rosie321

Agreed. She came to let go of it. Instead of finding support and direction she was victimized all over. Kind of like a rape victim through the judicial system and being blamed it was all their fault. If they didn't do this or hadn't done that it wouldn't have happened. The fact is that it did it was upsetting and a crime did occur. No need to attack all over again. This discussion put an image into my mind. Imagine the story of the good samaritan. What would have happened if he started kicking the man while he was down rather than bandaging him up and taking him to recieve care? Maybe he shouldn't have been on the road. Maybe he should have been prepared. Now he needs help. Not condemnation.

The mods have to work it out. I agree things defineately got out of hand and it is good to see a stop to the personal attacks. It's unfortunate his was the last post remaining. While they may have been meant as Snow's way of making a point it was still extreme and hurtful. Hopefully he will never serve on any crisis management teams :) Then again maybe thats why they are needed :) I can't fully comprehend what he was hoping to accomplish . Even if he was right he made her a "victim" all over again and prooved her point of how ridiculous people can act when you question the status quo

Its heartbreaking to think of the hurt that was caused to you and what you were going through at the time and that someone couldn't have been there for you.

The polite LDS way of saying get over it. Get in step. That is the heart of the matter here. LDS who question authority are made to feel that they have defied God. This whole area can be an issue for converts or those who have experienced an abuse of priesthood power. Which is obvious in this case For your own sake you need to forgive him. There is an obligation to forgive all men. On the cross Christ even forgave those who crucified Him saying "Father forgive them they know not what they do" To a degree I think you have moved on and it is not continually on the forefront. You see both sides now and can take it more in context. But for your own sake you need to be open to forgiveness despite the trauma that was caused or the fact that an apology was never issued. Is it possible? Wouldn't you rather a healing that would help you "remember the pains no more?" This experience you have had could be used to assist others in a loving and forgiving heart. Your statements here concern me a lot. I truly don't think it will benefit you in the long run. Use this situation for yours and others good. Don't let it become a destructive force. Stating here that you won't forgive seems self destructive in the long run. As was pointed out in another post the priesthood holder should probably not have said anything. He was stepping out of place. But do you really think he did it out of maliciousness? Your mom came to him and asked him to speak to you. He probably wanted to help (let a little pride in) and asserted an option that works well for many others. You knew differently inside and felt that same different feeling inside afterward. Yes he did come on strongly but you knew inside what was right for you despite that. Don't let anger over this mans attempts destroy you by a stated unwillingness to forgive. There is much better in store for you than that. As far as forgiving him, I'm not sure I do. I don't think about it often, and it hasn't had any effect on my life since those few months, other than helping me wake up and see that things weren't always what I thought they were, and I see that as a good thing. But I don't feel I'm under any obligation to forgive him, and frankly, when I think back on it, I don't.

I agree. But for some the very acknowledgement that it is a possibility seems impossible. It must be a misunderstanding or you were doing something wrong. Those who have experienced similar things need to be aware of its possibility so they don't feel like they are automatically wrong or apostate. If they start believing it inside then it can become reality. Instead they should then take what is being said to the Lord and seek clarification and strength to choose the right (even if it might mean going against the priesthood view). Seek the Lord for the final verdict though. color]. Agree. Its a bedrock of the church. I don't see it that way. Rather that it's important for people to put the priesthood in the proper context. At times it seems the pressure is on to either except what the priesthood holder says as gospel law or to be cast out if not in total agreement and obedience to what was said. Those are the choices many feel beholden to accept whether they feel led in another good direction or not. I think its important that areas inbetween have adequate consideration since that is where so many fall so many of the times on their personal roads. From things I have witnessed it can appear wrong to admit where you are at if not in accordance to the priestholder views and can bring a kind of shunning. You must immediately conform or its a sign of an apostate heart. But if you're not honest with yourself how can you really better yourself? What effect is the priesthood really having on you? Also what effect are you having on the priesthood? Using your example (even though its done and over and you feel differently now) what if you hadn't been afraid to open your mouth? If you had felt the strength at that time to speak up maybe it would have at least given him something to consider? By keeping your mouth shut may have been an encouragement to him. You came out hurt. Its understandable why you didn't at the time because in your mind it would have been standing up to God and questioning Him. It would have taken much courage to do so. That is my concern for others. That they might now that there are areas you might disagree. That yes God has placed priesthood authority there to lead, guide, and provide ordinances for the church as a whole. Not to take away our agency but to help to guide us in using it wisely and in accordance with Gods will. Ultimately as other great men of faith have done, we need to seek our ultimate strength and wisdom from the Lord. That communication line has never been taken from us despite the restoration of the priesthood. It is the source that trumps the priesthood. So if you find a discrepancy take it to the Lord for clarification and don't quit until you get it lol. Or maybe you'd be their mortal challenge and help keep things balanced:) ?

