The Folk Prophet

Why wasn't Martin Guerre better? It was, by far, the most anticipated musical for me ever. I was SO excited by it. And then... I mean...it was okay. I still love things about it. But overall, it just wasn't as good as Claude-Michel Schönberg and Alain Boublil's previous two (Les Miz and Miss Saigon). Yes, they tweaked it and re-released it. But they didn't fix the actual problem. They added new songs that were great. Sure. But they ruined the wonderful orchestrations of the first version by cheaping out on the second version. Overall, I like the original version better, but the re-work included Live With Somebody You Love and Justice Will Be Done which were both wonderful. I can only imagine if they'd had better orchestrations. But.... Anyhow, the actual problem... the story. When I first looked up Martin Guerre when I heard that it was their next musical (because I'd never heard of Martin Guerre), I saw that the movie Sommersby was based on it. I loved that movie! So intense and emotional and powerful. Perfect musical material! For those of you who aren't in the know, Martin Guerre is the story of an imposter. It's based on a real individual. After the real Martin Guerre left his wife and son, someone showed up claiming to be him. He lived with Guerre's wife and son for three years, but then was eventually discovered. The real Martin Guerre retuned for the trial, etc. Here's the wikipedia on him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Guerre *SPOILERS: The movie, however, left people in the dark over whether the man was an imposter or not (though it implied he was), and he died in order to save all the good work he'd done, the honor of his wife, etc. And that sacrifice was what made it powerful. The musical followed the truth a bit more, I guess, and you knew the man was an imposter the entire time. And it just wasn't that powerful. Man I wish they'd just done Sommersby set to great music. I mean, sure, call it Martin Guerre. But...there you go. Anyhow, still a loved show of mine. Particularly the original. I mean I only know it from the cast recordings, and because it wasn't popular enough there was never a complete recording, which is unfortunate. My wife actually got to see it in London when it was on originally. She speaks fondly of it. I'd still call Martin Guerre a good show, overall. I'd still say it's one I like a lot. There are some really great numbers in it too. That's as comparted to their fourth effort, The Pirate Queen, which just stunk up the universe. I really wish they'd write another one. They, apparently, having had the mega-huge success with Les Miz and huge success with Miss Saigon, and then faltering with Martin Guerre and taken a huge old face plant with The Pirate Queen, decided they'd done enough and have no new ambition. That's too bad. Rogers and Hammerstein had some less successful shows. They just kept on writing. I sure wish Schönberg and Boublil had done 10 or so instead of 4. But it seems not meant to be. Maybe they secretly have one last triumph up their sleeves. I doubt it. I mean their last work was 2007. Seems clear they quit.

We finished watching South Pacific again the other night. I gotta say, I was a bit put off by the weird filming colors and soft focus edges and stuff. I mean I think I always am, but for some reason I forget after a time and so it always surprises me when I go back and watch it again. I get, sort of, what they were going for. I just think it failed. Otherwise, I'm not a fan of the baritone/soprano leads. I much prefer the tenor/alto lead set up. Or, if you pull my arm, tenor/soprano. Baritone leads...no thanks. Let the baritones be the bad guys. Overall, though, I like South Pacific.

As a show I enjoy it. As a musical...the music's fine.

Do you mean Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory the movie, or is there a musical that I'm not familiar with? Apparently there's a 2013 musical that premiered on the West End. I'm not familiar with it.

That doesn't mean it's healthy, useful, or good.

No. Unless it's a father's blessing, or the bishops blessing is actually within his stewardship like setting someone apart. A generic blessing is not the bishops stewardship any more than anyone other priesthood holder's.

The question itself seems flawed. Why don't friends, etc. have stewardship to give me blessings? [note: they do]

This is silly on a few levels. A. What does reading it "all the way" through have to do with the promise given? B. The Lord's promises are the Lord's promises and He will fulfill them. C. The promise is not "if you read it all the way through you'll have a spiritual experience". It is, that when we read these things if we: remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men ponder it in our hearts. ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ And if we do those things, He promises that He will manifest the truth of it unto us, by the power of the Holy Ghost. Period. He will manifest the truth of it unto us by the power of the Holy Ghost. If He does not it is because we haven't done our part. So what is our part? It's obedience. ALL blessings (including spiritual confirmation of truth) are predicated upon obedience to law. If we obey, we will have spiritual experiences. So in that regard, I think there's a level of merit (sort of) to the suggestion that we stop seeking spiritual experiences....sort of. But not really though. It's a matter of focus. For example, if your objective is to drive to the store, then to say you should stop worrying about driving to the store to drive to the store makes little sense. But if you're unable to drive to the store, then it's probably reasonable to ask why you cannot. Is the car out of gas? Is it otherwise broken? Do we know how to drive? Is a road built that goes to the store? Etc., etc. The spiritual experience is the means whereby we know God. It is imperative. We should seek it above all else. But..... that means looking at the how of it. What is the how of it? I'll restate: Obedience. So, yeah. Focus on obedience to that end, instead of merely that end. There's some validity in that idea. To just cast of spiritual experiences as unimportant is severely flawed though.

This was my sense.

