rosie321

People are usually quicker to remember the depressing times more. Probably because it does such a great job shaping them.Have you covered various family members and life events such as birth, marriages, reunions, parties and such things that happened over the years? What about friends? What stories can she tell about them? Was she involved with a church or some organizations? What things did she do there? What kind of people did she meet? Where has she lived? How have things changed? What might have been there that is no longer? Don't know if you've talked about any of those yet..........

A-train I have to disagree with you here. Yes many times our opposition is of our own making and does serve as a reminder to repent or to better remove ourselves from harmful situations. But I don't think this is always the case we will always face opposition. Prime example-christ. What did he need to repent of? Yet look at what he endured. Then there is Christs words of saying that we will be hated for His name sake. Blessed are ye that are persecuted.... etc. While you make some valid observations. I don't think the only reason people face opposition is because they've done something wrong.

I can truly appreciate your curiousity and I'm sure Heavenly Father would not be upset that you want to know more about Him. I like to go in non mission essential areas too. As a concerned sister though let me urge as above caution when doing so. There are lots of traps in the less traveled areas. Its easy to get lost or distracted. I believe thats why anti's thrive in those areas. It might be possible to learn much on the non mission paths yet never really understand and complete the mission God would have. I also believe that some of the non mission paths may keep you going forever since all the answers you seek may not be readily available. If the answers were necessary to us at this time they would probably be made more clearer. This is not to say though that Heavenly Father will not answer your diligent asking in His time I'm sorry to lay pressure on you to go to the temple if you are not ready. The word temple worthy bothers me because its like who is? I didn't want you to miss another step in your progress because of it. It takes strength of character to say no I'm not ready when you're not for whatever reason. Its obvious to me now that you have weighed this heavily and recieved counsels regarding it. When you do go I'm certain you will be a stronger temple going mormon for it and will value your commitments all the more. Because you waited until you were ready. I'm really am glad you took the last post as playful banter. That was the spirit that the first part was given in. Xhenli, Thanks for the reference. I guess some times I fell like all the valleys, islands, desserts, plains and forests have been discovered so scripture and a greater understanding of G-d and his ways is the only frontier left. I have been to Alaska "the last frontier" state, got to tell you they got a Wal-mart so they got it all. "Truth is a sphere" as the saying goes and all the facts that make up that sphere are connected. So if you have ever watched the TV show jeopardy they aren't answering random pieces of information they are over the course of many seasons of TV programming filling in the sphere. Does that make any sense? (I tend to ramble)

Sorry you had such a horrible experience . Its unfortunate that happened. Especially after all your preparations. You've really been looking forward to this time . I don't know why they were so irresponsible. Here's a cyber kick for them :) I hope you try again, and do let them know how much it bothered you. They need a Blessed learning experience:)

. Following the will of God is always the best choice . What can she give you that God can't? Who knows God's probably got a decent, unmarried, faithful Latterday Saint women already lined up for you. You just won't be able to recieve her if you're hanging around where you shouldn't be. You didn't know it was Ok. Now you do. She should have but she wasn't faithful to her commitments. I think you should find other sources for LDS information. Stop trusting someone that is not faithful. The spirit cannot be ok with her sins and therefore will not be able to reside with her. You can see that what she is doing isn't right. Don't let your personal feelings and care for her stand in your way of doing what's right. Flee from temptation I'm glad you came to this site. There are a lot of great people who can help you. We're routing for you!

I'm glad that you've recognized that what you are doing was not right. That conviction helps you know the spirit is working. Hopefully you will continue to learn and grow in the gospel while listening to the spirit. If you know its wrong don't do it. Repent and follow Gods commands. As in above post, you can't change your past. But you can repent and make sure you're future doesn't turn out the same (or worse). Get healed of your past. Then go and sin no more:) No, I'm not living with her. She moved out when she rejoined the church Yes, she was separated, but not yet divorced. She' still not divorced. My feelings are all over the place now since I realised what we were doing was wrong. Also as I said, we were having a lot of difficulties in our relationship. I do love her, but at the same time I know I cannot covet someone else's wife....what's more important? My feelings or God's commandment? Yes I am willing to give her up to follow the will of God.