I would agree to a point on this. Could that be because of the inability to practice it as much due to lower number of priesthood holders in other areas? Utah is still seen as the center of the LDS universe because of the LDS concentration, the prophets living there and its history. So people still look to it as the center of wisdom and try to conform themselves in varying degrees to what the Utah mormons follow. Also I think some of the problem comes in through changes in church history. Previously LDS had no choice but to stick together because of the persecution. More temporal organization and uniformity was required or demanded to withstand all the obstacles. Whereas now the church is in a different stage where we have more opportunities to express our faith in different ways without the heavy obstacles others faced.. Another reason that I think the priesthood is so heavily emphasized and relied upon is because that is the hallmark of the LDS church. It is one of the defining things of the church and so people want to value this important thing that God saw fit to restore. They want to use it and build up its importance

Elphaba-It's good that you were able to continue on and rise about the hurt you felt at the time-although you're current religious status in some LDS eyes might indicate otherwise . What I liked about your comments is that it introduced a situation that makes people stop and think for themselves (and with spirit filled directon). Sometimes personal spirit leadings may be different then the priesthoods. Can there be cases where this might happen? Seeing that priesthood holders by nature are still human and lay people I would say that possibility exists. Also people are to weigh things out in our own mind I'm sure we are going to get opportunites to practice that. You felt strongly about it so it seems its something you needed to do. If someone in the priesthood were to come strongly against something I felt inwardly true I'd defineately proceed with more caution and diligence if I went against what they said knowing they were in theory placed there by God. It also a reminder priesthood that they must seek to follow the spirit and lead by understanding and guiding. Not by force or demand. It really concerns me as I have known some who rely on the priesthood for their decisions and cannot think without it. Feeding into this thought is the constant talk to your bishop. Whenever anything happens go talk to the bishop. I have the sniffles today -go talk to the bishop and get a blessing. While it may be prudent to do so, at the same time you have to think for yourself and some things are not understood or may be able to be handled by him. Then there is the legalistics, a bishop has a very busy schedule most times and it can be difficult to get in. So pushing the dependence on priesthood for every little thing can be an issue. While in most situations it is not the case, as others have pointed out the priesthood is not always right or may be talking to the church as a whole and not to individual situations. It seems like some people almost try and give their freedom to choose up to the priesthood rather then to think and operate for them self. They almost put a self imposed mediator or buffer between them and God. These are all issues to keep in check. We are told to ask in our heart if its true. But then we are supposed to trust in the man appointed by God to direct and lead us-much like Moses. The struggle is when you get two conflicting things. This man appointed by God to lead his church is supposed to be trusted and followed. I can understand fully the struggle you present. I wish more could understand that this is an issue for some and not just apostates (or soon to be). If this was truly understood or addressed maybe there would be less.

