Spartan117

Maybe Santa will bring the MGF a dedicated server for Christmas

There is the spirit world, and there are degrees of glory. Upon death, we go to the spirit world to await the resurrection. The spirits there are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated into spirit paradise and spirit prison, but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison. Doctrine and Covenant section 138 details the spirit world. "Degrees of Glory" are differing kingdoms in heaven. At the final judgment, each person will be assigned to an eternal dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory, except those who are sons of Perdition. There are 3 degrees of glory, and there is outer darkness. Telestial Kingdom - These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. Terrestrial Kingdom - These are they who rejected the gospel on earth but afterward received it in the spirit world. These are the honorable people on the earth who were blinded to the gospel of Jesus Christ by the craftiness of men. These are also they who received the gospel and a testimony of Jesus but then were not valiant. They will be visited by Jesus Christ but not by our Heavenly Father. Celestial Kingdom - They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized, … that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit. These are they who overcome the world by their faith. They are just and true so that the Holy Ghost can seal their blessings upon them. Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever. Outer Darkness - These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. They are the sons of Perdition. Doctrine and Covenants section 76 details the degrees of glory.

Isn't most of the material published by the church written by general authorities, like the Sunday School manuals? I had thought the church only published things like lesson manuals anyway? Is The Ensign published by the church?

True, but at the end of the Millennium after satan is loosed, there will be people living with Christ during His millennial reign who will reject Him. D&C 101:32 says "when the Lord shall come, He shall reveal all things" and people will still choose to reject Him. They will be living in His presence and have all things revealed and still choose to rebel. Even in the preexistence The Savior and the plan of salvation was rejected. The anti-Mormon community is filled with people who have been to the temple and made covenants but ultimately rejected The Savior in this life. I have to think that if there are some who will openly rebel in the presence of Deity, there will be some who will rebel after their mortal probation?

Why do you think they will automatically accept baptism?

I don't know about advice for this particular situation ... but I will happily leave you as many kind words as you want. Sounds like you've earned some kind words. I don't know how I would react in those circumstances but I'm fairly certain it would make the newspaper the next day. You're a much better man than I.

What about the creeds from the Ecumenical Councils?

Absolutely. I'm curious though, the Book of Mormon is the "keystone of our religion" as stated by Joseph Smith in the Introduction to the Book of Mormon ... BoM Introduction So without the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith also said ... Joseph Smith Quotes There is a domino effect here, if the Book of Mormon is not scripture, then Joseph Smith was not a prophet, then none of Joseph's successors were prophets, then the church is not only false, but a fabrication and an ongoing hoax. I am certainly not trying to discourage you from going back to your old ward, I'm just trying to figure out why you would want to? If there's no truth to it for you? You are definitely welcome there regardless, in fact I'm reminded of an article I read about tolerance towards people of other faiths at church ... FAIR: Tolerance So of course you're welcome whether you "still believe" or not, I am just genuinely curious as to why you would want to. I know several people who are less active but have no belief whatsoever in the church anymore, but they still go from time to time. I also know people who are not members but go to their local ward almost every Sunday anyway. One of my friends is very very Protestant, but goes to an LDS ward on Sundays. He takes his kids too, he loves the primary program. Doesn't believe a single thing about the church. Now I'm not saying that you fall into any of these categories, but I see this a lot and can't wrap my head around it. I'm not being difficult with you, not trying to argue or debate anything, I'd like to hear your point of view is all. Sorry for rambling and thank you :)

I believe that is what you call a "calling election made sure."

That was not my intention. I've actually thought a lot about this over the last few days. I don't know if you read my post from way early on in this thread or not. But in it, I talk about my friend and his son, and how earlier this year his son legally became his daughter. I've met a few people who were transgender, but I've never actually known someone who was until my friend and his daughter. I was talking with a mutual friend, he told me that our friends son was now officially his daughter. She started hormone therapy at the end of last year, and earlier this year, she did whatever the government required to be legally identified as female, and changed her name. When I first heard about her transition, I was mighty surprised. Then I didn't care. I don't mean that in a heartless, thoughtless way, I mean that this is obviously who she is and what makes her happy. So good for her. I found out that she had started a blog right before she started hormone therapy. She was diligent in updating it too, up until her name change. I read the whole thing. I read about her first time going out in girl mode, all the times she didn't pass and the cruelty that usually went along with that, even her first time shaving her legs. In the end I didn't have any better of an understanding about what transgender is, but I know that this girl knew beyond anything that she had ever known that this is what would make her happy. This wasn't some "phase" she was going through, this was who she was. And she went through hell to realize that. And that's just the last year that I read about in a blog, I can't imagine the years leading up her transition. So I've thought about this a lot over the last few days. Ever since you kicked in the door and accused everyone of saying transgender was a mental disorder. And that transgender people were unworthy of Heavenly Fathers love, and lots of other things that I'm fairly certain were never said but you were sure offended by. I thought you were being over-dramatic so I responded by being overly sarcastic. Whatever the case was, you were clearly upset. And I should have been sympathetic to that when I responded to you and I wasn't. I apologize. I forget that this can be a really sensitive subject for some people and I should be respectful of that.

