date. He knew then and there that I was more than he expected, that I wasn't someone to consider living with and not consider my faith. That prayer was also answered then and there, regardless of the other people in the restaurant...with words...a still small voice in words told me the answer to the question I asked in a restaurant full of people...told me something that would happen that has been fulfilled...if it were a sin, the Holy Ghost would not have answered me. You can laugh or snicker or joke, keep your jokes, I'll keep my answers. I'll stand as a witness at all times and in all places. The moment I feel I need to pray, I will. That doesn't mean I have to drop on my knees in front of everybody, but a soothing quiet moment with my head bowed and humility in my heart, and a willingness to listen and follow have worked for me time and again. He has never turned from me, and I don't want to turn from Him no matter who may be watching.

I know that you love your wife a lot... and you put a lot of thought into this gift, which is the loveliest part of it :) I would suggest thought that if she asked for Jesus the Christ specifically, you might want to get it as well, just in case ....Hope you have a great Christmas!

The temple is first and foremost a house of prayer. There is a time and a season for all things. While there is a time and place to kneel in prayer, while in the celestial room is not it. Do you kneel in prayer in sacrament? In the restaurant before you eat your meal? During someone receiving a blessing, or maybe receiveing the Gift of the Holy Ghost, or even a baby blessing? Of course not, it is not the time or place for that. There is a reason for kneeling, maybe your answer lies there. I would suggest going to the temple office and saying you have a temple question, and then asking the question when the appropriate priesthood holder is there to answer it for you. I know that they welcome questions, as I've had several, and I have never been treated shortly or disrepectfully when I have one.

Nice, Martian, very nice I do have to say, Sugarcrane2, that it drives me nuts, absolutely nuts when teachers add in their own weird stuff to the manuals...I don't understand why they feel the need to spice things up with their own conjecture. This kind of thing has bothered me for years in attending classes. Personal tesimonies are great, but adding to doctrine for an emotional effect just does not set well with me at all. The advice I got from my SP was to study up as much as I can about what has been taught incorrectly, so that when it comes my turn to teach it, I'll know what is right and where to find it. This has been really helpful to me, and puts me more at ease. I hope you find more about the true gospel in your studies, and I know you'll find more peace there. :)

Vort's smilie chortle!!!!!!! You guys are so funny, tears, actually, running out the corner of my eye

Okay, now wait a second....Let me get this straight....I might just be recovering from the whiplash but... other churches...that say they are Christian....don't believe that Jesus is the Son, as in the only begotten Son of God? Is that what this thread is about? I am still trying to wrap my brain around this. They believe that Jesus is just His Son figuratively because they have a relationship...but He is not the actual SON of God? He never said, "the other part of me in heaven" He said His Father in Heaven...and they look alike, if you've seen Him, you've seen His Father. He prayed to His Father. Our Heavenly Father claimed Him as His SON. I don't know how much more clear it can be. He had a mortal mother, where he inherited death, and an immortal father where he inherited the ability to be resurrected. How else could that happen, a God dies and is resurrected? And the people that go to these Christian churches know that the doctrine of their church says that Jesus is not the Son of God? Am I understanding this right?

Well, something interesting concerning the book Jesus the Christ happened to me recently. I pointed out to someone at the library I work at that the Mormon doctrine collection of our religion section contained 2 BOMs and 4 or 5 anti-mormon books. So, they asked me for a list of books I would like to have added to the section....hhhmmmm. Well, I wasn't sure, so I asked the missionaries, my husband, the bishop, and they all said the the same book as #1, Jesus the Christ. Answered that question for me. They ordered that one and about 5 others, two or three were written by Talmage. I sent an investigator to that section and she is reading Jesus the Christ right now. I've read it, and I don't think it is outdated at all.

Well, I don't know. That is a good question. But if you didn't finish seminary, there are still lots of great places to serve a mission! I joined the church as an adult and I certainly hope to serve a mission.

Acts 3:21 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. There needs to a be a restitution of all things, where the gospel was lost and brought back again. This is speaking of the restoration of the gospel to the earth. It is also spoken of in Daniel. Daniel 2:44 The kingdom that God shall set up, after the others have broken up, is Zion, the Church of Jesus Christ. And instead of being consumed or led by others we have "broken up" in wards and branches and stakes and missionaries sent out in twos, throughout the world and consuming all these nations. When you consume something you make it part of yourself, when we consume the kingdoms of the earth, we do it by making them part of us. And this kingdom will now stand forever. The stone that is cut without human hands is the true word of God that is not altered by men that has built and continues to lead the Church of Jesus Christ in these Latter Days. Notice as time goes by from the time of the prophets of old, the materials of the statue become less and less precious. The kingdoms are getting further from the true word of God. This is foreknowledge for that king (and Daniel) to know what would come in the latter days. The stone cut without hands has gone to other countries and is consuming them. If the kingdom of God never fell, then why would there be a necessity to make a new one?