Thanks Elphaba for sharing your story. From what you said these thoughts really stood out in my mind..... While our life circumstances are different, this is where my major struggles come in with the church too. Doing God's will or man's? Doing the right thing as I believe vs commiting a sin. At times when unrighteous leadership is in place or you are getting a different spirit promptings going against priesthood authority, priesthood opinion, and the popular church opinion what is the right way to go. Its particularly difficult when dealing with priesthood holders. While human these are supposed to be men whom God has chosen, placed over to guide, lead and be his representative here on earth. Then how can the answers be so different? In your case even if you were dead wrong in your decision to go to Cambridge how can they ignore or dismiss your feelings and promptings and how that was shaping your opinion and making you feel? Why wouldn't they discuss that too you and clarify? Find out why you were choosing that path? (Guess it takes a woman :) ) The road they chose seemed to do the most damage. Another struggle why are priesthood opinions even if not based in fact can be made to appear as such? Makes me wonder how many other people have been driven away by being directed in a path that was not for them. Or were driven away over trivial things. In most other christian faiths there is no one between you and God/Christ/Spirit. You don't have to worry about what others think. Only what God places on your heart and that can be measured by scriptures. If you make a mistake its either you or God to blame. There is peace and purpose. It just seems confusing at times sticking someone in the middle. Someone who is not helping. This all being said I really do respect church leaders and their dedication overall. They and their families have a tough job and the majority are doing it for sincere reasons. They love the Lord and seek to do His Will. But they are not perfect and can make big mistakes too. I worry about putting too much stock into leadings that may be more opinions presented as more and diminishing from the inward spirit leadings.

You did not sound to me like just another judgemental person. In fact I can really appreciate your similiar experiences yet different perspective. Just kind of dumped many things out in the last post. There are some very good people at church. I guess I don't give them enough credit because I get so focused on one thing. Because of just the stressors of the disability going to church in and of itself is a challenge. Then when you have people wondering what you're doing there it just angers me and steals the spirit. Its hurtful to my children. They didn't ask for this (or maybe premortally they did). But there are those who are pleasant and nice. Maybe the lesson from all this is love and forgiveness on my own part. Seeking strength from the Lord. Changing my spirit towards others. Counting my blessings. Being open and understanding to others misunderstandings. No one else there has the same challenges so I can't blame them for not understanding the situation as it is. Plus I do have a tendancy of trying to handle everything on my own. Can't help but wish they'd make similar efforts though. All problems can be solved here (at least theoretically). Isn't this site great? Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

thanks for your comments everyone. Putting thoughts down and reading your comments has been helpful. The_Jason-"better to be liked by other people or learn the gospel" Thats my area of struggle. If he's unable to work through all the stuff he's given he's unable to learn it. Should he be in an environment where he'd learn at least some principles from even if at other places? Also not only because of his disability but because my husband will not allow it he can not get baptized. So what other burdens are being placed upon him then he already has? His seperation and pressure from others will only grow. Dr T. -Ideally all children should "Come Unto Me" as the savior said. Unfortunately there are those who'd like to selectively choose. I just wish they'd take a different perspective. I'd hate to be in their position when they stand before the savior and says "In as much as ye've done it unto the least of these..." Yediyd- I could understand peoples frustration with behaviors as you mentioned and safety concerns. But on the other hand you deal with it everyday. He is one of Gods creation. I do burden most of the load of handling the disability and keep up with all the new information on it, plus the other children. I work at night when the kids are in bed at a job with stressful conditions and am going to class on the side. All to keep up with the expenses and care. Trying to maintain house. I've been facing some medical concerns of my own that are concerning at the moment. Handle some various friend and family situations as well as try to maintain positive relationships in between. One of the reasons I check into this site to visit with others. Trying to stay out of debt but bills keep mounting despite my husband and my income. Keeping up with church responsibilities. Dealing with all the many meetings people feel are necessary. Being under the microscope for every little move made and having to document the whole life. Then some make you out to be a saint for handling what's thrown at you, get all distressed because they've missed out since they haven't been given such challenges as you. or others make their own insensitive comments, say you're not doing it right, become an expert educator and complain because you've missed something you should have done. Get this world I"M A NORMAL PERSON TRYING TO HANDLE THE CIRCUMSTANCES I"VE BEEN GIVEN! I don't want to be the center of attention. I'm not claiming disability priveledge. Another reason I like this site. I can be on and nobody cares:). Many times I wonder what I'm doing and wish I could stop. I'd wouldnt mind taking the time to educate everyone on disability and how to handle it but I've got too much on my plate already. The people who should be educated the most don't want to take the time or effort anyway. Vinny-there are some who really treat him good. Heaven knows their names already as I've mentioned them. There are some who really like to instigate troubles though and make you feel lower than dirt. I guess I'm just too sensitive at this point. As I've discovered from this making this post, I think I maxed out with everything. Don't know what to cut out right now. Church is a huge stressor and I wish it wasn't such an extra heavy burden:(. Guess that's why I picked it. Xhenli-you're right I shouldn't make it all or nothing. I was upset. There's so many factors to consider. Strawberry-thanks for your prayers and the cyber hug . It was just what the doctor ordered lol. Sixpactr thanks for your comments too. Thanks all. You really gave some things to consider.

