Gwen

i have thought about that pushka, i personaly don't believe in a "one and ONLY" but that some ppl were picked before. i can't quote this from a prophet or anything, just my ponderings, but here is a bit more on how i see all that. there is a quote i hear a lot in the chruch along the lines of any two ppl that truely live the gospel can have a wonderful loving fulfilling marriage. i believe that but i do not think that is all there is to it. the gospel is such that it would be true any two ppl could be in love and happy (assumeing two ppl could live the gospel perfectly enough). i think of the prexistance kinda like it is here. we all knew eachother, we were being taught and prepared for the things to come, we developed relationships and friendships. i feel like some of us, not all of us, decided we wanted to be together and asked our father to help us find eachother after we got to earth (weither this be friendship or romantic). we were promised we would find eachother reguardless of how far apart we are on this earth if we always strive to follow his promptings, he would make a way. if after getting here the "one" you wanted to find takes a different path, refuses to follow the father...are you destined to be alone? i don't think you are, because there are many you could be happy with, the father knows who they are and will help you find that person. so we do still have agency, not all couples were "predestined", there is no one and ONLY, but you could be "meant to be". if that doesn't sound like a compleate contridiction. lol same with children, there may be more children that were "planned" for our family but if i choose to stop having children, they aren't stuck forever without a body, or cast into some unfit situation. we could all be tested in many ways, our heavenly father can handle our foolishness and mistakes. i think everything in this life is training. i think our father knew the odds of our straying and comming back and he did plan for that. i don't believe he puts those "bad" situations in front of us. but more when we fail to listen and get ourselves stuck he can use it to teach us and we can get out and become better for it; if we let him. i recall hearing it said once that how much we trust ppl has nothing to do with the other ppl, but how much we trust ourselves to be able to handle their choices/imperfections. i used to wonder why our heavenly father would give such important tasks to such imperfect ppl. that statment kinda resolved that for me. he can trust me (or anyone) with these great tasks, cause no matter how bad i mess it up, if i'm at least trying to follow him, he can fix it, good can come from it. his will will be done. now i don't really want to make it any harder for him than necessary. lol sometimes i think i do. this has come up a lot in our house lately. we have been in court stuff with my husband's ex about his son. when they first divorced my husband was givin some counsel from the stake pres (which should have never been given) that he chose to follow even when his leagal counsel advised him not to. that complicated things greatly. i do not think that is the way the lord wanted it done. i do believe my husband was blessed in many ways (mostly with streangth to endure and not allow himself to be alienated). i do believe that the lord is slowly straightening that out and fixing this situation. was this the only way? i don't think so. was this the way the lord "wanted it done"? i don't think so. can it be made right? YES!!! if we do all we can to follow the lord will it be made right? i have faith in that, one day it will be as it should be. we may complicate the plan of salvation, we can't destroy or prevent it. i disagree with that institute director on several points. my parents had a horrible marriage. i watched them go on this rollercoaster of counseling and what not my whole life. they were married before they joined the church. i used to ask all the time, well if you didn't know about receiving personal revelation when you got married, what if you chose the wrong person? where did that leave you? i never felt my parents were "meant to be". they stayed married till all the kids were grown and then divorced. my dad has gotten remarried. i do think that my siblings and i were meant to be siblings, i think we were put in that union after it took place (god knowing it would take place i guess it could have still all been "planned" to some extent). i always felt like (before the divorce) that my parents had one of two destinies. one they would eventually figure it out, they would come to love eachother (somewhat like your institute director said, or the quote of any two ppl trying to live the gospel i mentioned earlier); or they would be reassigned and blessed for their efforts to make it work even though they were never able to come to love eachother in the end. since the divorce i see them as the same boat as my husband, irreguardless of a sealing there will be no marriage to eachother in the hearafter. i was very concerned about this, the whole concept of being with someone you divorced in this life later due to a sealing just makes my skin crawl (as i think it would almost anyone who has been through a divorce), and i asked my stake pres as i was preparing to go to the temple how that worked. the last thing i wanted was to be "second wife" to this she-devil; expecially when i was the one that formed and lived this life with my husband. he pointed out the doctrine that if you can't live a lesser law in this life you will not be asked to live it in the next. you can't live the law of tithing here you will never be asked to live the law of consecration. you can't live till death do you part you won't be asked to live eternity. that if she is worthy of an eternal marriage and does not find that here she will not be part of our sealing. to me that makes more since and is far less nausiating. but then maybe i'm just rationalizing things to make myself feel better.

