BadWolf

My fave (pre-laptops) is after about an hour of tech support via the phone my cousin telling new user to check the cords in the back of the machine for a loose connection. Dude was gone a loooooooong time, and then apologized, saying he'd needed to find new batteries for the flashlight: (Wait for it) Because The Power Was Out. Headsmack! After that my cousin started all calls verifying that the computer was not only plugged in, but turned on, and that the power was on.

My mum's side of the family has a long tradition of taking the wife's surname, repeatedly. Highlander Scots. Whenever the clan was outlawed (often) the name would go into hiding for a few years. Makes tracing the geneology almost impossible!!! If we didn't have verr verr old bibles with the 'cheat codes' in them, it would be impossible. And the Norse??? Bwahahahaha! Surnames are first names with 'son' or 'dottir' attached. On both sides, though.... Nearly all the names have altered over the centuries. There's not an 'original' ancient name left. At least not in the old lines. "Newer" lines are equally unexempt. During WWII, all the Italian names on my ex's side became 'French' spellings. Elis island did a number on many as well. Your case seems like one more. Cubano name adopted (or bestowed?) upon Russian immegres in Cuba. So many people change their names while fleeing or starting fresh. So many names are changed by use or pronunciation over the centuries and millennia (all of my family names over a 1000 years old have all changed at least 4 times, some nearly a dozen). I think it adds to the history and the 'fun', myself. Future genrologists will thank you if you keep your last name as a middle name, though!!!

While your original post talked about how badly your wife was treating you you- Lied to keep her happy, rather than deal with some unpleasantness to reach actual accord - Were extremely manipulative - Were physically violent & abusive - Had a months (or years long) sexual affair - Thought so much of yourself, and so little of her, that you couldn't believe she could make it without you. And not least of all... - Couldn't seem to understand that these things MIGHT just be a root cause for her hurt / mistrust / lack of confidence/ her willingness to see you as a sexual partner (abused spouses sex drive TANKS with the ongoing abuse)/ her desire to have children with you, etc. I am frankly afraid for the health, safety, and wellbeing of any future women or children in your care, especially with your (strongly glossed over) abuses of your first wife.

The vast majority of crimes are committed by repeat offenders. - Wife beaters - Child abusers - Serial rapists - Gang crimes - Confidence schemes - Assault & battery - Drunk driving - Vehicular manslaughter /homicide - Torture - Homicide The list goes on and on... 'Justice' is not merely punishment, nor just a deterrent, nor even to protect society from that person committing crime after crime on victim after victim... 'Justice' is an evolving concept, that rather than shaping our mores, is defined by our morals. Our SENSE of justice changes as we do as a people (nation, nations). That requires conversation. An ongoing and evolving dialogue. So, I would personally posit that far from avoiding these talks... Or consigning them to gossip... That instead we encourage MORE ethical debate. MORE conversations. MORE awareness. MORE responsibility. ((So, I have all of my family's textbooks from the 1800's to the mid 1970's (when books ceased to be bought as college books are bought). Civics, very specifically 'Civic Duty', and the concept that Justice is something we are all responsible for on a day to day basis... Was first watered down in the 1940's, and then entirely erased in the 1970s. Probably first of in response to the Great Depression, and then the Vietnam war, but that's just speculation on my part. It was REPLACED by 'Social Studies'. I find the distinction to be VERY key. In Civics, from primary onward, children were taught to be active participants. In social studies, from primary onward, children are taught to observe. From activity to docility. From being taught HOW to learn, to being taught WHAT to learn. By and large, our grandparents were taught to act, their children taught to watch. Furthermore, these days, actions are almost universally punished. The kid who breaks up a fight suspended -and told to 'stay out of it and get a grownup' as punished as the kids fighting. The kid who stands up for another kid, punished until they can stand quietly in line, while injustice happens all around them. It's huge. It takes away our power. And the powerless have only one option: complaining. I am NOT advocating 'vigilante justice' or 'street justice' -much-. Having a system of laws is that are followed by most, and trusted to be enforced, is one of the signs of a healthy civilization. HOWEVER, apathy... A learned powerlessness of individuals... is a sickly substitute. Consigning ethical discussions of justice to gossip, strips away their power. Ethical discussions SHOULD lead to ethical actions. Stripping away the power of conscience action is a very dangerous experiment currently being conducted.)) I very strongly believed we SHOULD be having these conversations rather than avoiding them. That we SHOULD be teaching out children to act in their daily lives. And ghat we SHOULD recognize the ENOURMOUS power such ability to weigh and act imparts... Both on a micro and macro level. I think that a lot of the 'shows' are so popular because Justice, civics, and civic duty are NOT taught, nor taught to be acted upon. Those who can't do, watch. Those who are doing are too busy learning, acting, growing, and implementing to be interested in something they think about and exercise every single day. My .02