Loved the posts. Great advice.

Heres a few questions for you Are you still living with her? She was married but seperated? Is she divorced now? What are your feelings for her? Are you willing to give her up if called upon to follow the will of God? Some thoughts Hanging out with a married women (other than your wife) is not appropriate. But the knowledge you are accountable to before you were a member of the church and accepted the gospel is different than now. You are called out from that life that you had before and cleansed in the baptismal waters. YOu are also called to sin no more. I guess the big question is are you living appropriately and chaste now or within the bonds of marriage? Is she completely divorced? If not I'd defineately stay far away from her. I'm a little concerned with you being with her at all seeing how little she seems to value her commitments. How did you get baptized if you weren't living being obedient in that area? Were you honest beforehand in your baptismal interview? It seems you are troubled. I encourage you to read the Miracle of Forgiveness and would ask that you be very careful now about the choices you make. Speak to your bishop about this right away to help direct you more. Pray to Heavenly Father. Seperate from her for a time if you are not married and just dating and focus on your commitment to the gospel. Your relationship with God should be #1 Many new members do go through a period of trials after joining but due to the unique circumstances surrounding your joining that probably added to it. You very well may be experiencing some extra hardships. Wickedness never was happiness. I don't think that it was wise to date a married woman for many reasons. One of the more selfish reasons for you is how can you trust your relationship with her or God if she did not live up to the commitments she made to either? If she did not make clear to you what her standards were? If you're looking for an everything is alright for the past I don't think it can be given by man. Whats done is done. On the other hand you really have to be careful what your future choices are. You can change them. Hopefully you'll do it under the direction of God himself. Your past can't be changed it is written in stone. Use it to humble yourself and lead you to repent and find direction. The future , however, is another story. If you want a happy future follow Gods plan. There may be some rough riding in the beginning but in the end you won't be sorry. If you continue to make poor choices, though it may seem easier but you will in the long run be only troubled and sorry. May you find and follow the right path. CTR Brother

Ok LT had to bring the temple again. You are of the house of Levi-correct? Don't you belong at the temple? :) You are looking for answers-correct? Where have you been encouraged to go? ( To the temple that you might find them there). You have expressed an unworthiness to go. How can you get worthy to get to the temple or are you actually there? What or who is keeping you? Would God really want to keep you from there? Where might God reveal more indepth doctrinal things to you? I'd think in the presence of people who strongly believe the same things. Where in the LDS might you be able to talk freely about the most sacred of things? The temple maybe? I'm seeing a word come to my mind for you. It starts with a T. Let me think E M P L E :) TEMPLE . (just had to have a little fun here- please don't get upset over this or take the above part too seriously. I have thought the same way as you until someone had the sense to show me differently and I really considered both sides and the costs of going or not) I also heard a very staggering statistic. I really don't know how accurate it is but it was something like less than 25 percent of the church membership holds a current temple recommend. Thats a hard number for me to take in if true. ( I really hope I heard incorrectly) I wonder how many feel themselves unworthy unnecessarily. Or those who maybe have fallen into some kind of sin and just hopelessly give up altogether . Maybe they should check in with God and see what he thinks. What is the cost for not doing the work? Of not being a temple going people? What impact might that have on the individual member and others? A ) Is this a topic better left alone? I don't know can you handle it? Can you handle not having a perfect knowledge right now? Can you handle recieving greater understandings line upon line while not forsaking the gospel basics? B ) Am I crazy? We are all a strange and peculiar people:) C ) Will the LDS HQ dispatch men in suits all with the name Elder Smith to come get me in the night? YOu better watch out-they're coming for you lol They will finish their LDS brainwashing D ) There is an answer out there- there is we just have to wait to see it and comprehend it. Be careful about going to graduate school before you hit all the grades beforehand:)

