estradling75

Which is the judgmental idea that many of us are talking about. You are basically calling the vast majority of those saying "I know" to be lying or at the very least mistaken, even if you do not really mean to. The first Principle of the Gospel is not Knowledge is it Faith... People who get hung up on Knowledge (either for or against) are hung up. And if it damages Faith then repentance becomes necessary

Recently in the Come Follow Me program we studied the Gifts of the Spirit. D&C 46 If it is a gift of the spirit "To Know" and "To believe" it seems pretty presumptuous for us to require or declare that someones "Knowing" is a false idea because they did not see with there eyes or hear with their ears... and that they Only really just believe. It seems to deny the Gifts of the Spirit. On a more practical note... Using my example of the Sun Rising... How many times do I have to see the sun rise before it is acceptable to say "I know the Sun will rise" if I do not know why? It seems to me constant tiny confirmations adds up, but I can't say when it crosses over because its probably different for everyone. That being said its very possible that there are some people out there are saying "I know" when they don't... and others that doubt what they know because it did not come in some powerful ways.

Its because we have sloppy terminology. Faith means different things to different people. So when having these kinds of discussions we need to agree on what terms mean. And for defining what faith is I prefer the Lectures on Faith definition https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/lectures-on-faith?lang=eng It defines Faith as belief or knowledge in action... thus the statement 'acting in faith' becomes redundant. Not everyone uses the same definition not even the scriptures which compounds the problem. Here is an example of how it works with the definition just given. I see the sun rise in the morning.. so I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. I then study astronomy and learn about the sun and how the earth spins and it is the spinning that causes the sun to appear to rise every morning... Now i have knowledge. Now it seems clear that knowledge is better then belief. But neither are better then Faith nor are they Faith. Faith is when I choose to see the sun rise so I get out of bed at the correct time and look for it. That is a set of action based on my belief or my knowledge.. when it comes to faith neither is really superior to the other in making it happen, but one of them is necessary.

Sounds like a variation of the your money is Our Money... but my money is My Money. In my home we kind of recognized that my wife is the Performer of Events... and I am the Doer of Tasks... while that is highly generalized and simplified overview it does give the overall idea. My wife is a better multi-tasker then me, but that also makes her more prone to distraction. I don't mult-task as well but I push it through. So for household stuff, I usually come home and finish the things she started but got pulled away from. So there is a lot of sharing. There are some things that have become some what exclusive. Meals are eventy and she is the better cook. Laundry (baring an emergency) are always tasky so that mine (and I make sure Laundry not being done is never an emergency we have) and I have the stereotypical guy stuff. The rest of the household jobs are flexibly shared between the us and the kids.

The word dependency can be used in few different ways. @mikbone correctly pointed out that we are always dependent on oxygen, water, physics, etc. but that is usually not what we mean when we say an infant is dependent, but an adult is independent. In that case we mean that the person can acquire/fulfill their dependency(in the first sense) without help. For example infants should be independently acquiring oxygen from the very beginning or there is serious problem, but they will not be independently acquiring water or food until they older. Thus we consider infants and children dependent in a way that adult are not. Thus we could say that independence is the ablity to acquiring ones dependency from the surrounding environment. The environment has to be there. But there is more then just dependence and independence. There is also interdependence. If you have to spend all day gathering/hunting food you are not going to get much else done. So you work with others, you trust others, you depend on others and they depend on you. That gets us families and villages and nations. The Gospel is the same, God creates the environment that we all depend on. We are then expected/required to act within that sphere (agency) and form Families, churches, Zion (interdependence) It also works on a very personal level. God supports our very existence, every breath we take (dependency). He wants us to come to him (independent). And to covenant with him (interdependent)

The belief is basically correct but it can drive incorrect behavior. If they believe they already have it... so when they are told what it takes to get it they reject it thinking they do not need it. Well that rejection would keep them from getting it. Its the same idea behind the belief in God's Grace and Love. Its a totally correct belief, but it does not preclude the need to obey God's commandments and do the work commanded of us. Yet many will argue and act as if it does.

A thought of my own triggered by yours... A lot of us think that Zion is going to be a place that we find and join.. in which case strange, and alien it might be... But I do not think our task is going to be to find and join Zion... I think it is going to be/is to Build Zion which requires a much more active mindset then just looking for.

Which is why we need to also speak with our wallets.... They might not listen to our words due to the color of our skin or the sex organs but the color of our money is universal. Note I am not calling for a boycott... But rather everyone to exercise our stewardship wisely, in supporting good causes (as the church has repeatedly counciled)

My personal current, continuing experience runs counter to this claim. I am in a business that performs surveys for long term care facilities. We are not healthcare workers we are surveyors. We get personally identifiable information in order to contact individuals and those individuals might disclose information to us... And we are absolutely under HIPPA our yearly audits by the government check to make sure. As @Just_A_Guy mentions HIPPA can and is complex and murky. It is very possible some occupations can while others can't. For example I can totally see a healthcare worker and or first responders being required to prove things that John Doe programmer would not be. For example the place where my adult sons work offer gift cards if there employees get vaccinated. But they don't require that their employees to prove it. They simply make the claim. This could be how they are negating the HIPPA waters. Encouraging and rewarding, but not compelling or requiring

Yeah... Just like the sexual harassment training... Doesn't stop sexual harassment... it just covers the company from lawsuits when it happens

Heh I was just going to ask... What kind of Career can you get with that minor?