In my own life... I often find that learning to do the right thing, even when it doesn't feel good, is a test of my convictions. It's easy to do the right thing when it feels good. In a way, its even 'easy' when its hard-hard-hard (because its a consuming / highly emotive thing). But it's the slow, steady, day in and out.... The laying of foundations The trust building Of doing the right thing... Even when there is no immediate gratification That BECOMES the most meaningful. In time. It's never (for me) filled with that first blush of new love/ nor the wild rush of adversity/ nor burning desire/ nor pink cloud/ nor excitement in change. It's far more profound. Because, it's quite simply, me. Doing what is right. Nothing to sing about, or shout from the rooftops. Nothing to debate, get passionate about, or wring my hands over. It's just me. Doing what I'm doing. What I have and shall be doing. Because its who I am. Which is an amazing and bone deep thing. When a thing ceases to be noteworthy.

Just something to consider; Most military jobs don't translate into jobs outside the military (many do). So myself, and most of my friends are coming out of 4-8 years of military service with no ravent work history, and no education. So most of us start school. At 22-26. Most of us not graduating until our early 30's. Some because we have families or are working and going to school part time, some who are pursuing graduate degrees. Sure, most 'college kids' are 18-22. But a LOT are 22-35 (we older students tend to advance faster in our careers, later, so that certainly helps. But even if it weren't true, we'd still go. As I live on a school budget, I keep thinking what excellent 'training' for school AND what an education missionaries are receiving in their mission. (LOL... Being a converted mom of a preteen boy, ya better believe Im reeeeeally looking closely at how missions work, from a pragmatic stance as well as how important holding the priesthood is) Training is fairly obvious. Being a serious student takes quite a lot of dedication, purpose, flexibility, intent, and follow through... With next to no cash. (Although once you're 24, you'll be able to apply for grants and student loans NOT on your parents income. I actually know a lot of non-military types who are 'killing time' until they're 24... Because their parents certain can't afford to send them, but they can't afford to go on their own until they qualify for scholarships, grants, loans, and student jobs... At 24.) Robert Frost said, though: "Education is the abity to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence." As you're considering, I would suggest you look at the next 60+ years of your life, and how you want them to look... Instead of the past 4 years, and wishing they looked different. A very wise person once said 'Forgiveness is giving up all hope... Of a better past." Since your past isn't going to change, how can you start shaping your future?

In addition to the giant agency part... There's also the 3 blind men concept. (First blind man says the object in front of them is some sort of cable, the next, some sort of tree trunk, the next some sort of snake. Each is standing at the trunk, leg, and tail of the elephant). One of my favorite stories is the man who travels with an angel on the angels errands (where he scuttles a fishermans boat, kills a man, etc.) only at the end when the angel is sick and tired of being questioned does he say that there were slavers who would have captured the fishermen further out in the bay, the young man would have destroyed his parents souls, etc. In my own life, I've been blessed with some exceptionally awful things. Blessed, because the worse thing (that they made soooooo much easier to bear) followed in relatively short time, so it was easy to see how much the awful thing saved my tush, by happening in the first place. The awful thing (being gang raped, for example) was devastating, but nowhere near as devastating as ghe worse thing would have been without that first experience to have lived through, learned from, and made stronger from. ALSO, I've gotten to see some things that were bad on the surface, which turned out to be good in the end... Once my perspective shifted to 20-20 hindsight. <laughing> Now, that doesn't mean everything is rainbows and unicorns... But my understanding is that this life is supposed to teach us / offer the opportunity for us to grow and figure out who we really are. Specifically, that this life is SUPPOSED to be about bad times, struggles, choices, and challenges... As much if not more than the great parts of life. And that we made the choice, rather specifically as spirits, to enter into the fray. No?