not sure if this is exactly where you wanted to go with this but i have always believed that families are organized before we get here. i do believe that my husband and i were "meant" to be. this thinking was challenged when i met my husband. he had been married before, in the temple, says he prayed about things before marrying her and the answer was clearly a yes. why would the lord have said for him to marry her if he was supposed to marry me? i still don't know the answer to that, but i do still think we were meant to be. hubby and i have a few years between us lol and he and i were talking one day and i was telling him about an experiance i went through. there was a point in my teens when i became very preoccupied with my future husband. i recall praying for him all the time. asking the lord, i don't know who he is but you do, help him, don't let him fall into temptation, let him have a strong testamony so we can go to the temple together; i was trying to do all the right things to be worthy of him, let him do the same for me.....all kinds of things of that nature. then we started comparing notes, putting things on a time line. this time that i was going through, praying "for him", was right after he returned home from his mission. that was a time of great trial and temptation for him. he almost left all he knew, one of the hardest times in his life (in a tie with going through the divorce i think he would say now). i guess it all could have been coincidence, sure was interesting though. when he and i were dating and thinking this could lead to marriage but not talking about it yet, hubby was tucking his son into bed and he said "daddy, after you and gwen get married and my brother comes we can share a room." he then went on to make plans about sharing a room with his brother and what that would be like. we had a honeymoon baby, a boy. did he know or was he just lucky? i think he knew. weither he remembered from before or it was revelation given to him to help him deal with his situation of divorce, he knew. our 3rd child was in the hospital due to seizures at 3 months of age. one night things were strange to say the least. i felt after that night things would be fine, i didn't see anyone but i swear he had a visitor. he seemed to get progressivley better after that night. when he was 18 months we were preparing for the birth of his sis. he would get all tied up in a fit and about the only thing that would calm him down was pictures of infants. he loved to talk about the baby that was comming. after she was born he came running into the hospital room with this glitter in his eye, he knew exactly who he was looking for. he was attached to her from day one. he loved to "hold" her, and take care of her. there was a connection there that could be felt. i remember my first thought when i saw the way he looked at her was; "she was his visitor, he's been waiting for her to get here". so many things just made since for me. they are still little partners in crime, i tell ppl they are twins sometimes. constantly looking out for eachother, taking care of eachother. i have no doubt they knew eachother well before they got here. i don't claim to know the exact extent that we know or impact eachother before we get here. but i do believe that some couples, some families are "meant to be". i believe that the members of our family that aren't here yet are aware of how the family is doing. lol they may even come with assignments to "straighten us out" and get us on the right track once they get here.

this reminds me of a lesson we had awhile back on how to improve scripture study. one of the suggestions made was from an ensign article. lol yes i'm one of those that can say who or where. but anyway, as best i can recall, the suggestion was made to take a clean inexpensive set of scriptures (or just the book of mormon or whatever you want to read that yr) and pick three personal questions you want answers to. get colored pencils and write those questions in different colors in the front. each time you sit down to read; get your pencils, read your questions, pray, and then read for the answers to your questions; as the insite comes mark the scripture (and make any notes in the margin that you like) with the same color of the question the scripture relates to. when you are done you will have a manual from the scriptures for your very personal questions. each yr you can pick a new set of questions that are most pertenant to your life at that time.

i've got one that started 1st grade and one that started K this yr. they are having fun so far. my 1st grader came home after the first week and said it was to boring and to much writing, but he seems to be fine now. (we started back on aug. 9....i think it was lol around there) as for which grades are called what; some do it a bit different. for us middle school / junior high is 6th - 8th grade. in our town we actually divide up elementary as well. we have K-2 in one school; 3-5 in another; 6-8 middle school; and then 9-12 high school. it's going to be a pain in a couple of yrs. we have no bus system and having kids in two different schools getting out at the same time.......we'll see how that goes. we have several that home school in our area. if i've understood correctly in our state the home schoolers use what ever curriculum they would like. they have grade level tests provided by the state that they have to take at certian intervals to insure they are learning at or above grade level. however, they do not get a "high school diploma" here they take the GED. which is the equivilant. actually i hear it's harder than the HSCT (high school competency test) that you must pass to get a highschool diploma. if you can't pass that but you passed all your classes through school then you get a cirtificate of compleation at graduation and still have to go back and take the GED if you want to further your education. i have personal frustrations with the whole concept of the cirtificate of compleation, i see it as nothing more than an confession of the education system that they have failed students. a student passes every grade through 12 yrs of school and can't pass the exit exam???? sure the student could have done better but maybe they shouldn't have passed some of those grades to begin with. that is not the student's fault, and makes me wonder if they even taught the material to begin with.

