estradling75

My thoughts on the question of why God creates someone that will not make it.... is really simple. Even a little bit of progress is better then no progress. Lets walk through this... God sees a pre-existent Intelligence and knows what it is capable of... And does what he does to advance it to being one of his spirit children. The focal point of my thought is that the selected Intelligence is much better off with the advancement even if it goes no further. Then there is the physical body, we are better off with a physical body then with out one. Then there is the resurrection and degrees of glory. Each type is better then mortality, but some are better then others. Thus each step along the way is a benefit and gain for us but we only go as far as we are willing to go. With this idea then even Lucifer being lifted to a Spirit Child is a positive and net gain for him even if he does not go any farther. Now we do have the things like 'endless suffering' and 'eternal damnation' to deal with... But I have to ask... compared to what? What an exalted person has... Sure... But maybe not when compared to a pre-existent Intelligence

Did you notice my use of the word "Mandate"? Because if you did then your twisting of what is a clear disagreement with Civil Authorities, into Church Authorities is fundamentally dishonest... It is not my job to steady the Ark of God (aka the Church)... It is my job to hold my elected government authorities accountable... and I can fulfill both objectives at the same time.

Indeed... yet we in the very thread we have had people accuse those not vaccinated as being murders spreading COVID... And other places they are being accused of being Anti-science along with being murders. And for the record I am fully vaccinated precisely because I wanted to help those more vulnerable, and I want the data to show that I made an effective choice... The data is not there. I helped myself (Which I really didn't need) as the risk of unknown future side effect if any. I don't consider that a good exchange at this point.

For a very limited definition of effective. It protects the person from "when" not "if" they are infected... that is a plus. But all the reasons for mandating the vaccine personal protection isn't one of them. We are told to get vaccinated to protect other people. By those metrics it appears to be wholly ineffective. The vaccinated still become infected, and are still contagious... If want to protect grams and gramps from you accidentally bring COVID to them... you better not be depending on the vaccine and being Fully Vaccinated

It is also something life long members can have difficultly understanding. Those who have received the Gift of the Holy Ghost at age 8 and have been diligently trying to keep the commandments all there lives, will have a strong tendency to view the blessing they are getting as 'Normal.' And if it is normal then it is just like everyone else. It took me hearing testimonies of those that had fallen away for a time before coming back, and their descriptions of how things felt, before, during, and after, to help me have a greater appreciation of that which has been so easy for me to take for granted.

Case in point: Lack of effort nuff said

Since you started this thread to get answers to your questions... that puts the burden on you... Since you do not want to put in the work why should I bother?

Your post demonstrate repeatably that you do not.

I see no reason to continue talking to you... until you start showing sign you can understand what I wrote... rather then use it as a pretext to flog your hobby horse.

I do not care if you subscribe to it or not... The scriptures use the term Happiness. And it would really help if you read what I wrote. Living the Gospel truths brings happiness... Not being a church member. They are not the same thing. A Non church member Living the Gospel truths will be happy, as happy as a church member living it the same amount. The Point of the Church is "More Gospel truths" which you can not get anywhere else. Living more Gospel Truths (not just knowing) brings More Happiness. Thus the church offers an increased in happiness, if you live the Gospel Truths it teaches. But note the conditional, just being a member is not enough.

This topic reminds me of a complaint I hear from some long time church members, who had lived as faithfully as they could. Then they meet a new convert who lived a very worldly life and converted later in life. Like the 'Good' son of the Prodigal son or the 1st hour labors complain about things being unfair. Thing is I really never hear the new convert say... I am so glad I was unconverted for so long, nor do we hear the Prodigal Son praise how wise and how glad he was that he rebelled and went of to party. They usually have some level of regret for past actions when they come/return to the light. The Book of Mormon talks about living after the manor of happiness, aka living the gospel. And the scriptures also say that "Wickedness, Never was happiness" Thus per the scripture the closer we live to gospel truths the happier we will be. (Which is not the same as saying trial free) Please also note I said Living Gospel Truths.. Thus someone outside the church could be happily living a lot of truth. But if we truly believe we have the restored gospel and restored church, then that means we have maximum available Gospel Truths, and therefore maximum possible happiness, but people have to live it, not just claim membership.

Totally agree but I would add D. The number of worthy men does not outnumber the number of worthy women.. Namely because we have no tools to handle that situation. The corollary to this idea that the more polygamy is practiced in Heaven... the more brutal the implication toward men. The mortal birthrates have largely been 50/50 which imply that in the pre-earth life we were near 50/50 as well. If exaltation has a 2 women (or more)for every man deal. That would mean that men are 50% (or worse) less likely to make it then women, and that is a very brutal assessment. So for me I am counting on a really close to equal numbers of men and women. With polygamy picking up slack.