This is the situation I want to attend church and do whats asked. My child is developmentally disabled. I have been told by members that he doesn't need to come to church. He will be saved anyway. He's got an automatic pass I guess because of his disability. I don't agree with this. I feel it important that he learn of the gospel and basic morals. But he doesn't fit in. In fact he's hates it and now puts on a production about going. (Can't say I blame him). He's not ready for any ordinances yet that doesn't stop pressure from being applied. There are some that are trying to help (its really appreciated) but there is some snide, hurtful things going on too. There are some who make it very clear you're not welcome. If it were just myself I wouldn't care, but it is not. There is a nearby church which has the ability to address his needs. He might not be getting the gospel in its fulness but he would at least be learning things that would help him. It would be closer to go to this church also. Would it be wrong to go there? Through a program he went through there he came home excited about God and Jesus rather than dreading it. They presented things in a way that he can comprehend and there are some good social programs to assist. In contrast to the way the primary is set up. Its difficult for a typical child. On him it is especially hard. Here he would be learning. I know that the LDS church is the place to be. Would it be wrong to want him to learn the basic knowledge of christ and his gospel in a way that he can understand at another? He's already been told that he doesn't need to be there at primary. I've prayed for the wisdom. Instead of feeling a burning that I should go to church, I feel that I shouldn't go there right now and do what's best for my child. Is not going wrong? As much as I enjoy church principles I'd be going out of guilt that I wasn't doing the right thing. I've given this much time and thought I'm torn between doing the right LDS thing and what feels inside to be the right thing. I feel I've put forth much effort to go despite extradordinary circumstances I've been given. They're something I've dealt with personally and choose not to discuss in detail here. But these factors do play a part in this decision. The reason I'm so concerned here is that this choice has ripple effects on others. What should I do? Am I right to feel this way or choose this course of action? Or is this the start to going apostate? If I were going that way I should be there. I don't want to handle the questions of why I'm not there or that I should be there from other members because it would probably make me mad after some of the things that have been done. There are some great people there and I am not angry at the church. I want to continue building my families foundation from the bottom up. With Christ the chief cornerstone. I don't want to be forced to take on another battle defending myself against other pushy and agressive members. I've got enough other things on my plate right now.

Your leaving leadership training wouldn't have helped anyway. Being a good leader involves handling great stress and possessing emotional fortitude. It looks like thats something Chad didn't have. Had he been in the training and gone to become a leader the same type of thing would have happened, maybe just a little later. He was an emotional time bomb waiting to blow. Maybe the merciful hand of the Lord as suggested above removed this burden from him. Hopefully he will be able to see differently now As a leader you will have to deal with others like Chad too. You have already pointed out some signs that you saw and feel you missed. Maybe these things will prove useful to others. It will help you identify and look for sources to direct people you lead, minimizing repeat occurances.

His death and your temple recommend will always be linked in your mind. Coincidence? So many times people die and are not adequately remembered for the way in which they touched lives and tried to live. They are ones who do not grab the spotlight despite their great impact. They do not leave buildings with their name, findd an organization, make the news... They are the ones in the background. The heros that make up the spotlight for others. Their life flickers out without little recognition since it seems so small and insignificant. Thanks for sharing your friend Chad with us and making sure his life didn't flicker out without recognition. Hope to meet him someday

Thanks for sharing. This hit home. Some people leave a mark or empty spot that just doesn't go away and can't be filled. I've known my "Chads" and thank God for them every day and pray that they are being taken care of out of my sight. (Thank God for gospel hopes). Its painful to see good people trying and suffering. Then see their life taken in an instant. It leaves a numbing pain that seems like it won't leave. Its difficult to have faith in the eternal perspective at times. It just doesn't seem fair or make sense But then what else can you do but get up and keep going? Maybe with your new temple recommend you can go to the temple for him next year and give something back to him?

