DevtheWind

I love some of the rated R movies I have seen. Schindler's List, King's Speech, American Sniper, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, and Braveheart, among many others.
 
On the contrary, some of the pg-13 movies I have seen were complete and utter garbage for my eyes. Like the Transformers series. Goodness.
 
Anyway, I gave up on caring what others really thought about me, I found many just tried to guilt trip me into doing what they wanted.

It's a selfie, obviously.

Becca you are wasting your time arguing with him, I been there done that. Any perspective other then his is wrong and he is not shy about trying to find fault in others opinions.

And sometimes we need private family time.  If we find ourselves only finding family time through church activities we need to re-evaluate.

Well then I guess I'm a pretty selfish person.

You guys need to learn a magical word: "No".
 
"No, I won't go to the barbecue this week.  I want to spend the night with my spouse"
"No, I won't go to addiction recovery class.  I need to stay home and rest."
"No, I won't let you make me feel guilty for taking care of myself and my family."

I love some of the rated R movies I have seen. Schindler's List, King's Speech, American Sniper, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, and Braveheart, among many others.
 
On the contrary, some of the pg-13 movies I have seen were complete and utter garbage for my eyes. Like the Transformers series. Goodness.
 
Anyway, I gave up on caring what others really thought about me, I found many just tried to guilt trip me into doing what they wanted.

As for movie choices, I flip it over and next to the movie rating is a content explanation.  First thing I look for is nudity/sexual content.  I also use this site:  http://www.kids-in-mind.com/r/index.htm
 
A movie like Saving Private Ryan, or better yet, American Sniper, Band of Brothers, Blackhawk Down inspires me.

I have a problem with this premise.  This is the world we walk around in now.  You are getting that out in the world when you go to the store etc.  I don't have a problem with the idea of not adding to the decadence around us, but the way you are stating this is implying only through media is this a problem.  You (general you, not jojo you) should be teaching your children to treat inappropriate dress/content correctly no matter what the medium.  Media is not the only source of the problem.  Teaching correct principles to our children is the best course, with appropriate follow up when exposure to these sources happen.

I like to judge my movies the same way I try to judge people. On the content of their character as opposed to the label on the box.

Brother, you say it with practically every reply.  You outright called my perspective silly, and my perspective is that people who go inactive because they're not feeling comfortable or welcome in Church shouldn't be written off.  If you think that's silly then you've proven my point.  If you want to refine your comments and agree that they shouldn't be written off then that's great.  I would hope you'd feel that way, but that definitely isn't coming across in your replies.
 
So if you choose to be offended by me calling you on that then by all means go ahead if it helps you.  I stand by what I said.
 
Now since this is getting more and more contentious I'll excuse myself from this thread to go enjoy my weekend.  Have a  good one, everybody  :)

I think you are correct in this assessment. However, I also think there are lesser and greater reasons for Church attendence. If people go to Church with the expectation to be welcomed as a sister or brother and spiritually fed, that is reasonable. If they go to Church because they expect those things, that is perhaps not as good. If they go to Church with the firm conviction that it is where they belong and with the determination to find spiritual nourishment and provide brotherly or sisterly companionship, I think that is best.
 
I also don't think TFP was writing anyone off. I am afraid this conversation has begun generating more heat than light.

TFP,
That is what many members of the church believe that the purpose of the church is, yet that may not be the reason that a particular individual is a member.  If you are willing to write them off because they don't hold to that same ideal then I suppose that is your right to do so.  All I am saying is that when we tell individuals that this is why they should attend church and their need or reason for belonging is different we should not be surprised when they choose to disassociate. 

People like yourself whose response comes across as "Well it's their own fault for being too weak to carry on through."

If only everybody was a clone we wouldn't have these problems.

Another thought I have had on the matter:  
 
Why do people stop going to church?  
Because their needs are not met.  We have had some discussion in this very thread about what those needs are.  For some it is social, for others spiritual, a sense of community, an ability to commune with the divine, the atonement, a testimony of a living prophet, revealed scripture, and a host of other reasons.  
 
I would like to hypothesize that the reason why an individual stops attending is because their needs (whatever those are) are no longer being met by attendance at church.  We can belittle individuals because their testimony isn't as strong as ours, isn't the same as ours, or isn't rooted in quite the same way ours is, but if the church isn't meeting their needs they will stop coming.  It really is that simple.   Now whether or not the church SHOULD address those needs is another question entirely.  But the reason people stop coming through the doors on Sunday is the same reason they stop shopping at Home Depot and switch to Menards.  The other place better meets their perceived needs...it could be price, it could be customer service, it could be location or any number of other things.  
 
We can blame the customer all we like.  We can chalk it up to them being offended, not being really converted, being influenced by bad advertising or anti-mormon websites etc., but if you want them to come back through those doors next Sunday then we better identify what their needs are and work to address those.  
 
My $.02

If people were so great at that level of strength and faith completely on their own, then church is a waste of time anyway.

That's exactly what people do.  They absolve themselves of having to be introspective by laying blame elsewhere and the problem goes on.  Having responsibility fixes nothing if one doesn't acknowledge it.
 
Thanks for the snark, by the way.  Why bother trying to understand someone else's perspective when you can just use a little sarcasm to dismiss it, eh? 