"We must acknowledge that perfection is a process. This is a gospel of eternal progress, and we must remember to appreciate the journey." does anyone else have difficulty with this part? sometimes it's hard to appreciate the thorns in your side even when you know in the end all will be better than ever before. i need to work on that; appreciating the journey. also reminds me of a talk yrs ago where a story was told about a young boy answering a teachers question in a math class. the teacher asked something along the lines of if you have a letter to mail and walk half way to the mail box and stop, then walk half of the remaining distance and stop, and continue doing that will you ever reach the mailbox? the mathmatical answer is of course no. the boy replied with something along the lines of you will get close enough to mail the letter. i guess i think of that a lot when i think of perfection, it's just going half way over and over again. we may not get there but we'll get close enough to receive god's grace and salvation. which i guess this could realy apply more in the topics on faith and works. you won't make it but you have to work (walk half way as many times as you can) and thus get close enough to mail the letter. but if you never start out the door with the letter you will never get that far ................. but i digress. :)

But it wasn't a good option. The child was talking... not even crying. Medication should never be used to shut someone up or get them to sleep to make it easier for all involved. Medication should be used only if someone is sick... and even then if absolutely necessary. Why not just spike their juice with some whiskey? Same thing. To me, it's like the whole Ritalin thing. So many parents use it to make their children easier to handle and it stifles their personality. It's laziness on the parents' part. (I do believe that Ritalin is necessary in very rare cases.) lol shan you stole my thought! i was just thinking we give alcohol to the adults who have trouble flying (and many who don't) to calm them down and then excuse the behavior cause they don't really know what they are doing, their drunk. so why not just get the kids drunk. apparently the behavior is then more exusable than just saying, well it's a child maybe i'll cut 'em some slack. edited to add: i personally don't think alcohol and benadryl are in the same boat unless the benadryl is being severaly abused. i don't think a child should be medicated for convenince either.

i thought about this topic when i heard this. lol someone used it in a talk at chruch. it comes from the Ensign 1996 December First Presidency Message Gratitude As a Saving Principle By President James E. Faust Second Counselor in the First Presidency I am grateful for people on the earth who love and appreciate little children. A few years ago I found myself late at night on an airplane bulging with passengers going north from Mexico City to Culiacán. The seats in the plane were close together, and every seat was taken, mostly with the gracious people of Mexico. Everywhere inside the plane there were packages and carry-on luggage of all sizes. A young woman came down the aisle with four small children, the oldest of whom appeared to be about four and the youngest a newborn. She was also trying to manage a diaper bag and a stroller and some bags. The children were tired, crying, and fussing. As she found her seat in the airplane, the passengers around her, both men and women, literally sprang to her aid. Soon the children were being lovingly and tenderly comforted and cared for by the other passengers. They were passed from one passenger to another all over the airplane. The result was an airplane full of baby-sitters. The children settled down in the caring arms of those who cradled them and before long went to sleep. Most remarkable was that a few men who were obviously fathers and grandfathers tenderly cradled and caressed the newborn child. The mother was freed from the care of her children most of the flight. The only thing I felt bad about was that no one passed the baby to me! I relearned that appreciation for and thoughtfulness and kindness toward little children are an expression of the Savior’s love for them.