The only part that actually concerns me are tampons (I wasn't actually joking, PID is no joke, plus they're just useful for other things) and necessary medicines. I can make penicillin as long as I have cantaloupe or cultures, but I can't make aerosolized albuterol. While cold/damp/nasty up here in general, temperate forests DO have the upside of providing everything else quite easily. Fish, deer, (and therefore lye:soap, glue, condoms, etc.), furs, etc. The starting point for MOST meds (asiatic poppies, the right kind of cherry trees, moldy melons, foxglove for digitalis, etc.), LOTS of moving water for water wheels, wood to spare for heating and cooking, water that doesn't need purifying (and even more that does)... It'd be harder to kick it than to not do well from a Madd Maxx perspective. Even on the fly, with no prep, temperate coastal rainforests may be icky, but the ecology is good. Albuterol (and other esoteric meds), o2 tanks & other specialized med gear, and cotton, though? Highly problematic. I rather doubt we're going Madd Maxx anytime soon, though. If we do, I hope our Heavenly Father will take an enlightened view on a full scale looting of Glaxo Klein. And a polite knock & barter down at Glock or Remi. (Glaxo first, Glock 2nd)

Maybe because I'm a mom, or worse mom-of-a-boy-hitting-puberty... There would have to be some kind of commandment NOT to feed them. 19 /20 you guys, skinnier every time I see them... Oy. Things are tight here, but not that tight. Sit. Eat. You're too thin.

Tampons are seriously overlooked.

So..... One can only really love, cherish, and want to bond with their oldest child, right? The heart has an amazing capacity for love. Instead of love dividing, in a healthy/balanced setting... The heart multiplies. Love just really isn't finite. When we love someone, that love becomes synergistic... ADDING to our heart, instead of diminishing it. Polygamy works as well as any form of marriage. In this life there are strong, loving, laughter filled marriages where spouses pour their energy into each other... Whether its a twosome or moresome. And there are abusive or just plain and simple bad marriages with twosomes or moresomes. I've spent my life traveling. I've spent considerable time in Islamic culture, and in Western culture (and some time in wildly different cultures that I'm not even going to muddy the waters with, right now, but the following holds true for them as well): In my experience and observation, what makes a good marriage & family is NOT math. 2 spouses, 5 spouses... 0 children, 4 children, 14 children... 1 generation home, 3 generation home... It really all matters not a single iota. What MATTERS is how people love (as a verb/action) and respect each other. They dynamics and actions and spirits of all of those involved. In many ways, a 2 person marriage with 1 or 2 children is arguably the HARDEST form out there. That's what is culturally 'normal' here in the US, though... So we see it as easy, and every unfamiliar way as impossibly frought. Which always makes me smile a little. Sort of like how most people I know outside the LDS church talk about how Mormon women are subjugated by their husbands and the church. I'm sure there are some examples where that's true... But, in most cases, its just so completely wrong as to make me laugh a little. Not the LDS women *I* know!!! In healthy/balanced polygynous marriages... There is as much love/friendship/bonding/conflict/benefits/challenges as there are in healthy/balanced 2 person marriages. Ditto one child families or four, eight, twelve, etc. child families. They're different from each other, for sure, but neither set is lacking or wrong. Just different. I'm hearing you and others say they 'know' you/they would feel xyz... But I would suggest the 'knowing' is a lot like a non-parent saying 'When I have kids I'll NEVER ______." Right. Up. Until. They. Have. Kids. :) and then their perspective shifts with added knowledge and experience. I suspect most are, rather, afraid of losing what they already have for something that...at least on the surface... Sounds like it will cause loss ...instead of gain. I don't know how our Heavenly Father is going to work things. But I DO suspect it'll be pretty Rockin'. Whether its how I would work things, or the polar opposite, or something I'd never even considered. (More often than not, I find it to be the latter. And what a wild and amazing ride: )

