estradling75

The Lord said he would sift his church... We saw this with the whole Prop 8 and rainbow movements... Now we are seeing it hit the other side of the political scale, with the face-masks and shut down mandates. In the end we will see who is on the Lord's side and who thinks the leaders have fallen because they disagree with them...

For both yours and @Traveler's post... I am reminded of the saying... Hunger is the best sauce. I mean normally we get hungry and we eat no big deal... But if you have postpone it... and or have a larger then normal calorie spend.. your body lets you know... Food is Good.

Neither party has done right with immigration. Not only like you said is it a slap in the face to those that did it right (like my mother). It also creates a group of people that are easy prey for criminals... Illegals do not want to go to the cops out of fear of being deported.. so they get preyed on... used, and abused because criminals think they can get away with it. You want to talk about Human Rights abuses, or Humanitarian Crisis will there is a big one right here in our borders. And both parties do nothing but call the other party names over it

Indeed... For example I am personally willing to help other individuals. But if one of those individuals has a history of threatening violence against people trying to help, well my religion and faith would excuse me from going over. My responsibly to stay alive for my family trumps, rendering temporary aid to a stranger. When we move this up to the macro scale and immigration it still holds. We help those we can. But those that are threats we do not, because it is not safe to do so. We have an obligation to protect those already here... the only way to do that is to vet those incoming. And large numbers make the vetting more difficult . To have this concerned be so toxicly twisted into pure selfishness and mocking and scorning of the poor an needy shows the fundamental dishonesty of the statement. A variation of this dishonesty is to claim that we think ALL immigrants are criminals and dangerous. We are not saying that they ALL are. We are saying that the odds are that small subset of them are, and that subset needs to be dealt with for the protection of all.

A perfect example of why this country is polarizing. One side demands that we treat every issue they think is important with utmost care and concern... Yet when the other side presents something they are concerned about, the response to attack the character of the person expressing the concern and strawmaning their statements and belief.

In Revelations we learn that there will be Tribulations in the last days and that Lord will cut this time of Tribulation short to prevent it from overpowering the saints. This seems similar to some events recorded in the Book of Mormon. Samuel had prophesied the coming of Christ in 5 years and gave the sign of his Birth. During the intervening 5 years things got so bad that the faithful were scheduled to be executed. Ponder on that Ponder on how bad thing are that we have a (most likely) government driven execution. Please note that at this time one of the Nephi was leading the faithful. So the faithful were following the prophet and they were going to be executed. They were not spared by the Church, or by the Prophet, or by the Government, they were spared by the direct intervention of the Lord in giving the sign. We have no reason to expect the last days to be any better. So the question becomes what can we do? And that answer is also found in the scriptures. When the early saints got repeatably kicked out homes and attacked and mobbed. Joseph Smith prayed for the Lord to intervene. The Lord's answer was very clear. Follow the mortal means of redress, work the system, use the tools already given you and allowed. Then he added, "When" (not "if" but "when") that Fails then the Lord will come out and intervene for his people. So clearly we have a job to do, and just as clearly we should not put our faith in the system to really work but rather keep our faith in and on God. The other thing we are instructed to do is Preach the Gospel. Prophets and scriptures are clear on the power of the gospel message. The scriptures and prophets are also clear that not everyone will accept the gospel message when it is preached to them. Those are our God given tools in these times (and all times really) and we need to use them well.

This is part of why I am a bit baffled by Big Tech in this matter... They are choosing a side.. and the side they have chosen is one that favors high taxes and is generally hostile to Large Corporations... Its just a matter of time before those they have chosen to ally with will turn on them.

Sunday Best is about you (and each individual) choosing to Respect and Honor God, on his day, and while partaking of his Ordinances. Thus our Focus should be God Centered. Part of this also about not distracting others as they also attempting to Respect, Honor, and having a God Centered Focus. Now some might rightly say hey I have enough problems of my own I can't concern myself with what others might be thinking or how they might react to what I wear. While this may be true... its never been God's way, and it is not what he wants of us. So it is not about us (nor is it a place for us to ) expressing our individuality. But rather about our willingness to be one with our fellow saints, as God commands. And that is were the culture of various types take hold. That culture is what defines what that Oneness looks like when it comes to clothing and actions. While God likely really does not care about the dictates of our culture, he has commanded us to become one. Thus while one might fight against a culture, we need to be very careful about breaking oneness with the Saints, because while the first might not be a sin... the second most assuredly is

Information is essential for Human Survival.. Knowing where to find food, shelter, etc is about information as is everything else we might choose to do. If certain platforms have become dominate providers of information then yes that is an issue. I am also old enough to remember other forms of communication that wasn't social media as well, I do not see very many of those left standing, and those that are are but shadows of there former selves (including this site). Legally and morally... if companies want immunity to what other might say and do with there services (aka common carrier) then they can not control or restrict users or content except in the most common and general ways. If however they wish to control the content/message then they should be liable for that content. At this point I would love to see people sue the crap out of Facebook/Twitter etc. For all the hateful and violence promoting posts they have not removed. Since they have abandon the pretenses of being a common carrier they should not have the protections of such. Such arguments made in the court of law would be how we shake this out

I don't know why people would expect 2021 would be better... because we did not solve/fix any of the problems we saw in 2020.

