rosie321

As the many examples of scriptures demonstrate, its to know that we can survive all the problems life throws at us. Our problems might not be removed, as Christs for example were not, but we can make it through and accomplish what we have to do here on earth. There is joy in that. "In the World ye might have tribulation but be of good cheer for I have overcome the world" "All these things will give ye experience"

Jehote , While our circumstances maybe different I can understand the underlying frustration and anger you might feel towards God at this time. I've had difficult experiences and have been there for others in challenging times and seen the pain in their eyes too. Its hard to belief at times there is any sense to all this madness. The pain is real. I have also struggled as you with not wanting to return. Who wants to be around a God who lets such painful things occur? These are some thoughts and ideas that may help you as they have helped me. First let me strongly encourage you to read Disappointment With God by Phillip Yancey and Where is God When It Hurts. He is a christian author and puts into words quite well his strugglings with God and pain. Though non-LDS , his ideas fit in nicely with Latterday Saint principles. It was nice to get a christian perspective from someone with nothing to lose. It shows how he reconciled his thoughts on your issues in a way I can't begin to adequately summarazie. Another thing that has helped me is to look at the Savior. His love and compassion. I think of Him in the Garden suffering and bleeding at every pore. Yet even he, part of the Godhead submitted to the will of God. Because of his suffering we all can be redeemed. You are following in the footsteps of Christ. YOu agreed to follow in HIs footsteps and to take up your cross and come follow him. The way may be difficult and hard but who knows what good may come from it. Any sacrifices or pain gone through as you are being faithful will not go unnoticed. When I think of some of the medical procedures people have to go through I can't help but shudder. As a parent the hardest thing is to watch your children go through it. I think God probably feels much the same way. He doesn't like to see his children suffer as is indicated in so many other places in scriptures but sin is a poison and has a price. Sometimes that price is paid by the innocent. But all things can work together for the good. YOu both made the commitment to follow God and agreed to do whatever and to follow. God promised to back you up. Look to the Lord for strength now and understanding. He promises to be there for us. As the oft repeated saying goes something like this " God does not remove our problems but he gives us a way to get through them" Don't be afraid to keep asking even though you might not be feeling or seeing things now. Christ was pained in the Garden and he also witnessed His Father have to turn away while he was on the cross as made evident through his words Father why has thou forsaken me? So you might have those moments where you feel like you've been deserted but God is still there. Have faith in the promises The cleansing process from sin is a drawn out one to create the person we need to be to enter back into the presence of God. God may be very well working in your lives and throwing you deeper challenges because of your abilities at a given time. Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father. Look to the testimonies of people on this board and others you know. Crimson, Strawberry are just two that immediately come to mind from this board who have had to watch their loved ones go through some horrible suffering. The pain for them is real. Yet their strength and witness despite all of that is amazing and are an uplift to all here on this board. Lastly I must ask what are your options Jehote? If you abandon God and his church what are you going towards? What do you believe? What better options are out there? From your posts I don't get the idea that you abandon God you're just really upset right now. If thats the case go to Heavenly Father and plead for strength. Do what you know is right. Go to God and recieve your daily bread to face the challenges the new day brings. My prayers are with your family WOW! nice board! ok, i didnt want to hop on here and unload a bunch of personal stuff, being the new guy and all. granted i did lurk abit and figured you all would be cool, but you never know for sure..... ok, this may make NO sense to you all. but it does to me. I was told that the thing that hurts our father in heaven is when we stray, and have nothing to do with him etc etc. so that is what i have been doing. my wife is in her mid 30's and last year was hit with cancer. it was bad. surgery, after care etc. it was not a good year for us. so, in a nutshell if god is loving and compassionate wouldnt he have spared her all this? he could have NOT let her get cancer, or NOT GIVEN her cancer. either way it was a sick thing to do to. now i have been told you wont be given more than you can handle, gods will etc etc. but you know what? i call bull-pucky on that. you dont hurt the ones you love. and you sure dont try to kill them. im still so mad and hurt by all this. i mean i totally was buying the whole LDS life. for 2 years we lived the gospel and teachings. and then oh thanks and btw you get the bonus prize. cancer. so i said thats it. no more church, no more anything and i just turned it off. and my wife followed me away. i think she feels the same deep down. i cant really tell you in a posting how it feels. i dont think this will read the right way for you all. the best way i can say it is this. i had a best friend who hurt the one i loved the most so i have nothing to do with him anymore. BUT i miss my friend. you see? J