I agree with absolutely everything SS is saying EXCEPT this. 12 step programs are free and everywhere... So they're tempting, HOWEVER, for people who are dual-diagnosis (both addiction and a neurological disorder) they can be lethal. As WRITTEN (and sometimes practiced) they specifically say that medications can be useful or necessary and need to be overseen by a doctor. In PRACTICE, there's an overriding attitude of 'A drug is a drug is a drug.' And a general mistrust of doctors (as many NA and other 12step groups have scammed doctors for drugs to get high on). For even non-dangerous disorders like ADHD, a person will be told COUNTLESS times to get off of their meds, by countless well meaning idiots. For depression, this goes x1000. When its suicidal depression, bipolar disorder, etc... Even just the act of going off meds can kill a person (needing to be weaned off, instead), and not having ghe meds at all often leads to suicide attempts or successes in depressions and mixed episodes. SS doesn't specify what TYPE of 12-step group, which is the only part I don't wholeheartedly second. The TYPE, if he chooses to go that route. NEEDS to be a (caps because I can't highlight any other way -on my phone) DUAL DIAGNOSIS. Dual Diagnosis groups are not typical 12step groups in that 1) They're often overseen by a doctor instead of self led 2) They're usually not in any meeting list 3) They're usually held in hospital settings or in dual diagnosis specific treatment centers (neat always within a hospital) 4) There is a requirement for addiction PLUS a co-occurring neurological issue (that may or may not require medication)

I didn't. Literally. I just did it. The reason being that I come from a VERY scientific family. (That in no way believes that religion and science are at odds... One answers why, the other how... 2 totally different questions). The science part is that we TALK. Debate. Theorize. Poke fun. Argue. Experiment. Until a thing is 'done' its up for debate. My religion isn't up for debate. Of course... Now I'm an experiment in their eyes (Will she like it/ hate it/ change/ go all religious freak/ insert 2,000 more variables). Which is fine with me. I'm used to my family's politicking and way of looking at things. I should add... I converted at 33. So there was never any question about needing my family's approval. That would have meant a very different course of action!!! When it did come up, it was more in an "Oh! Nope, we've got a church thing that night." Kind of way. ((I'm VERY close with my family of origin. The fait accompli told them, simply, what "stage" we were in. Meaning: Not up for debate. )) I'm sure the 'best' way to handle family varies fairly widely depending on your own family politics.