I disagree.Her family is more than just her parents and siblings. She chose to establish a home with her husband. The temple is important to him. Regardless though she needs to do what is right. It may cause some short term problems and cause her family to shut her out. But does this mean she should be miserable and penalize her new family by denying them blessings?. She needs to think of the long term price for not going or doing what she feels is right. What effects might that have. No sacrifice that she makes will go unrewarded. What ever she gives up will be replaced 100 fold. She has to be true to what she knows. The advesary would like to keep her from doing what is right. Scriptures talk about how families will be divided by the gospel. What side will she be on? The comfortable feel good one? Or the Lords As she lives and walks in the gospel she will learn better ways to love and serve her family. But without the opportunites to grow in the gospel this may never happen. CTR

What year did they attend? I think she said three years ago :) Marlie You said you wanted to make those who could not come comfortable with your going through and receiving your endowments? I am not sure I understand why anyone would feel uncomfortable for not being there with you for this. Your marriage has already taken place so if they don't see you receive your endowment that should not be a big deal (it's not like everyone watches it anyway). I could see why they might not want you to be married in the temple and where that may cause a rift. That directly impacts them and makes thing more complicated for them. Especially with non member friends and family. Not sure why they would not want you to go for your endowments. See if you can find out why. It may be hard to get the why's out of them depending on the reason and their sensitivities. But finding out will help you relate and deal with them better. Some people get all worked up about little things and blow them out of proportion. It seems like something is really troubling your family. They are really hurt and bothered by something. As far as you not really participating in the temple at all theres only a couple of reasons I can think of for that. They had a bad experience or disallusioned. Thus there inactivity too. They feel seperated from God or hurt by Him for some reason. It wasn't what they expected.The church does have a way of making things out to be very grandiose. If not filled with the spirit the experience can be too simple or plain. If they were hurt they probably don't want to see you get hurt. Maybe they fear the LDS view of the eternity and feel as though they will never be worthy to be with you. If you go and they don't will you be together? As far as the endowments though you have to do what you feel is right. Don't forgo the opportunity to go if this is whats right for you. Strawberries right. This is a private covenant between you and God. Its something you don't have to announce to everybody you come in contact with or flaunt in front of people. Knowing it troubles your family, I would be sensitive to their opinion and not make this a point of discussion. Rather make attempts to show your family that you care even though you will/ or have gone to the temple. The gospel principals are something you are striving to live in your life. Keep reaching out to them even if you don't agree and its just a hello. Don't keep rubbing in to them that they should go to the temple or discuss too much your going. . Focus on other things. They might not be ready or want to go back to the temple but there are gospel principals and ideals worth fighting for and living outside of the temple. These include love , faith, forgiveness, peace, family, unity, communication and so forth. From the LDS perspective if you want to be with them forever, then they will need to understand and live these principals too. :)

I have a lot of favorites. This one's really good. Really needed it today. Homesick Lyrics » Mercy Me You're in a better place, I've heard a thousand times And at least a thousand times I've rejoiced for you But the reason why I'm broken, the reason why I cry Is how long must I wait to be with you I close my eyes and I see your face If home's where my heart is then I'm out of place Lord, won't you give me strength to make it through somehow I've never been more homesick than now Help me Lord cause I don't understand your ways The reason why I wonder if I'll ever know But, even if you showed me, the hurt would be the same Cause I'm still here so far away from home I close my eyes and I see your face If home's where my heart is then I'm out of place Lord, won't you give me strength to make it through somehow I've never been more homesick than now In Christ, there are no goodbye And in Christ, there is no end So I'll hold onto Jesus with all that I have To see you again To see you again And I close my eyes and I see your face If home's where my heart is then I'm out of place Lord, won't you give me strength to make it through somehow Won't you give me strength to make it through somehow Won't you give me strength to make it through somehow I've never been more homesick than now