There's been a lot of problems going on in our world creating many heartaches for people and a feebling of the faithfuls knees. Scriptures do not promise that our life will be problem free but it does promise that we will be able to make it through. Last year there was a focus on faith. This year on miracles. What are your favorite stories that demonstrate the Lords provisions for man to be able to survive? What are your favorite verses, thoughts and ideas? For example I like the verse "Peace I leave you not as the world giveth I unto you" I like the story of Moses and how each step of the way God kept helping the Israelites (its only unfortunate they were not more obedient). They were delivered from slavery, food and water, recieved salvation (by looking at the snake). God met their needs every step of the way only when they refused to heed or have faith did they feel abandoned. I like the stories where God speaks to people whether through vision, dreams, Godly appearances or His appointed one sharing the need to move on, the will of God or how to escape harm. While each person experienced some temporary loss the plans of the Lord were fulfilled. Its nice to know that God can and will help us out. What things do you like or are helpful to you?

Glad you are here and that you made the post. Seems like you needed to. After all your awful experiences in your ward this site will seem as heaven to you. There are many wonderful LDS brothers and sisters on this site as well as many non-LDS friends. Know that your ward is not indicative of the worldwide church or how Christ would want His Church to be acting.Don't be sorry for your post. I felt the same way on my first post. Why did I do that? It was my last hope though. I was so burned out and disgusted with everything. I just spewed out everything that came to mind. I felt a great discrepancy in the church also, amongst other things. But as a result of that first post I have come back a number of times, have been able to see things differently and have found ways on how to deal with situations and my comprehensions have increased. Not sure quite what to specifically tell you to do about how to counteract this unrighteous behavior. Going to the stake president would probably be the best idea. If that doesn't work I believe it would be ok just to keep going up the leadership lines. Maybe they will allow you to go back into the other ward you were in or will help address the problems in your current one. The treatment you are recieving is not Christlike nor should it be tolerated in Christs church. You recognize that it is wrong and may have been placed there to help people get back on to Christs path. Keep standing tall and proud as God's child. With your heart in the right place who knows what good may come about.

Good points Dr T. We can't blame it all on our Mexican neighbors. The US has many homegrown problems all on its own. If there were no benefits for it the illegal immigrant problem would not be an issueThere are a lot of bad US workers especially in certain job areas. Some places really do have a difficult time retaining a good workforce who actually wants to work. Created by a bunch of different reasons including our welfare programs, unions, debt obligations, sense of entitlement, and our self esteem programs which tell people they are too good to work certain jobs or in certain places or have to follow certain rules. There are some jobs considered "menial" work that is "below" people. Like working at a fast food restaurant or even according to Kerry working in the military. But there still are good hardworking people that would work those jobs (and do). They shouldn't have to pay the the high cost of illegal immigration from their wages. The immigration system is in desperate need of overall. The paperwork end and the costs are high. You're right in that observation. Why would people go through the complicated system if they can walk right in? Priority should be given to make the processes easier for people entering this country legally and the ways should be hedged up for illegal immigrants to enter. For securities sake and to decrease the burdens (such as healthcare) created in various locations. The way it appears nothing will be done except encouraging people to walk in and take from our social programs and medical programs making it so our own workers can't afford to work. los estados unidos - EL Nuevo Mexico Grande?

Great response A train

The Canadians come as guests and do not expect the US to meet their every demand. The Mexicans on the other hand come here and want our country to be run as theirs. Isn't that one of the reasons why they are leaving their country to come here and work? Because their system of government is not working? They are not getting paid enough to support their families. (even though many of our US jobs have been sent there). What are they going to do to make things better in their country or to get here legally? (just walking over the border is not legal) Also if you are invited as a guest to someones country or go through the legal process you should seek to make it better. You're in someone elses house. Don't demand that things are done the same way as your home. If you don't like it there's the door go back home. Illegals should be removed and asked to come through our doors not our windows. To work within our systems just as anyone else should. Otherwise our country will continue to undergo many hardships. How can we expect to teach our children to obey the law when we are not holding accountable the ones who are breaking it but instead giving them a free pass to commit more without accountablity? We are financially rewarding them by offering social security and free healthcare. What incentive is there to finish school as fiannan pointed out? Or to gain skills which might keep meaningful jobs in our country? No one in government seems to take the illegal part of this seriously or the burden it has become on the average american. They are too busy counting votes. This in my opinion, will be one of those areas where tensions will boil under the surface and be glossed over until they finally blow up. What a disaster it will be when it finally does explode. It will take a long recovery period, if its even possible.

