estradling75

True... but again totally Travelers MO. Ignore the fact that I didn't vote for Trump, ignore the fact that I no longer think of myself as a Republican because they went with Trump in spite of his character issues. Ignore the fact that I am one of the people who repeatedly brought up the Lord's standard when we were discussing who to vote for. Ignore the fact that I have never given Trump's sin' a pass. The only thing I have done is point out the failure in Travelers logic when it comes to what he is predicting about Trump's behavior. In stead of defending or clarifying his statement, Traveler evades and then attempts to attack my character. It is such a fundamentally dishonest tactic that tells us more about Travelers flaws of character then it does anyone else's.

Indeed it is a common question... And while we can give various answers fundamentally it is going to come down to having Faith/Trust in God that he is doing the right things. If we have that Faith/Trust then it is simply a matter of trying to see how God sees things which is not easy either. But for those with Faith/Trust in God issues that is a hill they are not ready to climb.. Faith/Trust in God has to come first.

That has been Travelers MO since like forever.

Nice move of the goal post there... First it was 'watch out for when he becomes a lame duck'... But the moment that idea gets any challenge you skip to a totally different idea ( in this case replacement). I will take your wild dodge as an acknowledgment you are completely wrong... And I see no reason to try to discuss things that you clearly have no intention to discuss any further.

If he is as bad as you fear... why would he wait until he is a lame duck? If all he cared about was himself he could have pushed that from day one. He already had four years with the first election. Why would he do a good enough job to get re-elected for another four years if all he wanted was four years as president to do whatever to begin with? Your logic and reasoning make no sense.

From what I understand the Honor Code update removes explicit mention against Homosexual behavior. But the Law of Chasity has not been done away with. In theory this means anything a Hetrosexual couple could do and not violate the Honor Code a Homosexual couple could do... We will have to see if this is true in practice.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a strong central authority. But the local congregations and groups (We call them Wards and Stakes) are totally run by a lay ministry. The "handbook" is part of the training and guidance given to the local lay leadership. This handbook just recently officially got put online in its entirety were everyone can view it.

Honesty given the standard Christian understanding of the Garden and the Fall... I am surprised that more do not have that attitude. I mean think about it. The ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL God sets up a plan. In spite of God being all Knowing and all Powerful, Satan scores a major victory and disrupts God's plan. God either can not or will not fix it and put it back on track the way he originally intended.. and so we all suffer because of what Satan convinced Adam and Eve to do.. until God can be bothered to finally fix things again. Just talking for myself but I would have a hard time having faith and worshiping such a God as described. Which is I think why modern revelation has pushed back so hard on the Adam and Eve story. It make much more sense that the All Knowing, All Powerful God had a plan. A plan totally capable of handling Satan's plots and any choice Adam and Eve made. Satan failed to stop it, Adam and Eve made a choice and God revealed the next step showing how it was going to dealt with. We are exactly where God in his wisdom and foresight planned for us to be... and his plan for us is perfectly capable of handling any choice we might make as well. So the question isn't 'Is God going to handle it?' Or 'How is God going to handle it' or even 'When is God going to handle it?' but rather 'What choices are we going to make?'

Fear can bring out the worst in people. Which is one of the reason fear mongering is bad. (Which is not the same as proper warning so one can be prepared)

I have a similar statement in mine

With your new understanding you might also want to study Section 121 of the Doctrine and Covenants. Its the instructions on handling the Powers of Heaven (aka Priesthood Power)

I think this is true of pretty much all the changes. Sure there has been policy changes... But the fundamentals have not changed. If for whatever reason we did not understand before this is a chance for us to repent (aka change)

Calling it a family opens a different set of issues for the LDS... Namely.. You have Father and Son... so why not Mother and Daughter as well? If you followed any discussion on Heavenly Mother our reluctance to engage beyond what is clearly given in scriptures and modern revelation should be clear

Yeap I know that part... Its how they Convert this Conservative White Male, in to a Racist, Fascist, Sexist, Rapist... No matter how much I protest that those terms are not applicable. Those that demand their definition are the only correct ones are not people that I find I can really have any kind of discussion with. This thread is just another example of that mentality.

Indeed... Communication requires a shared understanding in common. If you understand what I just wrote it is because have a shared definition of the words I used. If one of us has a different understanding of the words being used then communication breaks down and fails. What is the point to knowingly and deliberately failing to communicate?

Special definitions fun.... That means the person might as well be speaking Klingon or Swahili or some other language with out the benefit of letting anyone know

To repeat what Moonbeast32 pointed out. Knowledge of Good... God Said do not eat. (Also the Law) Knowledge of Evil... The devil said eat to become like God. (Also The Opposing and enticing choice) And of course the power to act Adam and Eve had all parts so they had agency in this matter.