Half my family (My Dad's side) is Catholic. This includes 1 priest, a few nuns, and my Grandmother (long list here, that ill skip). - In their church ALL churches and cathedrals are open to the public. Some, if not most, 24 hours (although sleeping there is discouraged). Only the BUSINESS areas & libraries (& some private residences are off limits without a *white collar* (key point in a minute). IF its holy ground, its 'public'. THIS INCLUDES the Vatican in Rome, which sees millions of tourists every year (only a small percentage catholic themselves). - HOWEVER ~ Many places have a 'number' limit, are set by appointment, or have limited hours. These places require a pass or reservation of some kind. Whose name they are under is of minimal importance. My grandmother would order hundreds of passes for friends and family. They all had her name on them (which acted as a backstage pass in some ways, either her & the cardinal's name on an actual pass instead of a 'ticketmaster' or 'generic' pass... The ones she handed out had 'clout & authority' of 'sponsorship' (huge huge huge in the Catholic Church) attached to them. ~ I can't underscore enough the concept of sponsorship. ((I'm sure this is what Catholic friend thought of the Temple Recommend... That it was a very special 'pass', in the name of a member of good standing vouchsafing her.)) ~ Furthermore: All the 'public' needs to get into a usually off limits (or number of visitors, or time limited) area is to be accompanied by a priest. Priests, as Im sure most are aware... Are relatively rare in Catholicism. There are only 40 thousand priests... And over 1 billion Catholics. (Anyone care to do the math on that? versus roughly half of all LDS members hold the Priesthood?.) Having a priest escort you anywhere, is -anywhere but Rome- like having a police escort. Or one of the Quorum saying 'Follow me.' They're not going to lead you astray. = Add the two together, and MsCatholic not only has a document with the name of an assumed 'Sponsor' on it, but is in the presence of SEVERAL priests. Before converting? I wouldn't have thought twice, except to be DEEPLY honored that I was being sponsored into a limited access area, about using another person's temple recommend. Because I wouldn't have understood what it meant. _____ There's also a long history of secrecy & sneaking in the Catholic Church. The Jesuits, The Reformation. There's a culture of 'Shhhhh!' that is NOT seen as lying NOR misrepresenting herself. It's actually seen as showing respect for traditions by composting yourself with decorum and not being noticed. In fact, that's a test to pass in C, in certain places: Can uou're behave correctly and solemnly enough that no one questions you? It's considered shameful to be 'caught' doing the wrong thing. So 'Shhh! Don't cause a scene!!' (From childhood, on. It's deeply ingrained. Now.. I could be wrong, and the OPs former-friends told her exactly the sacrilege and defilement of a holy place that would be committed to get her in (doubt it!), and made sure she understood she was impersonating the person whose Name was on the recommend... Not being honored by being sponsored by, nor gifted with a pass. I just doubt it. (Son calling, edit later!)

Nope!!!! Ignoring infrastructure (I do have some friends who live entirely off grid) - Without the courts my ex would have (and is still attempting to), walk with his 6 figure salary, all our savings (which he has gotten away with), all our assets, never paid a dime in child support/Maintence (he's still trying that one), and a whole mess of other things. - Without federally subsidized student loans & grants, I would never be able to afford to complete my education. Which also means that I would lose my house (GOT that asset, but Ex ignored several court orders, so Im very far behind). - Without both federal & charitable Monies Id be half a million in the hole from my son's last hospitalization. - Without the govt... The jobs I'm trying to get simply wouldn't exist. ________ I'm not currently on WIC or other Federally funded programs... But that's due to LUCK (or Providence). Not my own hard work. All my savings/planning/etc. went out the door when my husband of 11 years thought it would be appropriate to throw our son in anger and fracture my skull. So, nope! I very much need the US Govt. Both now, and later, when I hope to be drawing a paycheck from them. ____________ COULD I go live off the grid / in total self sufficiency? Of course. Hunting & growing & hydroelectric generators & bartering & the whole shebang. The hardest part would be medical facilities & staff, and mechanically minded folk, etc.... To do what I can't. So the real caveat there is that while I COULD, in order to live WELL, there would need to be other people. Which means some form of governing body, sooner or late. So it would be switching from the US Govt. to the Us Govt.