What a senseless tragedy So many lives destroyed. What are we coming to that such evil acts are becoming so frequent? That people value life with so little regard. Morals and values slipping away. People using violence as their means of communication This really hits home. There have been a few random senseless acts that have cost great loss and touch my life and the lives of people I care about. Its really hard to cope with. Even with all the gospel truths we have and the hope we're given. These are the last days but.......... such little regard for one another, so little value of life, so much hate again moment of silence Dearest Heavenly Father, Grant us peace and faith O Lord to make it through these difficult times. Help us to endure to the end. This mortal existance brings us lots of pain at times. May we see the hope that comes from the gospel and grant us the strength to get through lifes most challenging times. Help us to be faithful, to CTR, and be a positive influence. Change begins with us. Be with the families, friends and associates who are dealing with this awful tragedy or other loss. May they be drawn closer to you and find the peace they need to make it through each new day. May they sense the care that others have for them and be bouyed up This is my humble Prayer in the name of Jesus Christ Amen

and they speak English and become part of the melting pot. the people south of the border do not. English and French, although they don't expect French to become a national language when coming to the US As previous posts said they melt in very nicely, the majority enter in legally and they do not become a burden on our system when here.

Some random thoughts on your question Comparing LDS views to christian views of salvation -heaven and hell Its hard to summarize or effectively explain such complex, beautiful doctrine in such few words and give it the credit due but let me give it a try. Salvation and Eternal life are two seperate things though very much intertwined much like faiths and works are. Faith without works is dead. Salvation and Eternal life work pretty much the same in the LDS faith as well as other key related doctrines. Salvation is a process of releasing oneself from sin and being cleansed so we can be saved from the full consequences of sin. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and "The natural man is an enemy to God." "No unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of Heaven". Through the blood of christ and doing as the Saviour asks in faith we will be cleansed and will be able to enter the kingdom of Heaven. If we are not willing to do the things the saviour asks then we don't really know him and therefore will remain in the awful knowledge of our sins and be cut off from the presence of God until repentance is made. We will not be saved in the christian understandings. Salvation comes from knowing Christ and being willing to do that which you are shown. For example Christ told Nicodemous when he asked the same question that man must be born again (baptized). We are told that we must obey His commandments too and endure to the end. It is being "one" with the will of God and coming to KNOW God the Eternal father and His Son Jesus Christ. Salvation comes from the walking in faith process. it is not a one time destination or event. If one is not careful and diligent they can allow sin to take over them and choose things other than Gods Will. We don't worry about Heaven and Hell when walking in the footsteps of Christ. Instead we do the will of God and trust that "it is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do". God has provided ways for all His children to be saved if they choose to accept them. We have many lessons to learn in the walking and learning more of Christ. Of daily being cleansed by sin through repentance and forgiveness. The " just shall walk by faith." Latterday Saints tend to emphasize the what to do part even though the gift of the atonement saves us and cannot be "earned." LDS base their works on the atonement and remember it through weekly sacrament meeting. We have faith that God will bless our efforts and his grace will cover the shortages.. Those who have chosen to recieve it and make a place for it are tutored by the Holy Spirit who will lead us in the path of Christ and will help us know what we should be doing. Hope that is helpful. Well, How do I get to heaven. How do I avoid going to Hell?

NOt sure what to say to that. Its got to be hard to watch. Some people do remarry after short times and everyone deals with grief differently. Theres no set time table for grief. She's probably looking at moving on and needing someone to not feel so alone. She might even be grieving still and have hooked up with this guy to feel better. Or might she have remembered it was his favorite and wanted to remember him? I'm not sure why she'd play a song with those lyrics though especially for a second marriage unless maybe she loves the second more At least she had enough respect for the daughter not to play it and to consider her feelings on it.