You call it Hive mind. That should call forth the example for which it is named after. Aka Bees. Bee colonies are Hive Minds. While each individual Bee work within their limited information/skillset/role with no one in charge, yet choices are made and collective action is taken by the Hive. The closest and most recent Sci Fi depiction of a Hive Mind that I can think of is the Borg in Star Trek the Next Generation Series. It is interesting for the Movies they felt the need to add a Queen controller because they felt the audience needed the "Villain" to have a face, and the Borg really stopped being a Hive Mind and became a super intelligence at that point. That they felt the audience needed that change is a very human limit, not a limit on Hive Minds

That is one way of looking at it... Another is the definition of Doctrine is "Teachings." The Doctrine of Christ is the Teachings of Christ. The Doctrine of the Church is the Teachings of the Church. And with that understanding the Handbook is absolutely Teachings. The problem is we try to conflate all Teachings to be of equal value, and they are clearly not. Thus we we divide them in to Doctrine and Polices, they are all Teachings of the Church but they are all not of equal value. You do not have to look that far to find things taught in the Scriptures and Teaching of Living prophet that are really not that valuable compared to others. And it seems likely that the handbook follows the same pattern

To use your college degree example... If a person chooses to take 20 years that is their choice. But once they get their degree they better not be expecting to be equal to those that that have been working with their degree for 16 years more then them. Those additional 16 years are gone and not coming back. And with the idea that a college degree equals exaltation which is literally the most important and best thing we can get. Then everyone, including the person on that path should be made very much aware that they are on a sub optimal path that they will most likely end up regretting in hindsight. And if Person A trying to warn Person B that Person B is going to regret the choices they are currently making.. Well that is Person A being a good Christian like they are suppose to be and making sure Person B fully understands the consequences they are choosing. Sadly we live in a world were Person B is being told that they can choose anything they want and there are no consequences. That they can ignore what is important but somehow still claim all the rewards and be equal to those that sacrificed and put in the work. This is a horribly toxic and deceitful lie .

I think that was kind of @Just_A_Guy point... You were saying do not judge period. That is true most of the time. But there are times when we have to judge as a result of some kind of stewardship. Just_A_Guy job gives him such a stewardship on the cases he oversees, and he must make judgements that you were saying should be left to God (Without the clairifier you have added now)

It is pretty systematic of the Democratic/Liberal party. Historically the Democratic and Republican parties have be roughly equal, swapping around the Presidency, and House and Senate Majorities. And Historically the Democratic party have tried to lay claim to the racial and other minorities... Trying to guilt the truly "Vast" majority into caring about the injustices they suffer and the complaints they have. This makes it very hypocritical of them to treat the Republican membership as if they do not exist and their concerns are irrelevant. For proof of this behavior I present the existence of Fox News as evidence. When the largely Democratic/Liberal big news orgs started ignoring half their market, market force dictated that some one would step in and fill the void. Thus Fox News is symptom of the largely Democratic/Liberal big news systematic neglect. The numbers do not lie. Most of the Republicans think there was fraud, Republicans make of of roughly half the population. This is a injustice (even if you think it is only their minds) that affects more people then all the racial and LGBQT (Or whatever the name is currently) issues. Yet despite this he says "Vast" majority does not think there was fraud, and the only way this comment make any sense is if for him Republican lives do not matter. While the Democratic/Liberal parties are celebrating the removal or Trump, they fundamentally misunderstand that Trump was not the cause whose removal fixes things. He was and is a symptom. Since the root cause still exists and has not been dealt with, it will simply manifest another way

And as I said if we focus/fixate on just one we slip into error. Another is the problematic conflation is idea that Primary = Sole (as the example you shared) This is simply false and not supported. For example my wife is the Primary Nurturer of my children... If she was the Sole Nurturer I would be getting reamed out up, down, left, right and by anyone and everyone, and deservedly so. But just because I can and do... do the role does not mean I am the Primary provider, as my kids amply demonstrate when they will pass right by me like I am not there to go to their mother when they need something. Yet for some people only the man can provide financially and he must do it Solo... which is not supported. The only warning when being a equal partner helping your spouse is that you do not neglect/reduce your primary role (Unless you have need for the death/disability/Other adaptation) The big problem I see isn't people figuring out was works best for them.. the problem I see is culturally we think we need more then we really realistically do. We do not have to look back that far into our history to see examples of people doing just fine with much much less.