I'm assuming that the "communion" you are speaking of is the Catholic communion? (or taking the sacrament for LDS) If so, how can the covenant be "renewed" and not be "restarted" as well? What would be the difference between them?

I recently got my line of authority. My friend who ordained me to both Priesthoods never got his line of authority, so when I got mine I forwarded him a copy. I have a few questions though .... Is my line of authority something that is supposed to be kept personal, like a patriarchal blessing? When I saw my line of authority for the first time I was surprised to see the names of early church leaders (both the primitive church, and the restoration) on there. I hadn't really thought about it before I got my lineage. It was neat to see all these names, but I'm guessing that it's pretty common, right? Having a few modern day prophets and apostles in your lineage? I'm not trying to brag or boast, I wouldn't have anything to boast about anyway. Just curious, is that okay? Is there ever a time where I'll have to give a copy to someone? Like if I were to ordain a new convert, would he get a copy? Would I have to give a copy to whoever was presiding over the ordnance? Many thanks to everyone for their time.

I wouldn't worry. The missionaries will usually leave a message when they call, but the missed calls may have been them. You can always try the numbers back and see who answers :) I would personally wait a few days before filling out the contact form again, but filling it out again wouldn't hurt anything. You can also plug in your address into LDS Maps and it will tell you where the closest ward is, what time services start, and who the Bishop of that ward is. If you haven't heard from the missionaries by this Sunday, just show up at the ward. Stop the first person you see and tell them you're investigating the church and this is your first time visiting the ward. Ask them to find the missionaries for you.

Congratulations!! There have been times when I've been on my knees praying and felt very strongly that there was someone on the other side of the veil kneeling next to me, praying with me. Elder Holland gave a talk at BYU called "For Times of Trouble" which has given me hope in some of my darkest hours. Your question makes me think of his closing remarks ... I received my endowment this past May at Salt Lake. I had my interview with my Bishop, and then he just with me about what it means to go to the temple. He told me that there are some things that can not be "in the world" and that when we are in the temple, we are very literally out of the world. The world has no business inside the temple. That's what I remember most about my first time through. I remember sitting there and really feeling that I was away from everyday life. There's no noises to distract you, no cars driving by, no one yelling, just peaceful quiet. Perfect for hearing a still, small voice.

I have. Who said that? If Heavenly Father made you the way you are, why do you need hormone therapy and surgery to be that person? People with mental disorders are more prone to suicide. That's because depression and schizophrenia aren't made into a lifestyle and a culture. They also don't have schizophrenic pride parades. It is telling though, that you're obviously upset with the idea that transgender gets the "mental disorder" label, yet when making an analogy to prove your point, you chose to compare transgendered with depression and schizophrenia. You're clearly hurt in all this, and you want your opinion to be heard. I am sincerely sorry that you are not able to be baptized right now. But your beliefs about the nature of being "transgendered" is what is out of place. I don't recall anyone saying that transgender is a mental disorder. I thought everyone was pretty foggy on what exactly defines transgender. You identify yourself as transgender, you are not in the group as someone who is schizophrenic. You are getting offended over things that you said and blaming other people for that offense. Even though that sounds schizophrenic, no one has made that comparison but you. I am at a complete loss as to why you quoted that verse from Matthew.