The Pearl of Price really gives me greater understanding here. I think a huge problem comes in with our mortal tendancies and comprehensions. Its hard to see God opening His kingdom and giving all and yet God still remaining a God that we will respect and honor. To even think about that seems to put limits on God. To even think of God once being a man can be a stumbling block. God will always be God to us though . Just as our parents will always be our parents even when we become one ourselves. God has promised and given us much. We are to be one with Him even as Christ is one. The possibilities of what God offers is more than we can understand in this life and still live. I think the reason people don't discuss the finer points is that theres enough to do down here on earth now to follow Christ and His gospel. Dwelving into some of the more techical aspects can lead us off track. Our minds have enough handling the basic gospel principals. The questions like you asked are going to probably be important to us one day. But for now just knowing and following that which we should do is important. I can appreciate what you are doing not going to the temple. But some questions to ask yourself-Will you ever be fully worthy? What is holding you back? I think that saying that we are are own worst critics may apply here in your case. Think about it and pray about it. Heavenly Father knows we all fall short of what He wants of us. That is why repentance is so important-even to temple mormons:) Could you be sinning by not going? What about your ancestors who maybe waiting for someone to give them a chance? You may be keeping them waiting. Also maybe you need to be able to experience the closeness to God that you may find at the temple. Will you rob yourself and others? This is all between you and God of course. Maybe your not worthy but then again.... In my experience the one who acknowledges their unworthiness in the manner you have is sometimes the more worthy. They do not take sacred things lightly.

Online attacks can be more aggressive in a way than personal interactions. People can say or do whatever and are not tempered by anything. They never see the person they are going up against. Never really have to have a back and forth conversation. Never see the pain they create. They can throw out all their animosity at a screen and drop their garbage and run. With no care at all as to the aftermath. Its easier to walk away from a screen then another person though.

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Its good that you want to stand up for truth. But it looks like its taking you down in the process. How can that be good? "Seek first to obtain..." Obtain a strong testimony yourself. Don't go out seeking battles. Let the spirit show you where you need to go and do. There are many people that don't care to have the misconceptions cleared up. They thrive on it and profit off of it. I really think thats why God told his disciples to share the message and if they weren't recieved to leave. To protect yourself. What good is it if you go on there and allow yourself to be knocked down and your testimony shattered?

I think Ben pointed out something good. Don't go places you know where the LDS are bashed. Don't seek out such situations. Its inevitable you will come across people who dislike LDS anywhere you go. But its probably best to avoid situations where you know you will come in contact with such people and limit contact. It will just drag you down and promote no good. No one needs to hear over and over again that their beliefs are false, that they're being foolish or misled. It doesn't sound like an environment where you can do good. So do as Christ told his disciples shake the dust off your feet and leave.

Ultimately, I guess from the perpective you would be coming from the answer would be considered yes. There are some key doctrines that LDS know that make it more complicated then just that three letter word though. . 1st only mormons able to be saved? Well ultimately only those who do the will of the Father and follow Christ will be saved. So if the LDS contains the most truth as restored through God then yes. If there are ordinances needed like baptism etc that need to be done through the proper authority, Gods and His established priesthood , then yes. Where else would you get that? I'm certain though that not everyone that is LDS will be saved though. There will be many who will probably be very surprised in the last days. On the other hand, it is believed that everyone will come to know. So many ood, non LDS people will be made aware of all the truths and will have every opportunity. All will be worked out there if it really is true. If you're not LDS looking at good, strong LDS members you probably would see them just as another christian believer with some eccentric ways. 2nd writings and revelations of smith cruical to Salvation. Once again yes. Joseph Smith was just an instrument in the hand of the Lord to restore lost truths. "For this is eternal life to know God the Eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ". The teachings as restored via Joseph Smith really show us more of God and His Son. They help to clarify who they are and are necessary for us to really follow God and obey Him. They clear up a lot of differing views on some key doctrinal points. Some of the important restored doctrines Joseph Smith taught. God- view on trinity ( three seperate entities yet one) God- we are created in His Image Salvation-do the will of the father Personal revelation Priesthood Authority Organization- prophets........ Temple ordinances- the eternal nature of families Binding of generations together Gathering of 12 tribes of Israel............................................ ..........................................................................................

