estradling75

The counter question: Do you think God wants us teaching his sons.. "the odds are against you making it?" either directly or through implication? The simple reality is that there have always been theological mysteries, because we lack Full Light and Knowledge. Joseph Smith came along with the Restoration with Greater Light and Knowledge, and resolved many theological mysteries that had existed for a very long time. But Greater Light is not Full Light so we should not be surprised that there are still theological mysteries. This is one of them.

This is some minor forum in a corner of the internet... on the subject of politics all we do is have trivial discussions about discussion A moral imperative... isn't a moral imperative if it is imposed by outside forces. And when you have government or other organizations using terms like 'mandatory' you are in a place of imposition not morality.

"Vaccines shouldn't be mandated" is the counter position that can't not exist, until someone else declares "Mandatory vaccination" You can't criticize the existence of one without criticizing one that caused it. And when both are subject to criticism, that the discussion. You can't have the discussion if only one side gets heard.

Men are children of God and therefore have great and unlimited potential for good. Women are children of God and therefore have great and unlimited potential for good. Men are fallen and therefore have great potential for evil. Women are fallen and therefore have great potential for evil. All four statements are 100% correct. Focusing on just one or just a few will mean we are not seeing the big picture.

I am addressing different subjects don't conflate them... The first one is the COVID vaccine... The second is the idea no one should ever shout "NAZI!" because it will hurt someone feelings

You say two things here and they are not the same. The protection of the individual, is the individuals choice, I only support getting good information to them. Then there is protection of Others from the actions of Individual. As a society we do have cases were an individuals rights are abridged and removed, for the safety of others (aka the whole legal system). But note that there is a whole process involved and a whole framework setup for this to happen it, it does not happen quickly. And if we want to add something new to protect others from we have or should have robust discussions on them becoming law, laws which can later be removed if we desire. We should be very leery of rights removal/abridgements done, in panic or emergency settings or being force through by fear.

There is a saying that "Those that do not learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat them" For the Holocaust we say "Never again" and rightly so... But to do that we have to "learn lessons" of History, we have to learn how in a country full of decent hardworking people could be a party to this happening, in their country, on their watch, and with their tacit approval. When we see the tactics the Nazi's used to gain power and kill millions, we need people to stand up and yell "NAZI" and hurt the feelings of the decent hardworking people so that they do not make the same mistakes.

It doesn't really work that way though. For example I am anti abortion pro death penalty... This is not hypocritical because the death row member made choices, and had due process. While this is not a perfect system, the judgement is not done by a single person but by a group of people (a court) organized to do exactly that, so there is at least an attempt to removed biases and emotions. Abortion is done on the judgement of one person who is usually in a very charged emotional state, with lots of unchecked biases. As for the COVID vaccine it does not do that. Current studies show that the vaccinated are not immune (Or even less likely) to getting infected, and they are not immune (or even less likely) to being contagious to others. Thus as a protection to others the COVID vaccine is showing to be a total failure. The vaccine does show that when the vaccinated person does (not if) get infected the symptoms are lessened for them. Thus the COVID vaccine only benefits the individual and I so I have problem with mandating for a public good that is not supported by the science.

I am not sure if you were venting or asking rhetorical question? But the answer is because this is not about safety or protection... its about power. In politics there is a saying "Never let a crisis go to waste." and they have not. For COVID there was some projections about how lethal (Which turned out to be wrong) it would be. Thus we had a crisis that they took (and are still taking) advantage of. If they can rile up their bases... if they can make people respond out of fear then they gain power... They simply can not make your Sister's behaviors on lack of meds a "Public Health Crisis" so we do not get any movement to forcible medicate her We can see this also happen with a mass shooting events. Politics can't rile people up on the subject of mental health which is really were we need to look for answers, but they can on the subject of "Gun Control" (Be afraid of Guns) thus we do not get real solutions to issues, just power grabs by people promising to 'fix' things.

Wrong its not the only relevant thing.. That is like sailors saying we do not need to pay attention to the lighthouse... because there are clearly no rocks were we are right now.

The difference between the two... is a little thing called Due Process. Being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. This annoying little rule of law some times means that murders walk free. But if you or anyone that thinks they have a solid legal proof of a individual guilty of Homicide by COVID.. you or they should absolutely run with it though the legal system.