http://www.cmt.com/videos/dierks-bentley/2...last-name.jhtml http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/Du...Yes-Lyrics.html

sounds familiar....... http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/Bu...rld-Lyrics.html

this just seemed appropriate to me. sorry if it's off subject. just thought the most recent teaching from the chruch felt right at the moment. http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

i had 4 kids in 5 yrs (no twins); it still amazes me how different each experiance was. being so close together i thought how different could it be.....? lol. my first i nursed till 13 months or so. my second i only nursed for 6 months. i had post partum after my first that lasted the first month maybe, i think that is the "normal" kind. i didn't recognize it at the time, but looking back i can see it. i had these odd, intense feelings of loneliness and fear. i would have images of bad things happening to my baby, not me doing them but things happening more of tragic accident kind of stuff. those fears and things did go away after about a month. with my second it was very different. i had ppd very bad. i was medicated for it, the reason i stopped nursing him at 6 months. that depression was a different kind. i didn't want to hold or care for my baby, everything in the world was to much for me to handle. it took some time for me to figure out what something was wrong. this depression and things being to overwhelming was one of the major factors in making the decision that the first needed to sleep in his bed on a rutine. it was in efforts to preserve my sanity, also the reason hubby did most of the training there. i don't remember any ppd with the other two (however there was some depression, i'm confident it was just me struggling as i do now, not due to the pregnancy). i nursed 3 and 4 for the first yr and then weaned them. by then i was so tired they stopped sleeping in my bed much younger than the first two, they were put on a rutine sooner, i just didn't have the energy to keep up the pace i did before. i will say that i think getting them on a rutine was easier than the first due to they had the example of the others (they all share a room). as well as their personality is such that they want to do everything ahead of schedule. lol i didn't really push a rutine for them untill they were appx 10 months. the first 2 yrs a month of growth makes a huge difference, what they may not be able to handle at 8 months they will at 10. sometimes it's a matter of timeing not method. my personal feelings is unless mom is losing her sanity do what you can and let them be a baby for at least the first yr. by 2 however you should be setting some rutines and rules or they will be running the house on you. i think every child will be different and you will be different with every child. in my opinion the most important thing is to know your limits, where you are. if the lack of sleep has you so off kilter that it is making you a bad mother durring the day, then you need to figure something out. if the crying is making you feel more guilty than you are exhausted then maybe that's not the answer for you and this baby right now. you and the lord will know what's best for your current situation. follow the impressions you get, know your limits, and know you aren't alone. this is one of those things in life that no matter how much one parent learns they can't write a textbook for another parent. every situation is so unique we must all write our instruction book as we go along.

are you nursing? just a couple more thoughts. :) my dr waited till my 4th and i was about half dead from lack of sleep to tell me that the baby can smell my milk up to 6 ft away. she would wake up slightly, smell me and wake the rest of the way to eat, even though i knew she didn't need to eat that often anymore. she had been sleeping in the same room but not with me anymore. i moved her to a different room and almost imeadiatly her waking cut in half (when she really needed to eat). she started sleeping through the night faster than any of the others. i also found that with some of mine being able to see us made the crying worse. it was much harder on me as well to be in the room with it. i understand the sleeping lighter when they are in the bed and how that disturbs sleep. you are definately not alone in your struggle.