Sure on this forum its fine to disagree... But you are disagreeing with the law... And the law says you do not have the right to an employee of yours medical status.. If as an employer you break the law, then you are subject to fines, penalties, lawsuits and visits from @mirkwood in his professional capacity. You don't have to like a law but you should be really really careful before you decide to break it. Now if an employee of yours comes into work clearly sick or gets sick at work you can tell them to go home and stay home until they are better. But on the subject of vaccine and the work place. Exactly who would you be protecting? Chances are if you wanted the vaccine you have gotten it by now. Those that don't have it either can't or do not want it. The cant's are children or the immunodeficient, neither of which are likely to be your co-workers. So unless you work with those types (In which case you should already be taking precautions) the only people that are at risk are the your fellow 'do not wants.' By choosing not to get the vaccine they choose to take that risk.

What is a potential consequences of not answering? If you tell some "That is a personal question and I am not going to answer it." In both cases the situation becomes a bit awkward. No one likes an awkward situation, but in Church that is about as far as it goes. HIPAA laws are not designed to stop awkward conversations.. But at work its more then that. Why ask the question unless it affect the ability to work? If the wrong answer keeps you from being able to work and provide food for you family then it is more then just awkward it becomes compulsive and/or discriminatory and that is what the HIPAA laws (as messy as they are) are suppose to stop. If you can't work, can't travel, and can't go to the store unless you meet some externally imposed standard. That is very wrong and oppressive, and generally illegal. There is a world of difference between telling a person what they need to do... and forcing them to do it... In the context of this thread and current events the resistance being seen is not about the first but about stopping, limiting, and reversing the second.

Exactly... Those people that have had love ones harmed by the virus will respond differently then those people that have "Oh it the flu season" experience. Given the short time frame most people are going to be in the "Oh it the flu season" category of experience, and they are going to respond like that. It is human nature to value ones own personal experience more highly then the stories that other tells (aka if you are right where everyone is telling you the boogie man is.... but you never see or otherwise experience him, you are not going to think much of it)

Probably... However Polio was also different... Polio was a plague for years, generations even. After that amount of time, most people witness the deadliness of Polio first hand. COVID has been around for just over a year. Most people don't have first hand experiences with COVID, and those that do its normally like a bad flu. Not really that scary. While people like to throw around big numbers about COVID's danger, but Humans in general are bad at math, and it is hard to contextualize it. To put in another way... Parents wanting to vaccinate against polio was because most of them knew kids that died or other wise be harmed from it. But for most people COVID is more like the boogie man that everyone tells you is scary and that you should be afraid of. That does seem to be the trend... But that could just be part of the politicization we are seeing. The if you do not agree with me then you are worst the Hitler mindset.

I think it would be a mistake to separate God's Love.. From God's Commandments. They are not separate things... God's Commandments are an expression of God's Love. God loves us so much that he wants what is best for us.. which is for us to return to him. God's love for us is like the love of a Good Parent has for their child. They love them when they are infants, and totally dependent. They love them when they are trying to be obey, they love them when they are defiant, and they even love them when they are self destructing. The love of a Good Parent does not change, it can be mixed with Joy or Sadness depending on the choices of the Child. However too many people think that the Love of God will trump our agency... But this is a fallacy...The judgements of God are not based on what God chooses on what God love's... but on what we choose... on what we Love... on what we become. And becoming is what the Commandments are all about.

If I had to make the choice between being a victim of repeated racial slurs or the victim of a Homicide ... While I wouldn't like either option the choice would be easy. The slurs every time. And I would figure most people would also make the same choice. In fact it is such a clear choice I would think it so much that I would question the reasoning ability of anyone making a different choice. As such the seems that the moral outrage calculus is easy... Homicidal actions are wrong... and so are racial slurs. Greater then lesser in our expressions of outrage. So when someone expresses their outrage at the racial slurs but the Homicidal action gets a 'well that is bad too' it does call into question if we are operating on even remotely similar moral/ethical systems. Sadly that does seem to be the way our society is going. When racial slurs are used to justify homicides, physical attacks, or property destruction. I think we need to be very clear that no it is not acceptable in any way shape or form.

