estradling75

Because you think like a man... (So do I so that is not intended as a dig). Historically Women have been oppressed for a very long time... Its taken a lot of effort to swing that pendulum toward equally... But as the Presidential Debate showed men do not always treat each other very nice either. Sadly women do not see this, or they see it but still believe/hope they can get all the advantaged of begin treated like a man but none of the downsides. This is not a rational or logical position but rather an extremely emotional one. No matter who is doing it is very human to want all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of what is expected of you. And to only see all the advantages and none of the disadvantages that others face.

Interesting... Most of the women that I have heard from who watched the debate (even those pro Pence) think he really did not do himself any favors. Objectively you can point to the time being equal even with the interruptions... But a man interrupting a woman (no matter how justified) simply does not play well. Men might be perfectly OK with it, but half the vote is women and you have to take that into consideration. An idea/paradox that any Husband should be familiar with.

Indeed... Take for example our earthly parents. They are our parents and they have begotten us. But they are also our Brother and Sister because we are all Children of Heavenly parents. Having one type of relationship status does not preclude the other from also being true. We are children of Heavenly parents and we are also co-enteral with them. One does not preclude the other.

It seems to me that Racism is simply tribalism in another form. Humans are social creatures and we tend to be supportive of those we see as "Us" and hostile to those seen as "Other" While the definition of "Us" and "Other" can and has change our responses to it generally have not. The gospel teaches that we are all Child of God making everyone an "Us". Yet we live in a world that is trying to make everyone an "Other"

The polarization that we see the country has undergone is being felt here. This forum is for the Church of Christ's restored Gospel. And all are welcome here as long as respect that. A large part of the Church membership (or at least the membership represented here) tends to have the same political leanings. This leads those that feel differently to feel like they are second class citizens. It does not help that we are all flawed and are not as Christ-like as we should be.

Exactly. I have very little tolerance for people who ask question but clearly don't pay any attention to the answer. He knows we believe in the bible, yet he gives bible verses as if he thinks we are unaware and hearing them for the first time. Yes we believe in the bible, but better yet we actually read the bible and have an understanding of it. And the idea that someone can read the creedal definition of God... and say yeah I understand that.. but then say godhead is just not understandable is laughable at best.

See this is the kind of self confirmation bias I am trying to avoid. You say you hear contradicting things but instead of realizing you have no clear facts you focus and quote on the stuff you wish to be true. Then @NeedleinA gives the results of his brief Facebook post fully acknowledging the flaws inherent in that information gathering process. Yet you felt the need to attack it anyways, and your attack is illogical. If there are "Latinos for Trump" and "Blacks for Trump" were would you expect them to hang out and announce themselves? On a Democrat or Liberal leaning site? We all know that wouldn't work and makes no sense. One should not expect accurate demographic data from what NeedleinA found. And he never claimed that was what it provided. He explicitly claimed that it counters the narrative that only racist white men support Trump, and to that end it is completely solid finding.

I tried to watch the debate but I could not get past all the talking over each others... But lucky for me I just found this summary https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000007370133/presidential-debate-weird-al.html?action=click&gtype=vhs&version=vhs-heading&module=vhs&region=title-area&cview=true&t=22

I did not know that... I wanted to avoid the trap of expecting/demanding that every person must be thinking like I do. I have seen to many fall into it and therefore thing that the "other side " must be hemorrhaging voters and could not possibly win. Only to be very unpleasantly surprised and thinking/demanding that it must of been because of cheating. Therefore I think it is safer to assume everyone is entrenching in their position rather then changing position. Unless of course you can find pretty solid evidence (not just hope or expectation) otherwise.

I agree with @Scott and @Just_A_Guy. We were polarized in the last election and Trump won. We are still polarized. Those that voted for Trump before knew what they were getting and Trump consistently delivered that including in this Debate. Thus it does not seem like Trump has lost any of his prior support, and if he doesn't then he wins... again. Biden most likely has all of Hilary's voters. But that is demonstrably not enough. He needs to pull away Trump's voters and Trump being Trump is was not enough last time and it is not enough this time to do so. He needs to get the 3rd party voters who are hard to get while holding your base, he needs to get the first time voter, and didn't vote last timers. As a 3rd party voter I know I am feeling no desire to vote Biden. And I know a young first time voter who feels very betrayed that the Dems went Biden instead someone more radical. For Biden to win he needs to do more then rally his base... he needs to pull in more.