The counter question: Do you think God wants us teaching his sons.. "the odds are against you making it?" either directly or through implication? The simple reality is that there have always been theological mysteries, because we lack Full Light and Knowledge. Joseph Smith came along with the Restoration with Greater Light and Knowledge, and resolved many theological mysteries that had existed for a very long time. But Greater Light is not Full Light so we should not be surprised that there are still theological mysteries. This is one of them.

This is some minor forum in a corner of the internet... on the subject of politics all we do is have trivial discussions about discussion A moral imperative... isn't a moral imperative if it is imposed by outside forces. And when you have government or other organizations using terms like 'mandatory' you are in a place of imposition not morality.

"Vaccines shouldn't be mandated" is the counter position that can't not exist, until someone else declares "Mandatory vaccination" You can't criticize the existence of one without criticizing one that caused it. And when both are subject to criticism, that the discussion. You can't have the discussion if only one side gets heard.

Men are children of God and therefore have great and unlimited potential for good. Women are children of God and therefore have great and unlimited potential for good. Men are fallen and therefore have great potential for evil. Women are fallen and therefore have great potential for evil. All four statements are 100% correct. Focusing on just one or just a few will mean we are not seeing the big picture.

I am addressing different subjects don't conflate them... The first one is the COVID vaccine... The second is the idea no one should ever shout "NAZI!" because it will hurt someone feelings

You say two things here and they are not the same. The protection of the individual, is the individuals choice, I only support getting good information to them. Then there is protection of Others from the actions of Individual. As a society we do have cases were an individuals rights are abridged and removed, for the safety of others (aka the whole legal system). But note that there is a whole process involved and a whole framework setup for this to happen it, it does not happen quickly. And if we want to add something new to protect others from we have or should have robust discussions on them becoming law, laws which can later be removed if we desire. We should be very leery of rights removal/abridgements done, in panic or emergency settings or being force through by fear.

There is a saying that "Those that do not learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat them" For the Holocaust we say "Never again" and rightly so... But to do that we have to "learn lessons" of History, we have to learn how in a country full of decent hardworking people could be a party to this happening, in their country, on their watch, and with their tacit approval. When we see the tactics the Nazi's used to gain power and kill millions, we need people to stand up and yell "NAZI" and hurt the feelings of the decent hardworking people so that they do not make the same mistakes.

It doesn't really work that way though. For example I am anti abortion pro death penalty... This is not hypocritical because the death row member made choices, and had due process. While this is not a perfect system, the judgement is not done by a single person but by a group of people (a court) organized to do exactly that, so there is at least an attempt to removed biases and emotions. Abortion is done on the judgement of one person who is usually in a very charged emotional state, with lots of unchecked biases. As for the COVID vaccine it does not do that. Current studies show that the vaccinated are not immune (Or even less likely) to getting infected, and they are not immune (or even less likely) to being contagious to others. Thus as a protection to others the COVID vaccine is showing to be a total failure. The vaccine does show that when the vaccinated person does (not if) get infected the symptoms are lessened for them. Thus the COVID vaccine only benefits the individual and I so I have problem with mandating for a public good that is not supported by the science.

I am not sure if you were venting or asking rhetorical question? But the answer is because this is not about safety or protection... its about power. In politics there is a saying "Never let a crisis go to waste." and they have not. For COVID there was some projections about how lethal (Which turned out to be wrong) it would be. Thus we had a crisis that they took (and are still taking) advantage of. If they can rile up their bases... if they can make people respond out of fear then they gain power... They simply can not make your Sister's behaviors on lack of meds a "Public Health Crisis" so we do not get any movement to forcible medicate her We can see this also happen with a mass shooting events. Politics can't rile people up on the subject of mental health which is really were we need to look for answers, but they can on the subject of "Gun Control" (Be afraid of Guns) thus we do not get real solutions to issues, just power grabs by people promising to 'fix' things.

Wrong its not the only relevant thing.. That is like sailors saying we do not need to pay attention to the lighthouse... because there are clearly no rocks were we are right now.

The difference between the two... is a little thing called Due Process. Being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. This annoying little rule of law some times means that murders walk free. But if you or anyone that thinks they have a solid legal proof of a individual guilty of Homicide by COVID.. you or they should absolutely run with it though the legal system.

That may be your intent.. But it is not how it has been communcated

I keep pointing out something God did do... You keep declaring 'God would never do that!!' But you never offer an alternative explanation of what God was really doing in the example I reference. Now I fully agree that God does not lie (Which was why the sales man link was and is horrible) But God does reveal line upon line which means he does not tell us everything, and he doesn't usually jump in and correct our bad assumptions/understandings. But rather he expects us to wrestle and work it so he can give us the next line. That is the opening we have... But it is not a wide open 'anything goes' opening... Because whatever comes next can't make what has come before a lie. The best/worse it can be is we did not understand.