how old is your little one? our first was the hardest to get to sleep in his own bed. i too have strong willed children. not sure if it will help much but maybe at least you won't feel so guilty about your struggle from hearing my experiance with my first. at about 18 months we decided he was going to sleep in his bed no matter what. he needed a rutine bad, he was staying up all night, sleeping with us, up and down when he did finally fall asleep, i had just had his baby brother so between the two there was no hope for sleep for me. i will say as a young parent we try some foolish things, so i hope he has very little recolection of those days. lol we used to spank more than we do now and that was the first thing we tried, we'd put him to bed after a story and such and if he got up he got a spanking and was put back to bed. the only part of the whole thing i truely regret. as we became more tired and frustraited the spankings got harder and obviously weren't working. it came to a point that if we spanked him any more or any harder it would have crossed the line. (the only good thing was i learned very quickly how unhelpful spanking is, i still do some but only when it's a big deal not as a first method of dicipline.) after 1 night we knew that was a bad deal and cut that out. then we decided we were just going to go to bed. we turned on his night light, turned off all the lights in the house and told him he could stay up if he wanted but mommy and daddy were going to bed. we locked ourselves in our room (which was right next to his) turned out our light and sat and listened. he sat at our door and literally cried till 2 in the morning where he finally fell asleep out of exhaustion on the floor in the hall. then we moved him to his bed. i cried most of that night and felt like the worst mother in the world. that didn't happen more than once. we then put a rocking chair in his room. i must give the credit to my husband here he did the hard part and did a wonderful job. he sat in the rocking chair and sang hymns and such to our son. every time he got out of bed he would calmly put him back in bed and sit down. the didn't talk to him, or awknowledge him other than to put him back to bed. otherwise he was just in there and sang. after about a million times of being placed back in bed he realized he wasn't getting out and laid in bed and cried. the first couple of nights this went on till well after midnight. the next few nights after that it only went on till 10 or so. it slowly moved up till he would get in bed without a fuss. then my husband and i started taking turns singing to him till he was asleep. it still took awhile to get him to sleep but it was without a fight. after that was well established we put a cd player in his room would only sing a few songs and then we'd turn on a classical cd for him to listen to till he fell asleep. after he got used to our leaving we started turning the music off after so long, we eventually got him to accept our few songs and go to sleep without any other aids. once we had the rutine established and knew what worked for us it wasn't as hard for the other kids to learn. looking back it felt like it took forever and was a tramatic for all of us. i am glad we did it though. now we have a rutine that we go through, take the kids to bed, tuck them in, they each get to pick one song, we sing and walk out. it all takes 10-15 min. we have few problems. we put them in bed at 8, they are asleep by 8:30 on occassion if they took a late nap 9. i have a lot to learn about parenting but i feel like for our family we have bed time prety much figured out. every kid and family is different, i think for us the key was in the rutine and learning to calm down about it. good luck finding what works for yall. oh another thing we did with the other kids that helped was for a special occassion like bday or somthing we let them pick out a sheet set and such. one of our boys had a nemo set. lol it made their bed special, for a little while at least. it wasn't the end all answer but i think was fun for all of us.

i agree with six and ck on this one. for me it is very frustrating to see how this media teaching could hurt our community. our town is supported by several big plants. then the kids come home from school talking about global warming and pics of big industrial plants with thick black smoke comming out of the stacks. they leave our children with the impression that all industrial facilicites are bad. i don't argue that there was a time when all were doing some not so good things (which no one knew at the time what the impact would be; when you know better you do better) and there are some that still need a lot of improvement. but for the most part (in this area anyway) these big businesses do more to help our environment than to hurt. i know i've mentioned this before about the paper plant that my husband works. my husband worked with the environmental and now works on looking for new equipment that will help them make their product better and cleaner. that is all he does, he and a whole group of ppl. they monotor what is comming out of the stacks and what is going into the river. most of what comes out of their smoke stack is steam, it's that simple, you can't cook something at extreamly high temps without making steam and having to release it some way. they monitor the river temps and oxygen levels several times a day. not because of what they are doing but because of the natural summer conditions around here the river will at times naturally on it's own be depleated of oxygen and fish will start to die. so they spend extra time and money to adjust the temp of any cleaned water they are putting back into the river so that it will cool the river down, they have a boat and ppl trained to go up and down the river when it gets to low on oxygen and actually replace that oxygen. the river is vital to their business, they want a healthy river. the river is just a start, they do so much for the forests as well. many of these big industries love the environment, they know without a healthy earth they will be out of business, and they work to keep it clean and healthy. but you don't hear about that on the news. that's not taught in the schools. instead they leave the impression that daddy works for a company that is killing the polar bears and polluting our water; not once do they teach the kids the truth about the companies that support and sustain their family and their community. it's sad when the schools paint a picture that puts fathers (or mothers) down in the eyes of their children cause they work for the "bad guy". for the record i have no problem with the schools teaching about individual responsibility, recycling, conserving water, conserving electricity, etc. i have no problem with them teaching the facts about environmental cycles, or what happens when you throw something in the garbage. i think it's important to teach those things. but to teach that ppl are the plage of the earth, that all big companies are bad, that we are the reason the earth changes, that we are destrying it... one it's conceited to think that we are that important in the grand scheme of the universe but two how does it help our kids for them to be thinking that they are to blame and the earth would be better if we (ppl) were not here. it amazes me how one statment can show such conceit and lack of self worth all at the same time. have we truely lost sight of the middle ground? what we do is important, we have a stewardship and responsibility to the portion of the earth we have and the earth will do what it's going to do.