You have a lot of good and deep questions. Most could fill up volumes so these answers are by no means all inclusive and are based on my own knowledge, learning and experiences. Let me strongly encourage you to continue to read, pray, learn and seek out. My questions are the following (and I apologize if they are blunt, but I think it necessarry for my situation). I. Mormonism Doctrine as it compares to 'Traditional Chrisitan Doctrine". (Namely...what exactly do each see Jesus as?) a.) In Mormon tradition, is Jesus 'a part of God?' In other words, while I understand that Mormonism does not agree with the Trinity doctrine (which, to be honest, I do not know if I fully agree with myself), does it beleive that Jesus is one with God? Or, are Jesus and God two separate, distinct entities? (Or is there another way of looking at it that I haven't mentioned?) If so, if Jesus at all equal to God, or is he lesser? This is an area that can fill volumes. There have been some really good posts already on the trinity here on this site, I don't want to redo whats already been said there. Let me encourage you to do a topic search. It is such an important LDS doctrine that you really should look furthur into it. In a tiny nutshell, the LDS believes that they are seperate and distinct entities working towards one common purpose. Jesus Christ did the will of His Father. We are called to do the same and to be one. b.)Traditional Protestantism holds the belief that one must hold a 'personal relationship' with Christ. I know this is a rather ambiguous concept, but nevertheless is is wideley held and preached in protestant churches. When I was searching this site, I did not see any reference to personal relationships, and was wondering what was the Mormon church's ideas about such relationships? Are they necessary? Are they possible? LDS do believe in having a personal relationship with God. Relationships are the basis of the faith. We pray to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. We trust that He will hear our prayers and will communicate to us via the Holy Ghost. We follow the example of christ and follow Gods will. God is not this supernatural entity that we can not know. We are created in His image. As stated in above posts we can have our own testimony (aka working relationship) with God. We have deepened relationships with others here on earth too. There is the church leaders who God has put into place to help us. We have strengthened family relationships because of gospel knowledge. We treat people as brothers and sisters. Have eternal marriages, baptisms and sealings which carry our relationships into the eternal realms. LDs is all about relationships given and ordained by God. We just need to tune in:) c.) Was Jesus ever married? And, not to bring the discussion to the Da Vinci, code, but if he was, was it to Mary Magdalene? Was he? Scriptures do not really speak of this. Opinions vary on it. Is it important to our salvation right now? Somehow I think if it was we would know for sure the answer to this. As a female it would be interesting if He was and to see the dynamic between his wife/ves and see how they handled their relationship. To see a marriage role model. I think the marriage Christ had that is most importantly emphasized though is his marriage to the church. That is the model that we are to pay attention to know and should be following. All the other stuff right now is just curiosity. II. Regarding 'Salvation' a). Does Mormonism hold that only Mormons are able to be saved? Are the writings and revelations of Smith crucial to one's salvation, or does Mormonism more identify with the " If you Believe in Christ, do your best to adhere to his teachings, you are saved." "For it is by grace ye are saved after all that you can do. " We are called to do the will of our Father in Heaven (God). Our shortcomings and weaknesses will be taken into account. LDS believe in living the gospel and coming knowing God here on earth. To follow and obey. Salvation is not a one time prayer but a learning and growing in the grace of God. "Throwing off sins that so easily beset us" B). (Forgive my ignorance on this question, I am in no way trying to be disrespectful) What is it to be saved? I have heard of the belief that, in Mormonism, when one dies (assuming one is saved), one will inheret a planet. I vaguely remember hearing of farming, but if I remember correctly, this is where the idea that families will remain together for eternity. So, is this an accurate description of what Mormons beleive heaven is? Or, let me phrase it in a more direct manner: What is heaven? I would appreciate as many details as possible. I think the focus is not so much on after death but now. What are we doing now. No one really knows for sure all the details of what will happen in the after life. It is beyond our full comprehension. We are told that families can be together and sealed for eternity. In the New Testament we are told that Christ is going to help prepare mansions. As far as the afterlife the verse in Corinthians says "Eye hath not seen, ear hath not heard all the Lord hath prepared for those that love him applies. I don't know for sure how all the details will be worked out but I do know that God has made many promises. It will be something that will be good and worth going through all the trials that this life throws our way. c).Does Mormonism have any similarities to traditional protestantism in what it believes about Heaven? Or is this part of what Smith clarifies in the Restoration? Details are scarce about heaven/Celestial kingdom but there are some similarities between other faiths. Heaven will be wonderful and holy. A place where we really want to go and will be miserable if we don't make it. I think the most profound part of what Smith clarified about afterlife is the restoration of baptisms for the dead, the knowledge that families