Looks like we're going to have to send the missionaries your way DrT Youre also sentenced to more time here on LDS Talk to put up with all us BOM thumpers :) I liked the game. But it just keptasking the same questions over and over. Needs more questions. I did do pretty good but kept getting stuck at 8 or 9 and had to start over again. That wasn't fun I finally was able to get to the top where it asks if you want to play again. no million dollar prize

Murders happen everyday in many areas and they're all devasting. Despite the hoopla surrounding them. There are areas you can't walk in during daylight hours and some people can't go out of their house without worrying about getting attacked or killed. It amazes me which stories make National News and which don't also. It surprised me for example the Peterson trial where he killed his wife and unborn baby. Why did that make the National news? He became one of the nations poster children for murdering husband/ baby killer. Out of all the incidents that happen nationwide how did he get so lucky? We've had some pretty bad crimes where I live but they're never nationalized. Most people take them for granted and some don't know about them because they only tell a brief blurb that there was a murder over on the East or West side. People have gotton to tune those blurbs as much as possible. The number of homicides are given as little possible All the shootings, stabbings, drunken drivers, etc. which injure people but don't kill them are never reported despite the great devestation to families. Yet all create the same heartache for families as the ones that make local or national news. Many times its the families who push the issue that get it into the news or someone wanting to make a public statement around here. Those who die in certain areas get more attention. The mall incident probably got peoples attention and seemed like a news grabber. Here you have innocent people spending the day at the mall and some got killed others injured. The innocent people that get shot coming out of church or getting on the bus for school and work, having their home invaded is just one person or family. Its easier to ignore and not quite the headline grabber. In some ways its probably good that we don't hear about the crimes all the time. It would be too depressing But maybe people would care more about the problems and want to do something about it if they really knew what was going on. Maybe come up with more prevention then waiting until someone feels they have to pull out their gun to get help or to be heard. One could only hope If we added up the national murder average or wounded wonder how it would compare with the statistics from Iraq

How do you handle the whole race/prejudice/ pc area without compromising who you are? Right now much concerted effort is being made to clean things up and not offend anyone so we can live in our perfect society. Right now people are looking at the shock jocks and talk shows and saying they deserve it. This effort in my opinion will not stop with just the media. It will impinge on all our freedoms in the longrun. The same type of thinking in my opinion is what got people like Hitler going What does that mean for christians and conservatives? How can we survive the times without compromising our beliefs, standing for truth at all times and all places, retaining as many of our freedoms as possible, protect and provide for our families and not be destroyed in the process? Right now I can't help but see this whole fiasco with Imus (since it has been made the catalyst for change) and others in media as a tool for a much farther agenda. Don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist But say for example in a forum, like talk radio or tv commentary where one can say what they believe and to make your points etc. what do you do to promote values and a sense of right and wrong? Bringing it to the every day for us how in general conversations can we keep from falling into the Racist/pc/ prejudiced/ harrasment camp? For example most Christians fundamentally believe certain things are wrong and will lead a person to hell or lesser glory if you will. Homosexuality, fornication, adultery, stealing etc are all viewed as sinful acts and subject reaping from them what was sown. But one is prejudiced and discriminating if they state what it is they believe, that it is a sin and it is wrong. The person recieving it will most likely take it as the christian is making themselves out to be superior and are not falling in step with the PC crowd. Now days even words are considered racist and discriminating therefore the person saying them are fair game for attack. How can this be handled or addressed? Everyone should have a right to speak their mind (maybe not act upon everything). Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O' Donnell (not where I got my screen name from by the way) are lesbian. I believe homosexuality is wrong even though they might be the nicest people on the earth. If the right opportunity arose to speak my mind about that issue I'd have to say what I believed to be true to myself. On the other hand I wouldn't be dragging them out into the streets demeaning them or anything despicable but in love I would have to say sorry can't support it. It bothers me that respect is a one way street when dealing with this whole pc issue. In our area many have been affected by it. Police, teachers, media, workplaces. Many good people taken down as crime and other social ills rise. The last days are here. only the strong will survive. I suppose I need to trust God more His Will will be accomplished, he will protect and reward accordingly. Looking at all thats happening scares the heck out of me though:(

Its sad to hear of all the loss suffered from miscarriages. What a devastating experience to live through Even though most here have knowledge of life after death and the hope that comes from it. The pain is very real I came very close to losing my first and was very concerned after that. They kept saying nature has a way of working things out. If you lose it you can try again type stuff. Made me want to kill them even though I know they were trying to help and prepare me for the possibilities. This was a precious being being not a mass of meaningless matter easily replaced. I made up in my mind if we did lose a child due to miscarriage or stillbirth (as we have a family history of) that we would celebrate it and mourn its loss just as I would any other person who lived and passed on. The child would have a name even if it was only a gender neutral one. We have old pictures of stillborn relative in a casket. While it seems kind of perverted to some. This was the only thing that relative had to remember them by. They dressed the child up in what would have been their christening outfit had they lived. This person was a part of the family even though they weren't there. It's really hard in the first few months though when loss occurs. May everyone whos experienced such painful hardships rejoice and look forward to the time when "Sunday Will Come"

My husband loves Axis and Allies too although he hasn't really played it in a long time. He doesn't really know anyone who's really in to it and it takes so long.

