Spartan117

If Christianity is true, and the Bible is scripture, the only church that could possibly be true is the LDS Church. There is no other church on the earth today that conforms to biblical accounts and teachings than Mormonism. The LDS Church resembles the church that Christ established during His mortal ministry more than any other church as well. When a leader of a church claims the mantle of prophet, there are conditions that have to be met. Failed prophecies get you voted off the island. When the prophecies are fulfilled, though, you get some legitimacy. There are hundreds of articles about this on FAIR that are helpful in understanding the nature of prophets and prophecies. Most definitely. Your question deals much more with philosophy than theology. The allegory of the cave would be better suited for discussion about perception and reality than specific instances found in religion.

My friend put in for a bunch of tickets and won the raffle. He got tickets last year too. I was more than happy to take one of the tickets off his hands for him.

What games do you guys play?

We are glad to have you here

Welcome to the forum

I got tickets and saw it live. It was amazing, the perfect way to wrap up a Sunday. MoTab was also amazing, as usual.

You don't believe in Slimer either??

My first time doing baptisms I stood proxy for my Father and Grandfather too. My first time doing a session after receiving my endowment was for my Dad and the time after that was my Grandfather. I can really say that I know how you feel, and it truly is wonderful. I'm happy for you. :)

No Slimer?

almost 2 years old. Well done. There is another thread about Lilith that is much more recent and has more information. http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/42711-adam-had-more-than-one-wife.html

Who better to watch over your doors?

Lilith is not taught, mentioned, or talked about anywhere on lds.org. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Search - Lilith That includes the standard works, lesson manuals, study helps, General Conference sessions, and church magazines. There is no reference to Lilith anywhere. How you came up with an association between Lilith and Mormonism is baffling. There is a thread about Lilith here on the forum, though ... http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/42711-adam-had-more-than-one-wife.html We need to address a few things in your post before talking about this 'Lilith' character. The misinformation you have about the church ranges from "inaccurate" to "incoherent" and is dripping with condescension that is completely unwarranted. Your post is impressively wrong. So wrong that you should win a prize. I'm not trying to mean but you need to get your facts straight! :) The KJV Bible that is published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not "inter-mingled" with the Book of Mormon in any fashion. They are companions to each other, 2 separate testaments of Jesus Christ. But they are not mixed together. Christ is mentioned 1,009 times in the standard works of the church and an additional 868 times in the study helps for a combined 1877 references. So if you're having trouble finding references to the Savior in the standard works then the problem is on your end. The idea of multiple heavens is not unique to Mormonism. Not at all. There are early Jewish writings that mention 3 heavens and 5 heavens, Islam has teachings about 3 heavens, early gnostic texts and the Nag Hammadi library has numerous references to multiple heavens and there are apocrypha works (like the Apocalypse of James) that mention 3 heavens. So there is no need for you to apologize. I'm assuming you meant the 'Mormon Church' and not the 'Morman Church'. I can not find any mention of her in any church publication or historical record. There is no "BINGO" to be had anywhere. She is not a part of our Bible. The word "Lilith" does not appear in any church publication, period. May I suggest that you hold off on your Lilith research and take advantage of all the information about Mormons here on the forum? There isn't much concerning Lilith here anyway. Your time here on the forum is a great opportunity to learn about the LDS Church. The community here will answer any questions you might have. Either way, I hope you find what you're looking for. Welcome to the forum.

My wife had Millet as her Book of Mormon professor. I think she told me that Millet and an Evangelical counterpart used to have public "conversations" that you could attend.

Welcome to the forum

Sad but true. There is no "fair" about it. I prefer to attack how the person is attacking, not necessarily what they're defending. If someone is using faulty logic or a double standard, then I want to expose that. Once those walls start coming down then there is a chance that we might find some common ground and actually further the conversation instead of yelling at each other. It is always almost the case that the other person has a misconception about Mormonism. It's an entirely different "debate" when one person is a member of a restoration church and the other is Catholic, then if you have a Protestant and Catholic because the subject matter is vastly different. If I'm having a discussion with an Evangelical, I don't have to "overwhelmingly" disprove a thing. I have additional scripture that they don't have. It clarifies all the mucky issues like "interpretation" for me. If I was a Catholic then the playing field is more even but it would be much harder to get anywhere. It's the same arguments over and over which is why they started having councils and coming up with creeds.

The purpose of your patriarchal blessing is to determine your lineage. Anything more than that is a bonus. My wife's patriarchal blessing is about 3/4 of a page long. Her old roommate's patriarchal blessing is 8 pages long. Each blessing is different. Try to remember as much as you can, you probably won't remember a lot of it, though. I'm excited for you, my patriarchal blessing is very special to me. It's personal scripture just for you.