can be together, and that the family unit is important. By seeing our family as an eternal unit we can strengthen our ties here on earth and bind ourselves to relatives who have passed on. It also shows us the need to diligently shape our lives to the will of God and to accept His Son. To follow the example set or we cannot return. The way is narrow. There is a deep commitment that goes along with being a follower of God/christ. But that commitment will not go unrewarded. d.) (this sort of goes along with question a. ) Is church membership a requirement for salvation? Does excommunication imply that one is no longer saved? (and...if whoever reads this knows, is this what catholics believe to be true as well?) Church membership a requirement for salvation? This is a complex answer to explain to someone with limited LDS understandings. I guess if your an LDS believer for the most part the direct answer would be yes. The church is the restored church of Christ and has the most truth compiled into one place. It is believed to be Christ's church so to reject his church would be to reject christ. On the other hand everyone will have adequate opportunity to hear, learn and understand. There may be those who have led good lives who have never really had the chance to learn and understand. They will be taught and will ultimately accept or reject. Everyone will go where they choose. Nowdays you have to do something serious to get excommunicated. Some of the early church leaders were excommunicated and returned. Excommunication can actually be a good thing and just temporary. It does not have to be final unless you choose it to be. God cannot let people continue in their sin or look upon it with the least bit of allowance. It is believed the church as a whole represents Gods establishment here on earth. So the leaders have to come down on things that may hurt people or turn them to harmful things. Excommunication can let people see where they are at and give them an opportunity to repent. While I've never seen it to happen, if there was to occur excommunication due to unrighteous leadership I'm certain all that will be worked out at the final judgement. God will not send someone to a place they do not belong just because there was unrighteous judgement passed. III. Miscellaneous a.) I have heard rumors of what happens in the ceremonies for a temple reccommend mormon. Can you give me any insight into any of these ceremonies, the purposes of them, or any other information? This does not really apply to my overall quest, but rather is just a matter I am curious of. The specifics of what goes on inside the temple are not discussed outside by LDS. Temples are a good outward symbol of LDS inward faith. They give us a holy place to go to worship God away from the world. One must spiritually prepare themselves to go and commit themselves to greater live the teachings of Christ. In order to go inside you need a temple recommend. This is done to help us assess where we are at and our commitment. Being "temple worthy" provides a personal ruler to measure our personal growth and commitment. This is important because not only will we be drawing closer to God certain ordinances are performed such as baptisms of the dead, eternal marriages and sealings. These are not to be taken lightly but rather with great diligent concern. This is why temple specifics aren't discussed to keep the temples holy unto the Lord. If you want to find out what goes inside the best thing to do would be to go and see for yourself:) b.) I heard, and again please excuse me if I am way off or sound blatantly ignorant, that in Mormonism, one of the lesser known doctrines even among many devout Mormons) is that God (or Jehova) is from the planet Kolob. Is this a widely held beleif? Is this a correct statement? Pearl of Great Price. c) Finally, I know that the Mormon community is fighting more and more to be recognized as a Christian sect. Doctrinal differences aside, does the Mormon church believe that Mormons, catholics, and protestants are all brothers and sisters in Christ? Is this a move to gain more acceptance from the rest of the CHristian community? Do Mormons WANT to be accepted by the rest of the Christian Community? And finally, do Mormons accept other non-mormons who are members of the rest of the christian community? Another loaded question :) LDS is christian. It believes in Christ and seeks to follow Him. Many non LDS faiths teach and practice many great things and do a lot of good. Mormons love to see Christian principles practiced. It is believed we are all brothers and sisters. Most non-LDS christian faiths say that Mormons are not christian and therefore attack it. I think LDS want to stand up and get the truth out there that they do believe in Christ. He is their Lord and Saviour. He loved us enough to die for us, rise again and set His righteous example. A lot of controversy has come from the origional revelations Joseph Smith had to join no other church for they were all wrong and also the fact that LDS have isolated themselves from others because of the believe of being the true church. If LDS church has the most truth on earth today why would you join another? The LDS church has the structure and organization as Christ set up and doctrines of God as has been revealed throughout history. So the LDS does not need to turn to other faiths for that acceptance. This can be offensive to other faiths and leaves them probably feeling very snubbed. LDS are trying to build understanding. So yes LDS want to be known as Christian because its teachings revolve around Christ and it bears its name. But it cannot go and say that the doctrines and organization of the others is true even though they do many good things. They were not restored by Christ. They only have "pieces" of the truth. The LDS is either just another denomination or it is true. Hope this helps a little