I have enough context for my understanding. You are the one choking on this bit of gospel meat... and I can not chew it for you. Ponder on what prevalent lie constantly dogs the reputation of Adam and Eve and their actions. When you understand the context and this is a counter to that, then you can see how you are wresting the words of the prophets just like people wrest the words of Paul. And just because you are choking on it does not give you the right to harm others which is what you are doing.

Joseph Smith also said that the spirit of criticism is one of the first steps to apostasy. God called those men flaws and all. To criticize them when they are acting in the bounds of there God ordained stewardship also is a criticism of God for calling such flawed people to do his work. That is the slope you are on that Vort sees. There is a better way.. It is a harder way... Criticism is the path of the lazy. The better way is straight forward. Joseph Smith taught to understand the scripture (the words of the Prophets) one needs to understand the question being asked. Or to put it another way to understand the Prophets we need to understand the context of their actions and words. Prophets are called to correct the path of the faithful of the church when they start to go astray. This error can be sin, it can be false doctrine it can be anything really that deflect us from the strait and narrow path. The prophets then are going to push really hard to counter the error. That is what God called them to do. However if we take that hard push out of context it can lead to confusion and error. Take for example the writing of Paul. Lots of people use his writing to justify doing nothing at all. "We are saved by Grace not Works" Anti Christians point to this as one of the many contradiction they see and use to deny the word of God. Yet when we understand that Paul was addressing the error of the early saints to continue the Law of Moses and the works related to it. Then we understand the context of Paul's word we see him working diligently and faithfully to do the work of God. It is not Paul's teaching or the teaching of the other prophets that are wrong. The error is in our understanding of their words that is the fault... not the words they used. We see this all the time when the church announces a change... various people jump to the idea that what was done before was some how wrong.. or that the church is some how wrong now. Rather then that the Church drifted a different way and now needs to be pushed back on the strait and narrow. As for Adam and Eve what is the context of the modern leaders comments? What was the context of Lehi's statement about Adam and Eve? That is something we need to ponder as we study the scriptures. Ponder until we harmonize the statements with the rest of the gospel. Your quest for truth will fail if you alienate yourself from those God called to speak the truth to us, because you pull their words out of context and apply them in ways the prophets never meant or intended.

Yeah... I did not vote for Trump... I did not vote for Romney. I don't agree with or understand some of the stuff they do. But it is part of my beliefs and my faith to be charitable and say they are doing what they think is best even when I think that best is completely wrong.

I also tend to think of it as a sin... rather then the soft-selling the actions in the garden. I totally agree with the idea that the plan of God can handle sin... does not mean that it requires sin to function. On the subject of the redemption of Zion being delayed. I doubt it is a matter of false ideas. A member who can't be bothered to do their ministering (and formerly Home and Visiting Teaching) is simply not Zion material until and unless they repent. Once we collectively as members start obeying the commandments given then Zion will form. Until then all we as individuals can do is work on ourselves so that we will be ready for it.

It means the missionary did what he agreed to do when he signed up for a mission. Normally an Elder goes out.. serve 24 months and then comes home. That is a typical Return With Honor case and it is the general assumption. Sometimes a missionary comes home early. Maybe it is a worthiness issue, maybe it is a personal medical issue, or maybe it is some large scale event (like these). Marking some of these early returns as Return With Honor is that the Church recognizes the missionary having done what he agreed to even if it was cut short. Generally when the cause of the shortening of the mission is not the missionaries fault

I am going to go a different direction. You need to focus on what is best for you personally. Let the Lord take care of the missionary. You need to focus on what is right for you... and no one here can tell you what that is. While he is off serving the Lord what are you doing to grow and learn? How are you getting closer to God? The dilemma you face with the missionary is a perfect one to take to the Lord. Wrestle with it, ponder it, pray about it. Maybe you will get it right maybe you will not, but the attempt and the effort will help you grow. What ever happens continue to live your life... Have experiences, go places, do things, hang out with all kinds of people. The future will come soon enough... use what you have been given today the way the Lord would have you use it.

The Democratic power base is "Victimhood" They promise represent/protect/defend you if you are a Victim.... And that sells very well. But it poses a problem in fixing things. Once things start looking better and less "Victimhoodie" Democrats have nothing. They either have to convince you things are not better, not let things get better... or make you their next target. Thus any kind of real progress, real solutions, is a bane to keeping the Democratic leadership in power.

The bolded is the hurtful attitude. The Lord cares about the willingness to serve to the utmost of their abilities... Even if that ability is not much. The church's willingness to allow everyone to serve no matter how great or small is one of the ways they show they are the Lord's servants. It is the attitude of some members that are hurtful.. belittling sacrifice because they do not have much to give. Those members would be wise to remember the story of the widows mite.