In the USA, a "one night stand" is considered a "common-law marriage." There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services. Since you are not in the U.S., you need to ascertain that information about your country. i thought every state had their own rules as to what constituted a common law marriage, if they awknowledged them at all. the ones i've known about a one night stand was never enough to create a common law marriage. there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. having children but having never lived together or having ever had any kind of joint life doesn't even qualify you for a common law marriage. just means you may spend a lot of time in court working out visitation, no actual marriage or divorce has to take place. but that is just what i've always been told on the subject, could be wrong.

a note on having others help out. i am in a small branch and having several young children (the only one with kids) the members all saw my kids like their grandkids and wanted to help out. which was wonderful, but then i noticed some things happening. my kids never wanted to sit with me, they would make noise till i was at the end of my rope and someone else would offer for them to come sit with them and there they would get candy and whatnot to keep them quiet. i realized on this road i was raising holy terrors and the whole branch was helping. so i set some rules. i talked to the members that had been helping out and said i was more than happy to let the kids come sit with them, and they were welcome to bring my kids treats; but.... no treats till after the meeting was over and i said they had "earned" them; good behavior. they had to sit with the family untill after the sacrament had been passed and if they were reverent and continued to be reverent they could sit with others on occassion as long as it didn't become an every week issue (and they had to ask me first, not just get up and move). the members were great to support this. it has been working out great. as the kids get older they stay with me more, but on wiggily days they can sit with someone and get one to one attention. the branch members still get to play "grandma/pa" and bring special treats and things for the kids (which meant i didn't have to pack that junk). my kids have developed special relationships with the branch members, which i think is great. lol however they are the only young children that invite "old ppl" to their bday parties. lol it has been good though, i feel supported by the actions of the branch rather than undermined as a parent. it's working for us so far.

wow, where have i been? lol ok so for those that were wondering i was not talking about interviewing yw from chruch unfortunately. i am in a position that i am having to venture into the community and find someone. i am having to have some faith in my ability to receive inspiration that this will be fine or not. i am nervous about it but it is where life has put me at the moment. so i am taking suggestions from neighbors, asking for references, interviewing, and most importantly praying and trusting how it feels. i did have one young lady watch my kids yesterday for two hours. my 6 yr old is very talkitive and has a very good memory for details and i've asked him for a full report. lol things seem to have gone well. as for the other issue that has come up about taking kids places. i think our culture is increasing to doing things without the kids, especially the fewer kids ppl have. but it isn't the end of the world if you take your kids places. part of why i'm in this quandry is that i take my kids everywhere with me. for the first time i'm having situations that i need sitters. i take all of my children to the store with me, i do not buy them every want and impulse they have. i use it as a teaching experiance so yes it takes forever, who cares. i let them help pick the brand or specific flavor of something we have on our list, i talk to them about prices (if we get a then we can't get this impulse they want (usually asked for on a different occasion, not that moment), if we save money with b then there is money for x, y or z....). when my kids do ask for things they rarely ask for it imeadiatly. sometimes they know from the start it's an extra and will say, my bday is comming up can we get some of this... they know what are special occassion items, etc. i do avoid taking them to dr offices that i won't be able to tend to them (dentist, gyno, etc). regular dr i take them all. my son with seizures goes to a special clinic with ppl there that have every disability you can think of; wheel chairs of every kind, terets, various retardations. there is a lot going on. i take all the kids (that aren't in school now, all before). at first the dr was shocked, he worried about the kids being afraid of all the stuff going on. i explained that i had talked to them before we got there, told them what to expect (i did go by myself and the one child the first time), about manners (how to ask questions, not to point or stare), exactly what behavior i expect from them etc. they did great (the dr was impressed by the end of the visit as well) and have now been exposed to some diversity that they otherwise may have never seen. i hope that if there is ever a child in their class with terets or something they will be one of the kids who don't stare and never speak to the child, but can ignore it, know what's up, and make a new friend. if i never took them out this opportunity would have passed me by. i took my kids to all my prenate checkups (with exclusion of the gyno type exam ones, the dr always told me what to expect for the next visit). let me think, is there anywhere else i take the whole clan.........lol some days my kids are on one and make life hard, but for the most part they are great. i can take them most anywhere. i think it's important to do so. and i constantly get complimented on their behavior, in chruch, restraunts, dr offices, stores, etc. lol oh, my oldest two (just turned 6 and 5 this summer) love to go to plays, we go as often as occasion will permit. that one is frustraiting cause most plays (even childrens plays) have age limits and they are only just now getting old enough to qualify for most. i guess that is all for now. lol