-you are doing that. Says who? I see quite a pattern forming.Are you doing what you think is right? Isn't fire science a field that you are drawn to? Maybe I'm incorrect, but it looks like from the outside you are on the right track but just need to be patient to see how it will all come together.

No one can tell you what you should do:(. Here's some things that have helped me and that might help you in your situation though: First have faith and trust that God has your best interests in mind. That as he cares for the sparrow so he cares for you. That he will lead you through all the twists and turns. This is not always easy to do but it will help you get through difficult times. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things. We are called to experiment (Alma 32:21-) . Experiments do not always go well:( If every experiment was good then you'd never be able to know the limits or the true validity of something. Thus it is with us and our decisions sometimes. We are stretched so we can know and understand the limits of our faith. We don't always recieve the witness until after the trial of our faith. So you may have to struggle in an area for awhile and maybe even at times not even know for sure if what we are doing is right. As PC said he thought it was right to become a chaplain but once he made the decision things did not get easier. They got harder. Things always are easier when looking back. Faith does not mean things will always run without bumps. Sometimes we are tested to see what we can do. From all that I've learned we can do nothing to mess things up beyond God's capability to fix. I'm with you in that I want to do things right the first time. I don't want to mess things up at all either. But we are called to progress and learn to faith walk on our own. That means lots of bumps and falls for some of us. But look at the lessons taught after a mess up. Faith, forgiveness, humbleness..... Be careful not to rob yourself of those lessons. Secondly, ask, as it appears you have done. Pray to know. Seek knowledge. Third. Question and list. In your case what areas are you interested in? What skills do you have? What are your limitations.................. Ask all the questions you can. Take nothing for granted in the areas you're struggling with. Sometimes the simple act of listing things down and questioning even the most basic things helps me to understand and find answers. I've been spoken to and been led through the lists and questions. I have made changes at times according to them. Changes at the time I did not understand or would have taken otherwise but have helped me down the road. Since your married take into account your family situation. What would be best for everyone longterm or temporarily short term? In the case of your Catholic wife what would be respectful of her? Maybe going out to Utah for instance would be too much for her and would breed more hatred for the church and you then love. On the otherhand maybe it would be the thing to lead her to want to become LDS and thus create a greater unity between the two of you. I can't give you the answers there. But these things should be considered. Fourth. Be patient and wait for the Lords timing. Are you under as tight of a time frame as you think? Are there temporary options open to you that you might not have considered that might help you out in the longterm? Are you thinking and acting in your will or Gods? I don't know if this applies in your case but say for example if you need a job, finances are tight maybe a temporary job or 2 somewhere will suffice until the next door opens. By taking a temporary job you can create more job history and maybe open the door to some connections even if its not in the area you are hoping for now. Fifth. Be thankful for whatever you recieve, however minor it may seem. Gratitude really draws out the good. Selfish expectations always seem to drive it away. Sixth. Be diligent. If you ask God for bread will he give you a stone instead? (verse in NT). These are just some different tools that have helped me to better see what I should be doing and why and have helped me to get beyond moments where I am stuck. Hopefully there's something there you can use too. Is it a bad thing that you have such a broad base? From the jobs you've had it looks like you've learned some pretty good things that will be helpful anywhere. From what I've seen in the job market today there is no set career or job. The more flexible you are and experienced the better off you are. It looks like there are some underlying skills and interests there that have carried forth between the jobs. Tie them together. List them down. This might help direct you to your ultimate career goal or job interest. You might be able to find a company that will allow you to grow within it. It sounds like you are one that likes change and learning. Find a company with lots of room for growth that you can constantly be challenged. Maybe even start your own business eventually? In the meantime do not diminish what you've done. From your history it looks like you've picked up a lot of valuable skills and information. God can use your skills not only in your career but in other life situations too.