Your friend in the conversation you linked to doesn't seem to have a lot of depth in his understanding of what he believes. He knows enough for him, and that's just fine. In your conversation with him, though, you set him up to lose. He took the bait too. You asked him questions that faith doesn't have answers too. You set standards that can't be met in a debate about religious beliefs. Applying a logic primer to something like spiritual confirmations is like challenging someone to explain the artistic concept of a painting by giving it's dimensions instead of describing what the picture is. You win the challenge and the other guy looks an idiot. And you did that in the conversion over, and over, and over, and by the end you were just being a bully. You certainly won the challenge, though. And he struggled quite a bit. But in the end you didn't prove anything. You played fallacy musical chairs with someone who didn't know any better. Then you came to an LDS forum and showcased it like a trophy. Someone needs attention ... Another thing that I noticed was you criticized his understanding about Joseph Smith, you imply his view was limited to only what the church teaches. You said that "it makes it seem like he was a really good person. It's just an illusion though." You also tell him that this is not his fault, that he falls "under the very large group who don't know Joseph was a con." This is obviously not an original idea. I have a pretty good idea where you got it from, though. When I was an investigator I did as much research into Mormonism as I could. I scoured the anti-sites for 6 solid months. I watched the ridiculous mocumentary on the Book of Abraham, read the stuff that the church put out, spent a lot of time on FAIR and FARMS, I watched the god makers, I watched sessions of General Conference, and I watched conferences from the Exmormon Foundation. In the end, I looked high and low and every place in between trying to find out if there really was a man behind the curtain, or if Mormons really were the real deal. I came to 2 conclusions ... 1: If Christianity is real, then the LDS Church HAS to be the true church just as they claim. No other denomination of Christianity that I studied resembled the Christianity written about in the Bible. Some beliefs taught by mainstream Christianity are down right absurd. 2: Instead of a man behind the curtain, all I found in exmormondom were bitter, hateful, very hurt people who really, really, need a hug. Lots of jaded folks who all identified with each other through their "being offended" stories. When I went riding through exmormondom, I wasn't impressed. Everyone who has an ax to grind also has the real story about the church. With no regard for any bias that person might have, their version of things becomes the true story that Mormons don't want you to know. Credibility is of no concern. The website is operated out of peoples basements, who are they going to answer to? Recycle the same few arguments over and over and hope no one notices, label the apologetics as biased and discount everything they say (even if it is work from a tenured professor that is peer reviewed) and you have yourself a house of cards. I looked over your "Why I Left" letter. It all seems awfully familiar. Maybe there was a little ctrl-v in "your" letter? I had high hopes for you at first too. The least I can do is answer your question ... What are you not understanding? That editing and piecing together other peoples ideas does not make them yours. You're a hack who can't think for himself. Your cut and paste style of reasoning may work on Facebook, but those of us that know better are embarrassed for you.

If you don't mind me asking, when you left the church did you join a new church? What (if anything) do you believe? I know that isn't what you asked, I'm just trying to get an understanding of where you're at right now.

I am fascinated with the step-by-step process of the restoration. The keys, the offices, the ordinances, they all came line upon line. I wonder what it was like to have gone through that process. What did Joseph, or any of the early saints think when things like the endowment were restored? What was it like to hear first hand from Joseph what the 3 degrees of glory were like? "Guess what? Heaven and hell are not the end, there are 3 Kingdoms that everyone will earn spots in!" What went through people's minds when the order came down to start building temples? These are things I'm super interested in.

I don't think it's the spouses "fault" in the way you're thinking. When you get to the point where your spouse is having an affair, there have already been some really big mistakes made. There are all kinds of things that BOTH spouses could have done way before an affair happens. You don't forget to take the trash out one night and wake up the next day to your spouse cheating on you. That being said, the responsibility is always 100% on the shoulders of the person who makes the actual choice to cheat. You get to own that all by yourself. IF the relationship is going to be salvaged, then you're going to have to take a real look at what lead up to this. There IS going to be something that each spouse could/should have done/not done. Both will have to admit their faults. One will just have a lot more fault they have claim.

I would love to be your PR rep. I'd get you the Mormon vote. The Catholic vote, on the other hand, may be a problem ...

You are absolutely correct, I believe that is the context he is speaking of. If I have misunderstood then I apologize, and by all means disregard my response. I am under the impression that Maygrace is talking about rejecting Christ in the most severe sense.

You are not living a good and moral life if you openly reject Christ, in the sense you are talking about. Denying that Jesus is the Christ (under the right conditions) is a sin that can never be forgiven.

I remember my very first fast Sunday as a new convert. I sat there in sacrament meeting watching all the 2 year olds eating goldfish while I was going hungry. That's not right.

I mentioned PC in a discussion during Sunday School last week. Just like on here, we somehow got talking about the Trinity. I referred to him as my "Protestant friend."

My alarm clock was telling me one thing and my Blackberry was telling me something else. My alarm clock was like "Hey, get up. I'm being loud and obnoxious for a reason." And my BlackBerry was like "Nah man, just go back to sleep ... Oh that clock over there? He's just mad he runs on 9 volt batteries. I got you, go get some Zzzz." And I went back to bed. I love mornings where stuff in my room talks to me.