The problem with racism, discrimination, political correcteness and all such related terms today is that it has expanded to unreasonable levels. It seems to me that things were thrown into that terminology that never should be there. The terms have now become so broad its hard to know when someone has actually been harmed or just needs to get a grip. For example if someone interprets what I say the wrong way I can be labeled racist. Having had no intentions whatsoever to do so. Its just how they interpret it. Also the punishments for being labeled racist, harassing, discriminating and all that costs dearly. One can have their name ruined lose their job, be dragged through courts, etc. All from someones misunderstanding of what you said. It puts people on edge and does more to seperate people then pull people together. It in my opinion has become the new modern day witch hunt or has mentioned above MCCarthism. There's too much profit in crying discrimination. Its not trying to right a wrong or create greater understanding . No tooth for a tooth hear. I stand against racism and discrimination and feel it should be drawn out. I don't think we should be making ourselves better than one another and seeking to harm one another. Thats a two way street. One offended should not go after an offender for more than they should but rather with the attititude Father forgive them they know not what they do. Because if they harm you they really don't understand how valuable in the sight of God. He has the hairs on your head numbered! He will be holding them accountable. It all goes back to a closeness to God. As the Book of Mormn illustrated when people were obeying God there were no Nephite, Lamanitites...... they were able to work through their differences and did not have to war. Those who follow Christ know that they will be persecuted and discriminated against for His name sake. They don't have to ruthlessly pursue people but love and forgive as required. Its too bad the whole world doesn't have such understandings. There'd be a lot fewer instances of racism, discrimination...

Well they can all be of flesh and blood in the image and likeness of God. That doesn't mean they are incapable of being reached.Maybe not so much differences from us but different needs to comprehend truth. God has different ways of reaching his children to make sure they understand what it is they need to know. Whether they are more faithful or not. I don't know. Whether it be different learning styles who knows. We haven't seen Christ. We didn't live during His lifetime. He was on the earth right? We don't see either but we go on faith that he was here. How much farther of a strech is it really for them to comprehend that Christ was here? Maybe instead of having the saviour on their planet they were given a greater knowledge of our planet and whats going on in it? An illustration of this might be found within the LDS church. There are members of the church all over the world. Yet they know Utah and look to it. This is the center of the church. On the other hand if we were to ask Utah members about all the other countries and give them a quiz about the other countries and member information they probably wouldn't have a clue on many of them. So these other planets may know of earth because this is where Christ lived and died. Who knows maybe we are more advanced than the other planets? Looking throughout church history God reached out in many different ways. For instance we don't see the extreme miracles taking place that happened in the Bible on a daily basis today but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. With God ALL things are POSSIBLE

There will always be evil on the earth. So there will always be people who will seek to harm others for whatever reason. Prejudice goes in my mind onto the evil side of things. In some ways we will always be discriminatory, racist and prejudiced. For LDS being of the "True Church " or being a temple mormon/ born in the covenant member might make one feel or appear superior and others inferior. By todays standards God has been racist also. What do we do with Him? In His world Israels seed is the chosen and everyone else must be adopted into the house of Israel. Christ only went to them when he was on the earth and instructed His disciples to do the same. He almost refused helping a person that came to him and begged that she may be healed by pleading that even a master throws scraps unto the dogs. People are told not to marry out of the faith and in OT times guidelines were also very strict. Joseph Smith told to join no other faith because they were all wrong. Homosexuality not favored by God. Whole towns scripturally pegged as evil and destroyed.... It just seems like racism and prejudice can be found and there might be purposes, times and places for it. On the other hand we are called to be one and to work together as much as within our power. To not show ourselfs superior to another to harm or hurt another. Those who do , in my opinion are of the other side and by their works ye shall know them. The true intents of the heart made known. All secret places revealed. The one who faces a racist act needs to be careful they don't return the hatred or become prejudiced themselves. Just my thoughts.