Many very good things said already. Marriage is supposed to be a union of man and women. The relationship is used as an analogy to the relationship between Christ and the church. It is a giving and sacrificial relationship. Both are to help people and grow in love together. It is the best relationship on earth to signify the oneness with God. In the LDS church the commitement is more serious as the marriage relationship is forever as is Christs love for the church. Therefore, divorce by the church as a whole would not be encouraged. Nor should it be by any church believing in the sacredness of the commitment. Despite at times the possible need for it. There are allowable instances given in scriptures for it and ultimately judgement lies with the spouses and God as to whether it was justified or not. Whether due diligence was given or people were acting out of selfishness. But the leaders cannot say do whatever. They need to emphasize this holy relationship and not encourage its breakup. They have to reach the majority with their words and actions. People really should consider who they are marrying beforehand and do all that is within their power to make it work. Not just look for the easy out. This doesn't seem to be happening. In our area there are more members that have been divorced at least once then have not and some who got into circumstances where they were never married at all. While we are not to stand in judgement because we don't know what has really caused this one cannot help but wonder why there are such high divorce numbers in the church. People need to stop and look why it is going on and what they can personally do to stop the divorce rates from climbing. Is this really what the church should be doing with the knowledge we have been given? Is this the example that should set before the world? Get married, get divorced. That eternal relationships and commitments can just be thrown aside? Its hard for me to believe that all of these divorces are really justifiable if people were to be honest with themselves. This verse comes to mind -Mat 5:13-16 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. Are we losing our saltiness when it comes to the sacredness of the marriage covenant?

Forgiveness is something all should do but enabling sin to continue and grow is something we should not. For us here on earth wisdom and help is needed to know which is which. The best source for it is spirit led.

Anyone into Everquest? Don't play games much myself (LDS talk takes up all my extra time:) but I know a number of people who are into that. They use this wierd language and all when talking about it..... :)

Love it!

Be safe! You always have such insightful information and thoughtful ideas. You will be missed. I must say I miss some of the other friends here too. Ray, Jason, Snow, the top posters, for instance had such a unique and special way. No one quite like them. :)

Red Ruby , don't you know we just can't cast our brothers and sisters into the outer realms? BTW Its too late. You've been here. Everyone knows you. Like it or not you'll never be fully removed or forgotton. Too many people already know your name. *******************LDS HIDDEN SECRET REVEALED**************************************** LDS spend all their time hunting down people who've escaped full brainwashing. People are not let go easily. You will be hunted, you will be found if you try to leave:) Every effort will be made to force you to stay where you want to be despite driving the other members crazy. After all the church needs all the tithe money it can get. Right? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously though if you hate the LDS church so bad why did you sign up in the first place if you couldn't stand it? To cause trouble? Find it didn't work? Maybe your punishment should be to forever have the name LDS talk stamped on your brain . You can be non LDS and still enjoy this site. Anti's and troublemakers might not enjoy it so much though. Admit it. Theres a part of you that just likes it here though. That's why you just had to drop in and check and finding your name still on just had to make a post.

[ Because they can fit families! Because of how the crash dummies come out even when wearing the helmets . Which would you really rather crash in in a car or on a motorcycle?