Very little, in my experience, is satisfying about miscarriage... Which is probably equally unsatisfying, I know. But for me, sometimes awful things simply happen. For MYSELF, I know that I've gotten different truths for different losses. But that just because they're true for ME, doesn't mean they're true for everyone. And just because they're true, doesn't make them hurt any less. For MYSELF... While every spirit receives a body, I know not every body receives a spirit. For MYSELF... I know that the above isn't true for all miscarriages. I lost a little girl between 6&7mo, who had a very strong spirit. I've lost some early, as well. Different miscarriages have affected me differently, for different reasons. I've lost 2 late, and several early. They're all different. Except for the extremely early ones, but again, that not saying that all early losses are the same. For MYSELF ...I know that chemical pregnancies, with their (usual cause being) lethal DNA zipperings (acid for blood, no bones, not merely deformities... But truly lethal combinations), are a gift. It's a gift that there is a double redundancy where first the ovum/embryo checks itself (and self destructs if it finds itself zippered wrong), and then the lining of the uterus checks the embryo at implantation... Just in case the self-check option was one of the messed up things. I find them to be a gift myself, because consigning a spirit to an impossibility, is... Wrong. And that as a mum, I'll take the pain of losing, so that my baby's spirit doesn't have the pain of an impossible chance. Each. And. Every. Time. If someone asked me, I would vote to cry and wait, rather than have the spirit of my child suffer. For myself, having carried a pregnancy that would have killed me (long story), I wonder if that baby's spirit felt the same way? (Conversely, though, I never blame a baby whose mother died to carry it). My grandmother always said miscarriages were impatient spirits who just wanted to come say hello, but weren't supposed to be born yet. For MYSELF, I've found that to be sometimes true. For MYSELF, I know that sometimes, I simply won't know why. That ill look for an answer and not find it, or not recognize it when I do find it. I also know that very little else will make me as mad as someone else telling me there is no answer. There's always an answer. I just don't know what it is, yet. When I'm in a better place, I can know its just that person grieving in their own way (when I'm in a not so great place, I'm less charitable towards well intentioned idiots). Ahem. Which is the reason behind the repeated me statements. Answers from one sometimes translate or resonate, and sometimes they don't. So pleeeease, know Im not telling you what is. Merely my own experience. I know that doesn't mean it's your, or anyone else's, experiences. I expect you'll find your own answers. They may or may not be similar to mine. As something of a side note: In Japan, there are whole cemeteries for unborn children. I often wish we had that practice, here. There's a depth and subtlety to the pain of losing someone you will never get to meet, but love and cherish with all your heart, that is simply not formerly recognized in our culture. All my best to you and yours.

I cannot sing. Or rather, not being mute, I can. I just sound like someone recorded a cat fight, put it in a disused refrigerator, and drug it down the highway behind a truck. So ... I don't sing. I don't follow along though, either. I LISTEN. My face turned up, song in my heart, ears full of sound. I don't think I should have to keep my face down in shame 'following along' or pretending to (I lose all spiritual contact reading instead of listening, so I've now got the option of losing connection or lying by 'faking it') instead of giving my full and undivided attention to the hymns being sung and the spirit behind them. It was a very simple thing : 'Listen, or follow along or join in, just do what feels right." was what I was told my first few sacrament meetings in regards to hymns. So I listen. Everyone singing has their face lifted, its not like I'm being distracting. Nor, at least I thought, being wildly inappropriate in my worship. If I'm wrong, though and most people feel as you do, I can remove myself to the lobby for sacrament. ______ I've also had my right arm in a sling, and can't move it (strapped to my body) for 6 weeks. According to your speech, I should abstain from taking sacrament for that time? What about the 4 months of physical therapy after that, where i looked normal, but couldnt bring my right hand to my mouth? So too, those who've lost their arm (what with the war on, there are a lot more amputees these days) or lost use of it? And how so those parents who've just had their right hand spit up on, "Here, Mom!"ed with something nasty -and often of mysterious origin- thwacked into an open palm, diaper leaked through upon, etc.? Even though their hand is slimy, sticky, boogey, damp with urine... They shouldn't use their clean hand? Obviously, there is sometimes time to go rewash, but kids are past masters at perfect (ly rotten) timing. ---------- One of the things I love about this church is how kind & practical it is. People are expected to be intelligent enough to exercise their own best judgement in varying situations. People are expected to, in times of doubt, pray for their own answers. While I suspect your intent is kindly meant, I hope you're wrong in your analysis. Otherwise, I and many others in my ward shouldn't be in the room much less taking sacrament.