He would have been better off taking lessons from Scotty

I think one of the problems people are having with this message.... is that it is only half the message. And only half the message no matter how well intention can cause problems for those that ignore, don't know, or think the other half does not apply any more because it was not talked about. The message is also part of this weeks Come Follow me reading. Its about not casting out people who want to fellowship with us... It is very much a commandment, and it is one that we some times struggle to follow. And we can fail this command in many different ways. So being reminded is good, so that is half the message that is being delivered. The half that is missing is the fact that the command to not cast people out is not an absolute one. Rather it is a conditional one. Everyone has to meet the condition to not be cast out. That condition is kind of important too, but it is not address with any words whatsoever. The condition is rather simple... its "earnestly seeking after the kingdom" Now lets be clear its not a high bar, and thank goodness for that, otherwise many of us might be in trouble. But the bar not being high is not the same as the bar not being set and its requirements not needing to be met. Now for this Sister I think we can safely presume that she is "earnestly seeking after the kingdom." But as a message to those struggling it is a incomplete one. Yes you are welcome with whatever temptations and sins that you might struggle with, but you have to be willing to struggle with it. This is true for everyone no matter their sexual orientation. In her message of welcoming she utterly neglected the Lord's conditions for that welcome.

Why do many parents cry when they send there kids off on mission? Its not like the kids are dying... they are just going away for awhile. Yet we have no problem with that. We don't question its appropriateness. We recognize that change can be hard, and that there is some loss, if only temporary. Death is change... Death is loss, even if only temporary one. Its ok and even acceptable to grieve and mourn when this happens. The fact that we believe in a glorious reunion.. does mean we do not have a loss and its related pain now.

On the subject people going through with some pretty painful stuff to make them feel right. Take transgenderism... currently it is in vogue and completely acceptable to have a sexual reassignment surgery if a person thinks it might make them feel better or "more true" to themselves and what they want to be. The science is still very much influx on the results of this. Any rational assessment has to find sexual reassignment surgery, is just as barbaric as "Zap away the Gay." The only difference is zapping started first and triggers the outrage of the Left, whereas sex change is the darling of the Left and they try to cancel anything that they disagree with including challenging their darlings.

People generally are trying to be helpful... and they generally go with what works for them (aka Do unto other as you would have done to yourself) Case in point... some days I do not want to get out of bed in the morning... and some days I have periods of sadness and depression (note the use of the small d there) The answer for me is basically the whole "Just get over myself" mantra... and it works... for me. And there are many who are just like me in that regards... Among that group of people it and variations on it is a perfectly empathic, charitable, and helpful response. It is what will work for them. There is another group with Depression in the realm of mental illness (thus the capital D). For these people the standard method does not work and can make it worse, they need more professional help and possibly meds. The problem is we can not tell which category a person is in just by looking. It is usually only by the first method failing repeatedly, that we normally start looking for more professional help

Heh... I was studying and praying about the vaccine before our Prophet said anything. I had reservations. Our Prophet said what he said and showed his example. And that answered my study part and I signed up to get vaccinated. But my prayers did not end, having made my choice I took it to the Lord, saying if this be right, great then it will happen. If it is not, then stop me. The Lord answered that prayer by stopping me. I do not present this as an answer for any one else on this issue. Personal revelation is just that, personal. It could be simply a timing issue that caused him to stop me, I do not know, am still working on figuring that out. But I get really tired of self righteous blowhards, who think to judge my faithfulness or willingness to obey the Lord and his Prophet because I am not doing what they think I should be doing.

It seems to me this is the same as the philosophical question that is answered by "Cogito, ergo sum" aka "I think therefore I am" We are alive because our senses tell us we are alive... If our senses deceive us (which they can) then we can be sure of nothing... except "Cogito, ergo sum" I am alive because my senses tell me I am alive, and I have no reason to doubt them at this point. And that is as far as we can take it as anything more then a pure thought experiment.

Everyone here can understand and empathize with things not going as expected and being harder then we assumed or otherwise thought they would be. Even Jesus Christ our example encountered this. The scriptures record him being 'sore amazed' in Gethsemane when he began atonement. Now there are many ways that we might understand 'sore amazed' but none of them are 'as expected' or 'easy.' We get further confirmation of this with his prayer to our Father in Heaven asking the cup (aka the pain of performing the Atonement) be taken from him. Empathy and understanding does not change that our response to such hardships. It needs to be to follow the example of Christ. " nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. " Sadly most of us need repeated hardships to learn this lesson, to learn to be like Christ. To often we show that our faith is very weak, instead of trusting God and his promises, we like to throw blame. 'If it was not for this situation, or if it was not for this persons actions' everything would be going according to God's plan. Which is a clear lack of faith that God is in control. Or if we are not blaming we complain about it not being 'Fair.' We look around comparing our situation to others, most of the time this puts us comparing our weakness to the image of strength someone else is projecting, which only leads to misery. Even if we avoid comparison the complaint of 'its not fair' shows a lack of faith in God's Justice and Mercy. If you fall in a pit... empathy and understanding is very nice... But pointing out the ladder you can use to climb out is much more charitable.