I have to apologize. When I read your post it made me chuckle. Then I started to feel guilty and remembered that, had I read this post ten years ago when my child was 14 and announced that she was no longer a Mormon and didn't believe in anything, I would have been crying before I finished your post.
Yea, we went through the same thing. And we took it waaay too seriously. And we learned that everyone has to eventually learn for themselves that the gospel is true, that the Lord lives, that Jesus is the Christ. And the process is rarely linear and always messy.
Some details that we learned that you might find useful.
1. In spite of raising our children in a gospel centered home, we were shocked (over and over again) to learn just how little she actually knew about the gospel. She "knew" lots and lots of tidbits and details she had gleaned from anti-Mormons but she didn't actually know the gospel.
2. We got more mileage out of the standards that she grew up with than out of the doctrines we taught her. The world that she was attracted to followed none of the standards that the Church teaches (modesty, chastity, Word of Wisdom, etc.) and her discomfort with those things did more to prompt her return than did any specific doctrine (worldly doctrine or gospel doctrine).
3. Time. Give it time. Lots of time. It's been 10 years and this past summer she decided all by herself that she wanted her life to be focused on the gospel that she barely knew. She reached out to the missionaries to come school her on the basics. She started paying tithing and fasting and reading and praying.
4. Nothing mattered more than for her to know that her parents love her. Anguish over her on your own time. When she's around it needs to be all smiles and hugs. She knows good and well that you pray for her every night with tears steaming. She doesn't need to have that rubbed in her face.
And for the parent, not you, who has actually lost a child to world and is beyond hoping to see them return there is some little solace in remembering that Ezra Taft Benson has a son who is a staunch anti-Mormon. So did Joseph Smith. And so does our Heavenly Father.

Fear less for his soul, and accept that his journey is his alone because of the most important principle of God's power --- agency.      If he were my son, I would tell him that it is hard to prove things about faith false, just like it is hard to prove them true empirically.   I would tell him that I'd read the CES letter and disagreed that they do what he claims they do.   I would tell him that in our family we attend church every week, we do not have to believe anything, we do not have to  participate, but we do sit in church respectfully,  behave appropriately.   I'd tell hm that when he turns 18 he can chose the church he wants to attend, or move out and not go to church (which would make you sad). 
 
I would not require he attend scouts, but I would ask his quorum leaders to make sure he was invited to every social function, and protected from ridicule of others for his beliefs.
 
I would tell him that when it was his turn to do FHE lesson, he was free to teach a value principle that he wanted to teach, so long as it was helpful to your family closeness, and not teaching against gospel principles.   I would also point out that the Gospel of Jesus Christ incorporates all truth of all kinds, and that means that if he is seeking truth and you are seeking truth, you are both going to end up believing the same things when both of you know and understand all truth.  (It is important that he understands that lots of scientific things people once thought were truth have since been shown not to be true).
 
Fear for him less, love him more in ways that encourage him to stay close because he knows you will love him no matter who he is or what he believes.   To the limited extent you have any influence in it, accept and encourage good friends with high standards.   Teach him about the atonement and how it actually works and that God accepts his personal best, however distant that is from objective perfection, plus quick repentance.   Involve him in service to others.
 
And understand that when children lose belief it may be because he has been abused, or is gay, or knows someone who has beem demeaned or judged by a leader, or endured too much judgmetn and hellfire you will do what I say from parents,  or have a porn or masturbation problem, or committed some sin he thinks makes it impossible for him to make it to the celestial kingdom no matter how he tries (because he has tried unsuccessfully), or something else that interferes with his own ability to believe in God, or his ability to believe he is worthy of or capable to be everything that is expected in teh church.   I'm not saying you challenge him on any of those points, I'm suggesting you not make it a parent child authorty challenge or a worthiness issue.   I'm suggesting parents make every interaction with him as close ot how Christ sees him and how He would nuture and lift and serve him, so that he does have experience with the spirit of God.

...instead pray for him to be touched by the spirit and find his relationship with Jesus Christ, This will lead him back to the church where the true Gospel teachings are being taught.
 
A Missionary in my ward said this a few months ago in sacrament..."We convert people to the Gospel of Jesus Christ not the Mormon Church."

Way to tear down an organization that is actually doing a TON of good and has helped many of people.

There is nothing wrong with your son, I wish us members would stop casting a doom and gloom scenerio on every person that doesnt come to church.
 
On the positive side Im assuming you raised him up in primary and baptised him at eight? That is superb, at 14 he is making his own choices and you are witnessing the beautiful plan of salvation in action with all its free agency.
 
Sit back, love the physical human son that you gave life to, continue to go to the temple and pray for your love to increase for him, dont pray for him to come back to church because that just adds stress to your perception that he is doomed. Jesus will take all the burdens off your shoulders.
 
The best thing you can do is be an example and the lighthouse that shines bright in his life. Jesus will be the one that brings him back to the straight and narrow if it takes 5 years or 20, its not up to you, its up to Jesus.

Yeah, trying to force someone to believe, is a pretty great way to drive a wedge between you and your son, and drive him out of the church.
 
You've got a cookie, and you can stretch out your hand and offer it to him.  If you strap him to a pew and cram it down his throat, you think he'll like cookies?

You can insist that he attends church but I doubt you can force him to believe.
 
M.