That's very, very sweet..., but I'm fine. I don't NEED help, right now. I just don't have anywhere else to cut back on except my son's martial arts or the grocery budget. Once my divorce is final in a few months, Ill be able to supplement my income with student loans (Im precluded, currently, due to my ex's income). Meaning in 3-6 mo, everything will be worked out, g.w. : ) So this is really reeeeeeally temporary. I can do 6 more mo standing on my head, and it might not even be that long. And my kiddo-only budget is about the same as missionaries get. So no worries. He's good. If I had no money, I'd touch base. Instead, like a lot of people, things are just tight. Unlike a lot of people, I CAN eat... I'm simply choosing not to, in order to spend that money on extras (like martial arts) & a better quality diet for my son (and movie rentals -no tv etc-, books, and taffy... LOL, not counting the taffies as 'better quality', though! Never fear!). I'm keeping my blood sugar up through out the day (soda or sugar water), eating dinner with my son every other week when he's home, staying hydrated, taking my vitamins, lowered my activity level, the whole shebang. I might get a little fat from tanking my metabolism, but I certainly won't starve. I forget to eat for a couple days all the time, and COULD eat if I chose to (and sometimes do) so it isn't a hardship. Not like for a lot of people who don't have a choice. When there's nothing to cut, and no food. Choice is huge. It's just a little challenging, right now, is all. Life is good! I just don't want my son to know. His dad puts him through the wringer. Too many adult worries on little shoulders.

I personally consider birth control to BE a prayer. Why? I was planning on waiting until I had my degree before having children. (Please. I would prefer to not be pregnant right now). Our son was conceived through 3 forms of birth control. When a person is IN an abusive marriage, its hard to actually see. Not a lot of agency in domination/manipulation/control/abuse. Some. For sure. Just not a lot. Which makes 'responsibility', almost laughable. Lets ALL sing the abused spouse anthem together, now; "But its not that bad." & How about the refrain of trying to make absolutely unacceptable whitewashed into 'normal' "Everyone has a bad day from time to time, marriage is hard, life is really stressful right now, blah blah blah" The blame shifting "A lot of it is my fault. It's all my fault. They wouldn't if I ______." By the time you're solid into the neglect/addictions/adultery/(Id be surprised-floored, actually- if there wasn't also flat out mental/emotional, maybe even physical abuse) that the OP describes above , BOTH people have lost their ability to make rational decisions. The one staying in an abusive marriage is getting just as high on false hope and lies, and just as blinded by fear and pain... If not more... Than the person who is actually breaking vows. Life itself becomes blurry, myopic, warped. There's a new 'normal' when the Absolutely Unacceptable becomes "Not that bad". When one chooses to stay in an abusive situation, they lose themselves. In part or in whole. When ones life devolves down to chasing the high of even 5 minutes, much less a few days or a few weeks of 'good times', between the bad times... Rational decision making becomes highly impaired. Even impossible. Why do people enable addictions? Why do battered spouses keep coming back? How do these things develop into the cycle of abuse in the first place? Because one loses their ever lovin mind. They become impaired. One loses one's self, as one loses normal, and starts surviving on hope and denial and fear and heart break. Just one more. One more chance. It was good for a little while. I can get that back. This time. This time will be different. Shudder. Not a lotta agency in abusive situations. Just my experience.