That may be your intent.. But it is not how it has been communcated

I keep pointing out something God did do... You keep declaring 'God would never do that!!' But you never offer an alternative explanation of what God was really doing in the example I reference. Now I fully agree that God does not lie (Which was why the sales man link was and is horrible) But God does reveal line upon line which means he does not tell us everything, and he doesn't usually jump in and correct our bad assumptions/understandings. But rather he expects us to wrestle and work it so he can give us the next line. That is the opening we have... But it is not a wide open 'anything goes' opening... Because whatever comes next can't make what has come before a lie. The best/worse it can be is we did not understand.

Your clarification is accepted. I know you said you are stepping out and that is your right, but for all your words you didn't address the main issue. The scriptures say "endless punishment" which has pretty clear plain text meaning. The God says "endless punishment" does not mean "punishment without an end" as the plain text meaning says, but rather "Punishment God Decreed" I have no problem with the change... but that made the prior understandings people had about Hell that depended on the plain text meaning to be wrong. Also God continues saying that he knows, we misunderstand it and he is okay with it being misunderstood. Making it a 'mystery' fit to revealing to his prophets (when the time was right to do so naturally). This is what God has done, it is part of his character, and we need to be aware of it. However to characterize it as a "Used Car Salesman" God is a highly offensive characterization of God. I did not make it, I did not put it out there, and I abjectly refuse any attempt to connect it to me.

You can reject it all you want... But can you show that is it factually wrong?... That God didn't say that eternal and endless actually mean something different.. You can disagree with me all you want... But to insult my character, and me as a person, is unacceptable

Which is why I said I do not see how. Which is why I said it has to be an addition of Light and Truth not a subtraction. But we also have to acknowledge that God has altered the way we understand certain words before (See endless and eternal as relating to punishment). And if he has altered the way we understand terms at the definitional level before then he can do so again. And if our confidence is based on "because that is what the words mean," then we should be aware that our foundation just might not be as solid as we hope.

Right now our definition of Exalted.. is Husband and Wife having eternal increase aka kids(Like god does), couple that with gender being an eternal characteristic, leaves no logical room for Same Sex couples. Because they literally can't do the job. But we also know that there is a whole lot we do not know about the Kingdom of God. Odds are what has been revealed about Exaltation is but a glimpse of the whole thing. Would seeing a bigger picture expand our minds and understanding... clearly... would it open the door for Same Sex couples? I have no idea. But for me that is what it would take, an explanation of how it would work to Exalt a Same Sex Couple.

So... you are bored It was a comparison... Knowing the Mind of God vs Knowing the Mind of a Poster. What is speculation (which I am totally guilty of) most likely to reveal something of? The Mind of the Poster. In fact it is very unlikely that this thread will reveal anything new about the mind of God to most posters here...

God will do what God will do... But what we think God will do... Is by its very nature about us, how we think, how we feel, what we think is important. Thus we end up shining the light on ourselves

The government does not hold the keys to authorizing Polygamy. As such Jacob's instructions on the subject would remain in force for the Faithful. Now if you are asking if God would authorize his key holders to turn that key... That is speculation that tell more about the person speculating then it does anything else.

That is why I compared it to the Heaven/Hell and Three Degrees of Glory... There were and are a lot of false things accepted about Heaven and Hell that are not correct and had to be discarded. That is why we need to learn to 'Hear Him' for ourselves... so that when someone claims to have a revelation from God... either we will hear a very familiar voice and it will make sense, or we will not, and it will not.

True... but our intentions also matter... Here is an example... Someone gets cut open... has their ribs cracked and separated... and then their internal plumbing rearranged. Did I just describe the next serial killer that @mirkwood will post a Halloween picture of?... Or did I just describe my neighbors triple bypass? And 60 years from now will our triple bypass operations, seem as crude and horrific as attaching electrodes to someones genitals are to us now?

True... but there is a huge gulf between... Trying to help some one.. and doing what believed to be the right thing... and getting it wrong.. And 'I am going to do something life threateningly stupid'... because it is popular.

And if you do not understand how the church is not the gospel Jesus Christ.. but a modern framework delivery of the gospel then you will always have issues. When you can stop conflating the Church with the Gospel then things get a lot clearer.. PS... NOPE

That would depend on how much of the Proclamation of the Family and our understanding of what God is and why he does what he is doing.. we throw out. If we throw out light and truth it has to be a step backwards... To expand and advance... it would have to be that is all still true... here is more to help you make sense of it.... Like how the doctrine of Heaven and Hell still exist and work... and the Three Degrees of Glory add to it and clarify it. Is this possible with Homosexuality? Maybe.. I can't see it.. But that would be expected both if it is not true, or if God has not reveled it yet.