Our faith walk includes both experiences for individual and collective growth. The Book of Mormon and other scriptures mention how we can worship God anywhere. You can find aspects of gospel living, happiness and worship outside of church. Individually you can communicate with God anytime. This is good news especially if you can't make it to church. Right now, from what your posts show, you've been handed a lot of tough things that demand your time and attention. You have been given the ability to be sensitive to them and try to address them. On the other hand there's also the social aspect. Christ used the analogy of the church as a body. You are a part of that body. There are aspects that only you can bring and that even the most annoying person can too:) Each person rubs off on others and teaches important things. What happens when you are not there? I know sometimes there are people whose names I don't know or recall. But I notice when they are not at church. Ben said something in one of his posts why church? The response was, to show whose side your on. Also as a LDS there are certain ordinances to take part in and lessons to learn. Don't know why you haven't been to church. Just weigh your own situation out in your heart. Why aren't you going? Do you harbor anger, impatience or something? Or do you have matters that need your attention? ( like crimson caring for his dad?). If there is a good reason why you are not after having discussed it with God don't be hard on yourself. Just because you are not physically at church does not mean your heart can't be on the right track. Maybe there is something you can work out so you can at least go once in a while. if you are supposed to be at church-get there! You won't be happy unless you do.

lol Almom. It is funny to some degree even though you must have been disappointed at first to go through all that work. The Lord does work in mysterious ways. I enjoyed your study and absolutely loved the song on your other post:) Have they asked you to do it another time?

There needs to be a clause when signing up that states the removal process . When a person asks to be removed it must be done by group approval and vote . Or at least an identity should not be removed without good byes .The votes in this topic are clear MamaCat is missed

Thanks to your family for your service and sacrifice. May you return safe and healthy.

I really don't think he's a pain either :) . Rather I'm amazed by his motivation, knowledge and understandings. Its obvious he's done a lot of work in an area that most people aren't very skilled in or and motivated towards doing what he has done.

Thanks for sharing. That was a great article. Liked how it pointed out that that evil is out there and to look at ways in which we may be making ourselves a victim. Its easy to see examples where people make themselves a victim. We can suffer physical and spiritual injury We can choose what we will do. We can go armed with the Spirit and the Lord. There may be unavoidable evils that come into our lives. The righteous fight as a last resort. There will be a struggle and pain out of it. Goes with the 1st Presidency message this month too.