you could pick a middle name that would be said with the first, like molly ann or something. might distract from the molly mormon thing, also would make her more unique if there was another molly around. in the south ppl use two names all the time. i met a mary morgan and a mary cathrine in the same day. but don't use molly morgan. i personally wouldn't want the molly mormon thing hanging over my head growing up. other than in the chruch around here ppl wouldn't even notice it (being so few lds at school). out west i'm sure it would be different.

thanks for the replies. some of it i thought "i knew that" seems so obvious. lol and other stuff is great but i would have never thought of. any other ideas feel free to share.

i've got some girls scheduled to come to my home so i can meet and interview them as possible babysitters. but i just realized, i don't know what to ask them. beyond the obvious; experiance, references, rate, avaliability times; what do i want to ask? this is important, these are my kids. what are some of the things yall would ask? i've thought about discussing my son that has epilepsy (he hasn't had a seizure since going on medication and it is working, but there is always the chance that he could have one). if they know what to do or are even comfortable with that possibility. they might would have to administer his meds (which is easy to do) but again would they be ok with that. i'm also thinking about asking how they would handle my little banshee's fits. other than that i'm at a loss. ideas?

i too was shocked when i saw it, and had never heard of it before. i'm glad it was helpful.

is the fraud in the chruch or his personal life? not that it matters i guess. not supporting doesn't mean you will automaticly be chastized or lose a temple recomend. i recently could not sustain a member of stake leadership in branch conference. i just knew i was going to be "in trouble" but i could not sustain this man (due to actions in his personal life). i did have a meeting with the stake pres after sacrament meeting due to my raising my hand to opose. i explained who and why. the stake pres supported me, said it would be looked into and action taken as soon as possible. now i leave it in their hands. i still have my recomend. if there is something that is wrong that's not rating someone out. i have this problem with my kids. i have taught them to tell me when a sibling is doing something they shouldn't. they get to school and are told they can't tell on anyone cause that makes them a tattle tale. (however you spell that) i've been trying to now distinguish the difference for them. if you take a toy from your younger brother and he hits you in frustration and you tell on them but not yourself you are tattling. if it was an accident you are tattling. if no one was hurt but you want them to get into trouble you are tattling. if you only tell half the story so they get in trouble but not you that is tattling. if your younger brother scales the kitchen cabnets and gets a knife to cut himself an apple, that's not tattling. if they are just attacking or hurting you without provocation that's not tattling. if someone at school is stealing from anothers desk that's not tattling. if someone is selling drugs in the school yard that's not tattling. if someone is touching you inappropriately that's not tattling. i would much rather my kids come to me with to many things and have to chastize them for their actions than have them keep important information from me. back to the chruch issue. sounds like you should take it to the bishop or even the stake pres. keep in mind however he does probably get false accusations all the time, so bring evidence if you have it. he probably won't go off half cocked and go after someone with no evidence. but he does need to know. pray about it, choose your words carefully, then leave it in his hands. don't lose your salvation over someone elses. an example of something i'm sure stake pres and bishops get a lot of (and thus the need to have evidence and patcience with your leaders). my husband's ex tries at least once a yr (usually more) to have his temple recomend removed for not paying child support. this woman never comes to church, and has in court documents expressed a hatred toward the chruch. yet she shows up, no eveidence and demands my husband's temple recomend be removed for not paying child support. our branch pres is always called to "investigate" this claim. my husband is then interviewed, where we have offered, but not been asked to do it, to bring court receipts and the childsupport order in so as to prove that he has paid in full as ordered. in frustration we asked him about this, it gets tireing to be brought in like this all the time, on the complaint of someone that hates the church. he asked us not to let it upset us, it was a formality of responding to a complaint, and that before any said complaint would ever be acted upon she would have to bring in more than her whinning to back it up.