The full quote is The bolded are were people are fixating. Yes the Fathers have divinely appointed roles Yes the Mothers have divinely appointed roles Yes they are to help each other as equal partners And Yes they can adapt as needed for their circumstances None of the statements being true negate the other statements as also being true. Fixating on just one or two leads a person into error. Someone adapting to their circumstances does not negate the divine roles, it means they have adapted. The big issue is are their people adapting without the necessary conditions? This is probably happening... But chances are if we were to make such a judgement about someone it would fall in to Unrighteous Judgement category because we generally hold no stewardship that is necessary to be making that judgment righteously.

All accusations he had leveled against him back when he ran the first time.. so nothing new there. It does appear he is out of time to Gain the Presidency. I do not think the House is going to challenge the College vote and I do not think the Courts will reverse it now... However I do not mind him continuing because and much as we are mortal and fraud will happen... I'm not ok with ignoring it, and his selfish interest are aligned with dealing with it at the moment.

Opps... Thanks for the correction. For some reason I thought it was the 20th

For me not an issue. Its not a "Thus Saith the Lord," it does seem to be the most likely case. And Leaders are entitled to there own opinions. None of that bothers me, I'm bothered by those who think Trump is doing something fundamentally wrong with his challenges

OK I'll wait for you to answer. So part your answer is that you are okay with fraud as long as it is 'normal'... I think I am misunderstanding you on that point. The electoral college vote has not happened yet, but everyone is counting as a done deal. Trump has not conceded, and the vote has not happen but everyone thinks it done. So of course Trump has to be the one to say it because no one else will. And you did not answer the question about a President viewed as fraud and the damage that could cause... You evaded it by saying most people would not view it as fraud while acknowledging a normal level fraud which has me all kinds of confused.

I tend to agree with this assessment. Trump's fighting while for his own interests, he is bringing to light issues that need to be fully investigated not just discarded because people are impatient for the Rule of Law to finish Then I will ask you the same question other who want to rush this have also not answered. What do you think will be more damaging and hard to fix... Letting the Courts continue to shoot down the challenges, or shutting down the challenges and putting in to office a President that roughly half the country thinks did not win the election, but was not allowed to challenge it?

Indeed... It shows they did not want Justices that ruled based on Law...They wanted Trump to pack the court just like Dems threaten to

To expand on this idea. We have the postal service and the telephone service, both of these are protected. Both of these services allow information to come to you unaltered, the end user it responsible for taking the proper action based on what they give. The services themselves are protected from being sued if you are being harassed, threatened, or if you make bad choices based on what comes through. Digital media was thought to be largely the same, and there is a good reason for that. For if Facebook, Twitter, and You Tube and other, in as much as they are showing a person what they have selected to get or someone selected to send a person they would be well within the protections offered. But they do more then that. They also suggest, based on your personal information that you have surrendered by using the platform, they offer up "You might also like" The moment they do that they become a publisher as well. This also causes problem. While seeing the larger world is good, these Suggestion do not show you the larger world. They show you the smaller subset of the world that it thinks you are interested in, thus people begin to think that the whole world is made up of people like them, and the people not like them are horrible violent criminals... Thus people start becoming indoctrinated. The fix of course is to stop the variations on the "You might also like" and the customized searches. But that hits their bottom line and they do not really see it as the problem (because who does not want to be validated that the world thinks like them). Thus they try to solve the symptoms rather than the cause. They flag accounts, posts, the look for key words, and otherwise try to be come a Nanny to protect the people from a problem that they have fundamentally caused. They are now clearly in the Publisher category because they are taking editorial control of the content. Our laws simply need to catch up to this reality.

No it was not. It was a Crisis of the Goverment and for the US as a nation... But not the Constitution... But as long as you conflate the two you will be confused. Here is a pro tip... In the Constitution there is nothing dictating the number of States one must have in order to be Constitutional. By default you need one, and more then one is assumed. Beyond that there is no Constitutionally mandated requirement. Here is another pro tip. The Constitution say the States Choose the Electors for voting for President. It is utterly silent on how they should choose them. The States could choose to use Harvey the Wonder Hamster to choose their Electors and it would be Constitutional. Therefore the cases challenging fraud of the election will fail if it is just about the method being Constitutional. It has to be Did the States follow their own rules and laws? If they did not what they did was Illegal... not Unconstitutional. (Everything Unconstitutional is Illegal but not every thing Illegal is Unconstitutional.) Your Brigham Young quote are about the Nation so those are solid. But @Just_A_Guy Pointed out how Brigham Young through his actions understood the Saints and Priesthood need to step up. As for the action you miss it because it does not fit with what you want to hear. The Elders of the Church need to live by and support politicians who up hold the Constitution and work to remove those that do not. This need will only grow as time goes on.