About in which way God is perfect, I think it is all three. I think that Jesus was perfect once he had resurrected and received His perfect body...in the way that He was fully developed. We also need not only the atonement washing away our sins, and our ordinances to develop us, but also that perfect resurrected body that is like our Father's before we can even come close to considering ourselves 'perfect' in any way. I think it has to be a comination of spirit and body. An example of what I'm talking about: "As Latter-day Saints we are taught that the soul, our real self, consists of both the body and the spirit. (See D&C 88:15.) Neither part can be exalted without the other; both are necessary. Joseph Smith also taught that Satan’s punishment for his rebellion is that “he shall not have a tabernacle.” Without a tabernacle, or a body, our spirits cannot progress. later in the same talk; Latter-day Saints are taught that both the body and the spirit are immortal and that the resurrection is a literal reuniting of body and spirit. We will then be like God in nature, for “the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s.” (D&C 130:22.) Ten years before section 130 was recorded, the Prophet received another revelation which speaks of the nature of beings: “Man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; “And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.” (D&C 93:33–34.) The Body: A Burden or a Blessing? - Ensign Feb. 1985 - ensign

Where we at war with Japan before we were outraged about Pearl Harbor?

Weren't there some caves uncovered near Mexico City with drawings from the type of writing Joseph Smith described in the book of Mormon? Also haven't there been found books made out of metal, and simlarly constructed to the metal plates that were translated? Also, there are horses called 'curlies' here on the American continent that I have seen and to my knowledge their origin has never been explained. They might have been Jews, but those Jews had lived an Egyptian lifestyle for quite a while, due to their enslavement.

But he hasn't prevailed, he can't prevail, he has never prevailed. It was us that was the problem, not Satan, we did it by killing the apostles who had the true priesthood. He didn't prevail, because Jesus lives! He is a living God, who exists in a place where Satan cannot touch Him. He can return and restore (as He promised He would) what He had started. Some might say Satan prevailed, just as they might have thought at the time of Jesus birth when His people had become corrupted once again, when John the Baptist was beheaded, when Lazarus died, when Jesus died on the cross. Little did they know that the whole thing had been known, it had been planned for, death has been overcome, sin has been overcome, a Savior has taken our sins and lives again. HE died and rose Himself up! He tore down His temple and He built it up again. He resurrected Himself! Who else could do that than the literal begotten son of an immortal being? As long as we have a Living Christ, Satan cannot ever prevail. Our Savior is not in the past only, not just words on some dusty pages in a language none of us can read. He is not sleeping, not tired, not busy somewhere else. He is here and present with us, directing us, guiding us. If it seems for a moment that He has left us, that Satan has temporarily overtaken us, it is only because we have distanced ourself from Christ, and we can return to Him. He is constantly waiting. If it took us hundreds of years to figure it out, to become humble enough, to distance ourselves from the state our predecessors where in when they martyred God's own Son and His very apostles, that only speaks to me of the seriousness of those acts. Satan prevail? Huh! That's what those murderers thought they could do when they killed Joseph Smith...did they prevail? Has the church stopped? It grew. Why? Because our Savior Lives! He has already won! He won the moment He rose up inside that now empty tomb!

I clearly says, "All is one day with God," not that He sees it in one day. There is no time there. You can see anything you want. All those things you missed and wished you were there for, you can see them! Like changing channels on the tv, only with your mind. It's cool and kinda scary all at once. Talk about an information highway! You are walking around, thinking where to next, and He says "Look," and you can't help but look down and whoa you are standing in the middle of thin air, or at least it looks to much like standing in thin air that you think you are actually there. You look down on the earth and you can see something happening. He wants you to see something and there it is, I wish I could show you, I wish I could take you there it's amazing. 3D has nothing on it. It's gonna be great Snoozer! His work doesn't stop. It is ongoing, constantly. He speaks, it happens. It is not just the words, but also the intention behind them. Constant, it's beautiful. How tiny does Satan seem now? All he has is this tiny little planet where he bugs people. He knows what's coming for Him, and he is so mad about it all he can do is take as many of us as he can with him. Eternity doesn't go in a line, it goes in a circle, around and around.