My track record in predictions have been abysmal... So much so that I am starting to make predictions that I hope to be proven wrong on.. Sadly it seems whatever fate controls these things wants me to be wrong... even if it has to make me right to do so

It definitely made me more tolerant But you know how it goes... you have whatever you feel your flaw is and you think everyone is judging you for it. In reality there might be some but (hopefully) not as many as you would image. As we develop in discipleship we become slower to take offense and quicker to try not to give it. In this case my wife and I feel that anyone would have issues with disruptive kids needs to be there more, so we will rotate so they do not get offended.

I predict that the Republicans will say that Trump won the debates and the Democrats will say Biden won.

I totally understand that. My situation is from a different but the result has been much the same. I have a special needs son, he is not vulnerable, but he is incredibly disruptive. My wife and I have not been to church together for about 8 years, because one of us is home with him. With the pandemic we have been able to partake as a family, and he is there too.. being as disruptive as always, and it does not matter. We do not have to worry that he is hindering anyone else's attempt to worship or feel the spirit. Just being able to be together has made it some of the best sacrament services we have had. Then we started the twice every two weeks, and I go off our appointed time so the rest can go on our appointed time. Because followshipping with others is important too.. I am so looking forward to the virtual where we can get both the followshipping and the family in basically the same service.

The thread asked about our experiences. I gave mine. I am a Sunday School President so I am on my Ward's Council so I know the direction in which my Ward is currently heading. That could change of course. (which is why I put "I assume" at the beginning of that paragraph) Whatever others leaders do... well there is nothing I can do about that except... encourage the members to be faithful and if needed do what @Jane_Doe did

We went back to two meeting times every other week a short while ago. Those who did not feel comfortable coming, those who had any symptoms, and those who felt they could not or would not follow the distances and mask wearing instructions, or those that just wanted to... were invited continue having sacrament at home. Sounds like after General Conference we will be going to a every week, one meeting schedule, with a video stream. We will have to open the overflow to keep the spacing requirements. I assume that once again that those who do not feel comfortable coming, those who have any symptoms, and those who felt they can not or will not follow the distances and mask wearing instructions, or those that just want to... will be invited to watch the stream of the service and still have the sacrament at home (The ordinance itself will not be broadcast)

Every member that has been to the temple is under a covenant to consecrate. Anyone who is waiting on something else before striving to live this covenant is being unwise. It is absolutely true that we must do it in the Lord's way and using the stewardships the Lord has granted (and will grant naturally). I think we already know what the Lord's appointed way is and we already have stewardships that we can act with in. I think those that look to historical examples of how the United Order was handled are potentially missing the forest for the trees. The Lord's method is found in scriptures. "Where two or more are gathered in my name there I will be also" and "Be one and if you are not one you are not mine" This method is what the Lord calls for and uses. Gather the stewards together prayerfully, they discuss the what needs to be done and how to do it, then they make a united decision. The Lord's method works at all levels. From families to Ward Councils to the Quorum of the 12. It also allows for implementations that look quite a bit different from each other based on the situation and circumstances. We see this even now between families, wards, stakes, areas, etc. This means the deciding factor in consecration is not property ownership per-say, but rather the willingness to be one. Sadly it is usually issues over property ownership that breaks the oneness

I didn't.... but I totally understand why you would go that direction. What I was trying to say (and very likely poorly) is that through repeated observations that Travel tends to be off in his own world a lot. That while I am sure his responses make perfect sense in his own head (and as he imagined it can or should go) it had repeatedly not translated well to those of us not privy to the interworkings of his mind. This is why many of us choose not to engage him any more. I did not vote for Trump in the last election. I did not feel he met the criteria of Good Character. (Which is Lord's command to us.. thus a judgement I have to make about person for my personal use) and I did not trust what he would do with the powers of the Presidency (Which is a judgement I have to make as a voter). Over the last few years, he has used the powers of the Presidency and I have to acknowledge that my fears were largely misplaced. Sure I don't agree with everything he has done and a lot of people are complaining and screaming about it. But largely all the complainers and screamers are people I expect to complain and scream when the job is being done reasonably like I think it should be done. As for his character his flaws are still there. But the correct use of power (as I see it) is a plus that was not there before.