His parents are looking at their last 6 months with their son He is looking at his first 6 months of the rest of his life. Few parents are very keen to lose their last few months with their children, whether its service, mission, or college. This is the time most parents set aside to really help their sons and daughters to transition, say goodbyes, bonding, planning, reminiscing. There's years and years of looking forward to & dreading this time. Very few parents will happily say 'See ya!' and sign. Even with it MAYBE taking a few months to process, once you've signed, the call CAN come in a week. A day. A month. It puts everything into the chaos of waiting-not-knowing. To give up the last few months as a family... I think you may not realize the gravity of your request, nor the longterm ramifications even if NOTHING snafus. (And in the military. That's situation normal for a reason.) I joined the USMC @ 17. My dad joined the USN @ 17. My dad with his mum's blessing. Myself without my parents' blessing (I strong armed them in a really vile and regrettable way.) I would enlist again in a heartbeat. But I would go ABOUT enlisting honorably, instead of forcing their hand. That was a very low point in my history, what I did to my parents back then. I CANNOT underscore how much I regret the way I treated them, in order to get what I wanted. Everyone's military exp is different. While you may have had an outstanding time, to date... Their fears are justifiable. And reasonable. It's an entirely different culture. Sexual culture -just as an example-, couldn't be more night and day, and is sooooo different even from sex-outside-of-marriage=okay/normal, that its out and out studied by scientists all over the world (The norm, for unmarried single people to often have hundreds of partners, sex as a sport, etc.). We had virgins in my unit (2), and 1 Mormon (one of my besties, who was not one of the virgins, btw., though he did start abstaining later... Oh. Everyone knowing your intimate things? Also standard. Privacy is almost nil.). I'm curious how he and our pal M's 2 year long running joke between them of "Whose is better? Magic hat (M was jewish) or magic underwear?' (Drove us all nuts) Would fly here on this forum? So, too, that those practicing abstinence often woke up with naked girls (do note the plural) in bed with them? Those who didn't drink given spiked drinks? Cigarettes. (Heck, if anywhere around bodies, sometimes the only way not to throw up is covering the smell with smoke). And these were things done in 'fun'. By their friend who DID respect them, but were trying to 'help'. For those without friends, things actually CAN get ugly. But they don't, always. Because everyone has VERY different experiences. I LOVED my time spent active duty. But his parents fears, and concerns are real and valid. (Along with a lot of others, beyond WoW. You and he may never end up with 'helpful' friends. May never end up in a 'bad command', may never have to sacrifice your morals. Or you may. Or, worse, may CHOOSE to (totally different things). But these things are real and valid. ((While exUSMC, I've served with Canadians & Brits (& others). :) Good guys. And. Just. Not. That. Different. From. Down. Here!)) As I said, Id enlist again. I'd be thrilled for my son to enlist (and nervous!). But I would ALSO want those last few months!

Does it make sense? Only if there's a youngster (or heck, not so young, but thinking maybe a techie cubscout who could use some guidance) who could use a mentor... or if this member really needs companionship. Since he's incapable of doing it on his own, either an excuse to get him near someone who needs him (under the auspices of being needed themselves), or get someone else near him, under the auspices of being needed. Or to prompt the ward into getting Braille & Voice Command Software... So he learns how to start interfacing, or the next blind member isn't left without, or investigator is folded in. But Im ADHD. I see patterns where none exist.

No worries! What I actually meant is that in all 3 its a very ritualistic 'Sit, pray, eat' sort of formula. Huh. Didn't realize how deep that went. No eat. No pray. No sit. I appear to have just gone backwards logic in my solution-ing.

Examples? My background is loosely Catholic, Buddhist, & Islamic. So I'm not sure what changing the culture would look like. That's part of the problem, is that it usually is more Norman Rockwell (meets family circus). I'm distracting him currently by eating on the go, with movies, etc. during times when he's home more. But if/when I bring up being time to pray... He jumps on where's MY breakfast/lunch/tea??? (English teatime, not actual 'tea').

10! :) (Not sure how that happened. Toddler last week, turned around twice, and now he's 10. I have to be careful not to sneeze, or he'll be driving.) So he's still young enough to redirect, but old enough to catch on. And have some pretty strong views.

<grin> Upside! He's still small enough to pick up! And if you have to take him to school in his PJs (my preschool teacher's favorite trick for when kids pull this experiment "Oh. Just bring him to school in his jammies, with his clothes in a sack. Peer pressure may as well be put to good use.") he's still small enough to change in the car without getting all prezteled up trying to wiggle into things, if he changes his mind in the parking lot! LOL... LOVE the phone call. Curiosity: Was he being polite, or has Prudence before Valor sunk in?