The problem that we usually run into is the 'burden of proof' that gets set for the BoM (and the church) is one that the Bible itself can not meet. Humor me for a minute, PC ... One of the most popular arguments against the church is that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. The 'false prophecy' that is cited quite often from the detractors is the Independence Temple prophecy. Doctrine and Covenants 84 That prophecy was given in September 1832. The Saints were expelled from Jackson County in late 1833, before they could make any progress on the temple. Despite their best efforts, they were unable to return to reclaim their lands. After they settled in Nauvoo, Joseph recorded another revelation in January 1841, rescinding the earlier commandment to build the Independence temple ... Doctrine and Covenants 124 If the revelation is meant as a prophecy, the timeline for its fulfillment depends on what Joseph meant by "generation." Typically we consider this to mean the lifespan of those living at the time of the revelation. However, in scriptural language "generation" can indicate a longer period of time. During his ministry in Jerusalem, Jesus revealed the signs of his second coming, and prophesied that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" -Matt 24:34 All those who heard his prophecy died nearly 2,000 years ago, so evidently Jesus meant "generation" to mean "age" or some other long period of time. It's possible that Joseph meant the same thing in his revelation about the Independence temple, and therefore the time period for its fulfillment is still open. Note the double standard of interpretation used against Joseph Smith, for Jesus Christ used the very same terminology. Let's look at what Jesus himself said to the people of his day concerning prophecies of His second coming. Matthew 24:34 quotes Christ as saying, "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Luke 21:32 repeats this prophecy. What are "all these things," and have they come to pass? Many shall come in Christ's name, deceiving many (Matthew 24:5, Luke 21:8) Wars and rumours of wars (Matthew 24:6, Luke 21:9-10) Famines (Matthew 24:7, Luke 21:11) Pestilences (Mathew 24:7, Luke 21:11) Earthquakes (Matthew 24:7, Luke 21:11) Apostles killed (Matthew 24:9, Luke 21:16) Many shall be offended (Matthew 24:10) Many shall be betrayed (Matthew 24:10) Men will hate one another (Matthew 24:10) False prophets will deceive many (Matthew 24:11) Iniquity shall abound (Matthew 24:12) Love of many shall wax cold (Matthew 24:12) Gospel shall be preached in all the world (Matthew 24:14) Distress of nations (Luke 21:25) Men's hearts will fail them because of fear (Luke 21:11) Sun shall be darkened (Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25) Moon shall not give her light (Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25) Stars shall fall from heaven (Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25) Sign of the Son of man shall appear (Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:27)Some of "these things" occurred during Christ's time period. Some have continued since then. Some have escalated into our time. Some have not occurred yet. So we must ask, since Joseph Smith is charged with false prophecy concerning "this generation," did Jesus Christ utter a false prophecy? According to the critics' rules of interpretation, he did, because "this generation" passed away without "all these things" being fulfilled. So, if Joseph Smith uttered a false prophecy about "this generation" so did Christ. I have never read anything from anyone who is a critic of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that attacks Jesus Christ, or the Bible, for making a prophecy of "this generation" which has not yet occurred. Yet it has been many centuries longer from the time of Christ until now, than it has been from the 1830's till today. D&C 84 does not say the "people now living," it says "this generation." The word "generation" has different meanings. According to scripture, the word "generation" can have reference to a time frame, a people, or even a dispensation. Without specific wording which would indicate exactly what the word "generation" means, you can't accuse Joseph Smith of a false prophecy, while accepting Christ's prophecy when both use it in a general form. I definitely took a lot of liberty with what you said to tie it into this, I apologize for that. But you talk about the burden of proof placed on the BoM, and in most instances the Bible can't make it's case under the conditions set for the BoM. Neither can any "true Christian" church validate their legitimacy under the conditions that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has to. That's not the only stumbling block for traditionalists. The idea that there are Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ walking around right now is usually met with serious skepticism. You start telling people that there is a living breathing Prophet on the earth and people lose their minds. The Biblical account of Prophets and Apostles is one thing, but the idea that God wants to communicate with people in modern times is blasphemy.

The welcome wagon did seem to pass by your intro thread ... So Welcome!! Here's a dancing banana

I don't have a source handy but it's something like 40% of all crimes are alcohol related incidents.

Welcome :) In the "Introduce Yourself" section, there is a little blue button in the upper left corner underneath the bar that says FORUMS | PERSONAL BELIEFS | etc ... Click that button and post away.

That makes sense for Mormons, but I think Sister was asking why the 'justification by grace alone' crowd would bother doing any sort of good works (even going to church on Sunday) if there was no consequence to it, good or bad.

EDIT: gopecon beat me to it.

This Is Why I'm Broke Google sneakers, Flying Radio Control Shark, Airsoft Mini Gun, Space Invaders Couch, and (no joke) a $350,000 Flying Car. They even have the Tron Motorcycle.

Bailout?