From reading the copied post it seems they simply lack the idea that we are Literal Children of Heavenly Parents. This understanding would change the whole flow of their logic and conclusions. After all what is found to be logical ultimately depends on what one accepts as fundamental truths

Your frustrations with Traveler are rather common. It is the nature of conversations that people fill in or add their own context to what others say. This can cause confusion and misunderstanding the greater the disconnect is between the desired context and the added context. For whatever reason it appears the Traveler's context additions appear to be permanently dialed up to an 11. This makes it any conversation with him to be frustrating, because there is the conversation you are trying to have, and the conversation Traveler is trying to have are severely disconnected. It like you were missing 3/4 of the conversation that would otherwise make those connections. As for your point... is seems to me that the Dems tactics for awhile now is "Every Republican Candidate is Worse then Hitler" Disproving this pretty easy. Showing that Trump has some good qualities and is therefore not "Worse then Hitler" is straight forward. Mostly because they set the bar to clear so very very low.

Seems likely that Trump will nominate a woman. When he does we will see once again how the Dems truly feel about women, being strong, confident, and independent. The moment they see a woman who does not toe their party line they will unleash hell upon her. It is already starting just from Trumps short list.

On the subject of the voice... in Chapters 9 and 10 it seems to be the Voice of Christ. Whereas in Chapter 11 it seems to be the Voice of the Father (Pretty much the only time we hear the Father is when he introduces the Son). I am not sure why that would make a difference. But if you are pondering why they hear it in 9 and 10 and did not really hear in 11 at first that should be added to the list of things to ponder. On the subject of the Time Frame we read in Chapter 8 verses 1 and 2 that Mormon himself has questions about the timing. He was 400 years after the events in question and we do not know why he had questions. All we know is that he acknowledges a mistake could have been made and goes with what was written. Contextually we have a jump of time at the end of Chapter 10. Chapter 11 begins months after the destruction, with them gathering and remarking on the changes made. One could understand the gathering and remarking right after but the more that time passes the more it becomes the New Normal. To gather and remark on the changes many months later strikes me as some kind of memorial or anniversary, or maybe one of the High Holy Days (I do not know enough about Jewish Holidays to guess)

The gospel has always been rather relationship oriented (Our relationship with Christ, our relationship with our spouse, kids, family, our friends neighbors community) Therefore it should not be a surprise that when these relationships are at the forefront we can feel the spirit more easily. (Christ of Course being the Foremost) We also need to remember that we are covenant disciples of Christ who should have his "Spirit to be with us always." We are also sinful mortals who fail and not always have his spirit with us. We can't have the Spirit with us and not feel it. Therefore if we are not feeling the Spirit, if we are not getting anything out of it, that is on us and we need to repent and do better. Wherever we are, at home, at church, at work, on the road we should have his Spirit with us always... and if we don't... well we should take that as direction on what we need to work on next.

There is a world of difference between a Bishop who knows about a individual situation, who praying about the individual, and who working with and advising said individual on the path they should take. For he clearly has the authority, stewardship, and all the keys needed for that. It is a solution for that individual at that time. But that is wildly different from that said individual then trying to declare that the path his Bishop helped him with is the "One True Path" for everyone. He has no stewardship, no authority and no keys.. but he insist that he is right anyways. It kind of like saying, since the Lord Promise no more Floods, we do not need to board an ark. And since we do not need to.. No one ever needed to. Thus Noah and he family didn't need to board the ark. They only did so because of "Cultural Pressure." Just think of how many more people the family of Noah might have converted if they had not "offended" them by boarding the ark.

In any reasonably approximate democratic government the Laws will and should reflect the collective morality of the people. If we allow corrupt laws then that says something about our collective morality. This is why the Book of Mormon speak harshly about corrupt laws and government. Thus I should vote for my morality to become law, and so should everyone else. The places where the most agree become Laws and the rest do not. As for what parts of my morality should I try to make into Law... well that is were the Golden Rule comes in. I am a flawed and imperfect person, and I live my morality imperfectly. So I have to ask myself if I violated my own standards what would I think would be fair and correct course of action for society to take against me? And that gives me the answer of what the Law should be.