I thought I should highlight exactly what I'm talking about. Moses 1:35–38. “There Are Many Worlds” President Brigham Young said: “How many earths are there? I observed this morning that you may take the particles of matter composing this earth, and if they could be enumerated they would only be a beginning to the number of the creations of God; and they are continually coming into existence, and undergoing changes and passing through the same experience that we are passing through” (in Journal of Discourses, 14:71). Moses 1:35–39. Jesus Christ Redeemed All of God’s Creations Elder Marion G. Romney, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, taught: “Jesus Christ, in the sense of being its Creator and Redeemer, is the Lord of the whole universe. Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants. … “… In short, Jesus Christ, through whom God created the universe, was chosen to put into operation throughout the universe Elohim’s great plan ‘to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man’—the gospel of Jesus Christ—the only way whereby man can obtain eternal life” (“Jesus Christ: Lord of the Universe,” Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46, 48; see also D&C 76:19–24). Jesus Christ created not just this world, but the universe. All the worlds in it have the same relationship with Him that we do, except we have had his mortal ministry. That is so amazing to me.

Snoozer, I think I am understanding your perspective a little bit better. I really think that God lives outside of time. This lesson explains it, and it explains some experiences that I had concerning it. The "brought to pass" is necessary for us, we need time to develop while He does not need time. Alma 8 Now whether there is more than one time appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; for all do not die at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men. Alma 40:8 7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. Doctrine and Covenants 130:4-7 Everything is. He has made promises to us about the future. Our covenants with Him depend on Him keeping them, how can He know that He will keep them unless He already has? Words have such powere there. When He speaks, it has already happened, all He has to do is speak it and there it is. All He has to do to see something is to think He wants to see it, and He sees it. When we get to eternity, there will be no time. That is why our sealings are for time and all eternity. Eternity exists without time.

Here is a talk about personal revelation Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets - general-conference Here is a lesson about the Holy Ghost and personal revelation from the teacher's manual for the adult Sunday School. Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher?s Manual Lesson 6: ?I Will Tell You in Your Mind and in Your Heart, by the Holy Ghost? Yes, the Holy Spirit will recieve a body and all the blessings that we recieve. It will be during the Millennium, though I don't have on hand the source. Ill look for it tomorrow morning and post it. Good questions :)

If God does not have a body, and Jesus did not have a body until he was born to Mary, then how was Adam created in His image? How did Stephen see Jesus sitting on the right hand of God? I think they are one like my husband and I are one, like my family is one. We are separate persons, with one purpose, not divided against each other, and when one of us is happy or unhappy, the other is also. One of the reasons we have relationships such as husband and wife, parent and child, is so that we can understand the relationships that God and His Son have. These relationships help us to grow more like Him. Not speaking in the abstract, but concretely, I do know that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are two different people. The Holy Ghost does not have a body, and Jesus does...also their voices are different. When Jesus speaks it is from a certain place, like someone is standing next to you, but you can't see them and they are talking. His voice is sharp and clear. The Holy Spirit is a still small voice, a man's voice, that only your spirit can hear. It is a deeper voice, a bit fuzzier like a whisper. I haven't met God yet, but I think His voice (the one that comes from his literal mouth) will be different from Jesus' voice, just like my mother's is different from mine.

Interestingly enough, I was judging at a debate competition that was over the topic of healthy body results in a healthy mind. I think that it is applicable to your discussion about ill health being a result of sin. One excellent point that was brought up in the debate was that prisoners are often extremely fit. They have a lot of time to work on their muscles, as well as resources given them to lift weights and engage in other physical activites. However, their improved health does not indicate in any way whether or not their minds are improved. In fact many of them revert back to the anti-social, violent cycles that they had been in previous to their incarceration. While they might have been given an opportunity for higher education depending on the facility and the resources available, I don't believe a significant amount of them show any sign of an improved moral character, or an improved reasoning abilities. So the line of reason of healthy people = good people does not really follow the proof we find in the penal system. Now for my disclaimer, I would not specifically say that all people in the penal system are bad people, or do not improve themselves. I do realize that they have specific challenges when re-entering society that others do not face. I am specifically adressing the greater health vs. greater mind debate and its association with health vs. sin.

Okay another discussion on from the book of Moses. You might have to scroll down a bit. The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual The Book of Moses Also from the student manual, I find this to be very interesting, and am glad to have a manual to help me explain this to my children during our scripture study. How wonderful the gospel that is available to us. I believe we have this piece of it so that we can know how complete the plan of salvation is, and that there are other worlds that God has created. These other worlds also belong to Him. I don't know if there are any other churches that support the doctrine of life on other planets. It is very comforting to me that this has been made known to us. I remember watching a video of testimonies that spoke about it as well, I believe it was called, "Special Witnesses of Christ" or something like that. I remember it was the twelve sharing their testimonies, I saw it when I was investigating.