so my spelling may appear as to be keeping in line with the making dr t feel better, but i can't claim that, i just can't spell. i've enjoyed reading this topic but avoided saying anything .... well, rather frankly cause i'm afraid of looking dumb. some of you guys blow me out of the water and make me feel like i know nothing. but i'm gonna throw my hat in the ring anyway and attempt to put my opinion on something into words. the whole "can god sin? could there be sin in heaven?" thing. the way i guess i see that, though i'm sure overly simplistic, goes back to an article i read (way back in high school so no i can't reference it) about hypnosis. there was the whole argument as to can you be made to do something under hypnosis that you wouldn't ordinarly do. the whole test was they took a group of ppl, one at a time, and under hypnosis told them that they were going to have tea with some horrible horrible person (they went into detail of how and why he was horrible) but that he had escaped the law. there would be some sugar cubes on the table, some marked as having poison in them and others safe, and when they had tea with this man they were to give him the poisoned sugar cubes in his tea. they were assured that they were doing the world a favor and this needed to be done. not everyone would poison him. some even under the hypnosis refused to "kill" this man; though in agreement that the world would be better off without him. the conclusion was that if it's not in your capacity to do something not even hypnosis can make you do it. that's how i see sin after this life. everyone, even god, has agency; the capacity to make a choice and the ability to act on it. by default that means yes they can sin. as for god, i think he can't sin, not because he can't, but because he won't. his heart is such that it's not in his capacity to do so. just as we can become and should become like that. i think to make it to the celestial kingdom we must have that change of heart, one that is so compleat and pure that we can't sin. not because the choice is gone, but that it's who we are. so i guess i'd say it's not that we couldn't sin in heaven, but there will be no sin in heaven. not sure if that makes since. or maybe i've said what yall have been saying all along but it was over my head so i missed it. humm.....i will probably wish i had stayed out of this topic later.

ok so the manzere stuff is funny, but back to some seriousness on the subject. this was emailed to me today. http://fisherinteractive.com/komo/ibc/komo_ibc.wmv http://www.komotv.com/ibc/

the article felt to me that there was a bit more attitude than just "i won't pay for it". go to the court house on your luch break i think the one said and the other give a bus ticket to vagas. i think those kinds of statments somehow imply that the union isn't as good, is worthless; and serisously how many ppl bring a large group to those places to marry (especially lds)? i think they sounded rather crass, however, didn't hear the whole thing or what was actually done; maybe they were just venting together. anyone who has ever heard me vent knows there is a lot said that after calming down isn't done. i see this attitude a lot here in all faiths (as others have pointed out). i think what makes it so much more obvious in the lds faith is we put the emphasis on one place; the temple. that not only limits locations but guests, so it becomes (sometimes painfully) obvious to everyone that loves the couple and wants to celebrate with them that it is or is not taking place in the temple. among the baptists and others i know that are just as headstrong on staying (both for choice of spouse and sometimes but not as much location) within your own faith there is still plenty of choice and they can still invite all they would like. they may insist that they marry baptist, even insisting on a baptist minister to do the ceramony, there are many choices, location and guests aren't limited so ppl (particularly the guests) don't see the pressures as blatently obvious. as for paying for things. i think the parents under any circumstance, temple or not, should have the final say in what and how much they will pay for (this goes for school too). i think it is stupid for ppl, the couple or their parents, to go into so much debt that they could have bought a second home over a wedding. yes it is sacred (no matter where), yes it is important, yes it should be celebrated; but at some point all the festivities (stress of getting things just so and worry over the cost and how are we going to pay for this, etc) distract from the vows. if looking at just the bottom line on weddings, temple weddings, even if you choose to have a huge reception, are far cheaper than the average wedding. i could see and support a parent who said, look kids i only have X amt for your wedding, that will get you a grand temple wedding and reception and that is your choice if that's what you do, but if you choose not to, i will do all i can to help and support; but i still only have X to spend. but take that X and plan, budget, spend in such a way that you get them most everything they would like within your budget. there are some mormons (as with other faiths) that take it to extream. i don't think who one marries (or where) should ever be a reason to sever family ties. i don't think it's doctrinal or is taught in the chruch to do so. in my opinion the worse the person is the more they need us to be there, cause when it does go bad they will need somewhere to turn, not to feel alone. we can set boundries (and should) and when appropriate express concern; but never sever our ties to them.