No thats not the normal way I talk nor do most. However there might be instances where I might use it in a story, or to describe something , someone or event, to point out somebody to another person, or even help in the case I forget a persons name . Since I'm not the best with names I might say is that the one with or thats them with........... or looks like that and give distinguishing features. But that might very well be construed by someone as racist in our day and age. But I do that because it is what they look like or those are features they have. Not because I'm trying to create disharmony with others. I wouldn't begrude another for doing the same to me either. I do have a few distinguishing features which others have pointed out and have been bantered with about them but I take it all in stride. If you're looking for offense you'll find it. It all boils down to the Golden Rule. That is what needs to be preached and lived. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Not wait until you are treated good and then be nice to others. Love one another and forgive others.

Yes, how quickly we forget Amen and a testament to why we didn't choose the other side in the preexistance To greed and the mismanagement of funds. Thats probably why it won't happen. Since when does government try and cut out the beurocracy? The tax codes are so complicated especially if you have your own business or file all your deductions. Even the lawmakers who come up with the laws don't know all the ins and outs. Ahhh would be nice. The Lord was wise 10%. Nice, sweet and to the point :) -a-train

If only that were true. If that were the case there would be no afirmative action programs, quotas, pc police and constant NAACP thrieats. Race or other differences can be an assistive identifying factor when discussing or describing someone or a general group. It gives you a base to work from. There are certain traits that different groups or races or other differences tend to focus on whether chose to be admited or not. There is good and bad examples or generalities in each. I don't believe we should look unfairly down on another group because they are different nor do I think we should hide those differences. If there is bad stuff that should be gotton rid of then it can be taken care of and eliminated. But it will take not hiding behind the everyone is out to get me syndrome. Here on this site, for example, we have many different religions represented. I don't expect someone to hide what it is they believe who is not LDS nor do I wish to hide my beliefs but to give a reason why I believe as I do. As a latterday saint I feel there are certain things about LDS that would be useful for non members to understand. They need to be able to give a reason for their faith and to understand why LDS as a whole may not do the same things. Even though LDS don't see eye to eye all the time there are certain things that define LDS as a group that others don't have or believe in. For example knowledge of the preexistance, restoration etc. We believe in the Word of Wisdom, being chaste etc. Those are some good things to know to build general understanding with others not of the LDS faith. With that mutual understanding and respect built up it would be more likely that we wouldn't go back and forth hurting one another. We would all get along. It would be awful for us to come down on the non-LDS people and demean them for not being the same or acting out of misunderstanding as it would be for non-LDS to use derogatory remarks about us or do as some of the anti's do destroying our scriptures, dragging temple items through the streets etc. If we started mocking the prophets or destroying our sacred things then how can we be upset if they do the same? I believe the same principles can be used when dealing with racial or disabling or other issues too. But it takes people working together and not devisively. Acknowledging differences and learning to live the golden rule!

Racism was one of the issues , although there were other thoughts and issues in mind when starting this thread that could be discussed too. I don't think this issue is all race based that is one of the main reasons I started it. I think if you want to help discrimination of any kind you have to look at some of the other key issues in play here too. I feel more damage was created from the way things were handled than unifying people and working on ways of eliminating discrimination and racism. I highly question the firing of Imus and the motivations behind it. Epecially when, as expressed before the wording he used has been upheld by the leaders who now renounce it and its a popular acceptable art form. If anything it seems like reverse discrimination.Its the good and decent people who suffer out of this.

Actually, Fox said his medication made the shaking worse. So I guess two wrongs make a right, then. I have no problem if Limbaugh attacks Fox's politcal views. I don't agree with many of them myself. He didn't though. He went below the belt and attacked his disability. His political views should be seperated from the disability. Is there no such thing as compassion anymore? I can't help but think Rush went overboard. Normally I would agree that political views should be seperated from the disability. But in this case Michael J Fox got involved in the political ring over disability issues/stem stell research using his disability as a basis not on anything else. Therefore he can't be totally suprised if someone calls him on it. Its like a female beating the tar out of a guy and then saying you can't touch me I'm a woman. The woman deserves what she gets when she starts it in my opinion. There should be some ability to redress on the other party. Rush has always been one to counteract inconsistancies. In the political fight all holes barred.