lol, thanks rosie, but i am only just seeing this because i did get to work. it was time to cook dinner. hahaha.....but i did eventually get to the lesson. still don't have the lesson for the sisters, but i think i'm finding the lesson for me (which i'm sure is far from over). they may have to suffer through what i needed if i run out of time. sigh, pray for the sisters. lol so, what i've been learning.... i'm still looking for the quote, but i recall a talk or ensign article that talked about the difference between acting and reacting. i keep comming back to that, if anyone finds it let me know. anyway. Handling Lifes Unpredictable Situations by Terry Smith Ensign December 1988 Learning to Teach as Jesus Taught: A parents point of view Ensign September 1974 Our Actions Determine our Character Wayne Peterson Liahona 2002 May I Have this Dance (directed toward the youth but good by Brad Wilcox New Era August 1979 & New Era, Oct 1991, Q&A section pg 17 Sorry they are not APA or MLA style :) i've never really thought about the feeling of anger, i've felt what i would call true anger 3 times in my life. the first i can't remember, though i should i was 12, but my mom was there the second time and said she had only seen that expresson on my face once before and told me the story. and boy do a lot of things make since knowing about it. the third would be this last week, the feelings have come and gone, but i do catorgorize them all as one experiance, all the same catylist, ongoing event. i've been reflecting upon what anger is, for me more than anything, but in general as well. it's an odd emotion. serves a great purpose. and yet, it can and will destroy you if given the chance. i think my anger this time has become so great because i wasn't dealing with (acting on) the situation but feeling (reacting to) the situation. when i started listing everyone i was angry at, and trying to decide what i was angry at them for. what specifically did they do? does this merrit the level of anger i am feeling toward them? that kind of thing. i discovered how much of that anger was displaced. i wanted to make things right, not hurt anyone or make them pay, not retribution, but make it just, make it right. mercy can't rob justice right? lol there in lies the trap. the anger was such that i was ready to force things to be made right if needs be. the more i thought on what needed to be forced to justice; the easier it was to start drifting over the line, into retribution. so i've begun making a good list of what needs to be done, what i can do, and i'm trying to focus on what i can do, after that it needs to be let go; put in gods hands; whatever comes of it. ok so i know this is a lot easier to write than to actually do; it will be a challenge. knowing me, if i make the decision now, i should be able to do it, with some concious effort. what i'm experiancing now is the culmination (i hope, but may be just a step on the road) of events that have been going on for over a yr. there is someone in my family's life that a little over a yr ago said if you don't do x for me (x was something good since wouldn't allow to be done) then we will destroy you, we will make you hurt, we will make you pay (monitary and otherwise), we will destroy your family. very angery and bitter ppl i desire to be nothing like. You can ask HF for protection and aide. They don't have more power that what he has. Although don't expect things to get better at the snap of a finger. there is the slight time differential and if things are in really bad shape it might take awhile. Pull away from the evil (still act in love). Put safeguards in place when being around them. Really consider how much do you have to be around them? Are there other ways of operating without them? i can see in them how anger will run your life, rob you of happiness, how it becomes all you can think about. how it destroys. what has been going on the past week and i'm sure will continue to evolve over the next few weeks, is part of these efforts to destroy us. Dont let it Claim the victory. Look who's on your side! if i allow myself to be angry, allow this to cause contention between my husband and i, to let myself get angry with my chruch leaders for not taking the action that i think they could and should, all the things that are/were happening; they win. they have done just what they promised. and i let them. the odd reality is no matter what they promised and what they do; the only one that can destroy my life is me. Stick your head up and keep going and doing right. Pray for much strength to do it. That will drive them even crazier :) To see that they did not suceed in their efforts. I think of the story of Joseph in the OT (israels son). He told his brothers after their evil act what you meant for evil God meant for good. That is the attitude to obtain. just as jesus when tempted by satan was given promises of the world, the world wasn't satan's to give, it was an empty promise; like every promise satan has ever made. it was an empty threat/promise. no one has power to destroy me but me. i have to let them. they have been winning this last week because i let them. no more. i don't hate them. i don't want them to hurt. i don't want retribution. i will seek justice, if justice is not served after all that is in my power to see to it, i will let it go. i will not hate those that i feel have failed to bring about justice. i'm sure i will mourn the temporary victory of satan, and it will take time and be a struggle. but i know i can, and i'm deciding now that i will. i will try to remember the words of my son in his prayer for our family. in the end it will be right. The more you recognize the evil of sin and the price it has the more you will be on the right track and be conformed into the image of God. Satan will not win so don't hang around his paths or try to conform yourself to fit the demands of evil people. All the evil stuff people do will be called out and their will be an awful judgement Let your actions be things you want to be accountable for not what others do from the talk by pres. faust; i was assigned: Dr. Sidney Simon, a recognized authority on values realization, has provided an excellent definition of forgiveness as it applies to human relationships: "Forgiveness is freeing up and putting to better use the energy once consumed by holding grudges, harboring resentments, and nursing unhealed wounds. It is rediscovering the strengths we always had and relocating our limitless capacity to understand and accept other people and ourselves." thanks to those that care (and the ones that could care less and are not saying it) for letting me name my feelings here. not sure how much of the above makes since, it does to me, guess that's all that is important. now to figure out what to say in rs and make it make since. lol I've enjoyed your naming of feelings. Its made me go back and find out how much work I still have to do. You gave me purpose Made me think too, we sisters love to help and save the world its easy to forget saving ourselves and immediate family.

Can't believe you took the time to figure that out.People like you make my head throb :) Amazing. Good Work (if I could and desired to comprehend it all :) ) There's enough in the here and now I have difficulties with.