Argumentatively true... I say "argumentatively" because I would argue that with modern CGI capabilities that there's little difference between what one could do with animation and live action. The formulas aren't fully translatable yet, but they should be. There's clearly a block in movie-folk's mind on the matter. An example of this can be seen in Sonic. The original preview had a "realistic" sonic to try and match the real life. When they got terrible feedback, they cartooned him up, and it worked, rather well I think. Yes, the expressions of the reindeer in Frozen might be problematic to translate...but otherwise, what about that movie couldn't be live action? And why couldn't it work just as well in every way if it was? Frozen II as well. Additionally...if you took Les Miz and didn't do the two things that ruined it (putting star power above singing prowess, and having them sing live on set when filming) then it could have been fantastic. There's nothing problematic about it otherwise, really. That was less about the movie folk not having the right formula as it was about them not understanding that that specific musical needs great singing above all else. Alternatively, Sweeney Todd worked wonders without great singers -- because Sondheim isn't a singers song writer, partially. Sweeney Todd captured the formula pretty well, I'd say. So did Into the Woods, actually. The live action-ness of these didn't do anything to hurt suspension of disbelief. Granted, these are sung-through musicals. And that, in my book, works a charm both live action and on stage to the acceptance of story through song. (Basically, it's opera.) I think Miss Saigon could absolutely kill as a Movie. Gritty, live action, Viet Nam era with full on singing throughout. They were planning on doing it. I'm not sure if they are any longer. Of course it might suffer the Sweeney Todd problem of ending up being R-rated, which is not a good thing for a musical any way you cut it. (It's annoying to me that every version of the Miss Saigon (in recording and staging) has gotten progressively raunchier. Anyhow, I think you left out Man of La Mancha and Scrooge from your working 70s movie musicals exceptions. Of course maybe those weren't big enough hits and that's what you mean by "working". If you mean working as in actually work even if they don't sell as well then they need to be included. (Scrooge has a few flaws, but overall, it works quite well, imo. But I may be biased by sentiment.) Edit: As I said earlier too, I'm hoping Stephen Spielberg's West Side Story version cracks the code.

I've seen that clip. I don't fully agree with Ashman on the point though. Even more-so with modern CGI capabilities. It does take a different approach to pull it off in live action though (see the live action Lion King as a primary example how to not pull it off...though I'm not sure the singing was the problem there...). And it is, perhaps, more challenging -- maybe... I think probably just "different" challenging. But really the part I disagree with is that suspension of disbelief that a fish can talk is the same suspension of disbelief that's required to accept people bursting into song or that the one correlates to the other (though I grant that the expectation of music in an animated film might be higher). Moreover, live action movie musicals were highly successful and there are many examples of them working very well before The Little Mermaid came along. I'm not saying I don't understand his preference to sign on to animation. And credit due. Ashman was the genius behind the Disney Renaissance. But really the problem of suspension of disbelief in a musical is a cultural thing. No one had a problem with it in the 40s, 50s, or 60s. By the 80s it was passé and kids weren't buying into it. That's a cultural result derived from various things. But it's not indicative of the medium itself being a problem as to suspension of disbelief. Ashman may or may not have been plugged into that idea. Really though (and this is my actual disagreement), accepting a musical as a form of entertainment is not about suspension of disbelief. That's a bit of a semantic argument because, of course, by literal definition one could make the argument it is. But it's different. It's not the same as, "You'll believe a man can fly!" No on believes someone would burst into song. It's not belief they're suspending, even in the moment, in the same way it is buying into a fish talking. Music is expressionistic. It's representative. It's not a cold, hard thing happening in the same way a fish talking is. You aren't buying into a reality that people sing to each other in this world. You're letting the singing represent something else. (I know...semantics. Argumentative. But I think there's a reality to what I'm saying.......I think....that would serve those who create musical movies if they understood it. Ashman, for example, was adamant that the music started underneath the dialogue so the talking flowed into the song naturally. And that's fine as one approach. And it works well. But there are many fine examples of people breaking into song otherwise in movie musicals that have worked. And I don't think that's key to Under the Sea having worked. If Sebastian had said, "Ariel, listen to me. The human world is a mess. Life under the sea is better than anything they got up there..." and then the orchestra had kicked into the Caribbean rhythms as he took his place in front of a band and started singing would it REALLY have hurt the show much? I'm not saying it isn't better as is...but I'm contending maybe it's not as key to the song working as he implied....) That being said....I do get his point as a box one could work in to make life easier. I just think there's some definite outside the box thinking that is fully legitimate as well. Maybe. In other words, people whose primary critique of musicals is, "This is stupid. People would never break into singing and choreographed dance in real life" are missing the point by a long shot. If the musical creator is trying to sell that angle, they already failed. Thoughts?

I think that it depends on a multitude of factors and that there is no yes/no answer. I believe some are better as movies. West Side Story and Fiddler on the Roof are two examples. The stage versions lose something, in my opinion. Man of La Mancha is an interesting example that loses something in both forms. The stage loses the realism of the real inn and the gritty reality of real life. The film loses the creativity of the play within a play. The movie does that too...sort of. It's a play within a movie....but the play then is shown as reality....but it doesn't have the same, "that's clever" sort of feel, etc... Really though, it depends on so many factors. Some things work better as a stage play. Dance numbers are one example of that (usually). Dance numbers on stage usually work. Those same numbers in a movie can sometimes kill the show. But even when they don't, they still don't work as well as live. Live orchestra also has something about it that just can't really be recreated with a recording. You feel the timpani hits and the loud brass melts your face. Live orchestra is something to hear! Recordings don't translate -- ever. Even a small orchestra playing live can punch in ways that movie music can't. Alternatively, small orchestras can also stink, and a movie allows for a bigger orchestra and perfected takes. So...... It really just depends. Mostly though, I think skill is skill. The right director/producer/talent/etc. will sell a movie. The same is true of a stage play. People who understand the property and build it right for the medium in which it's being presented will create art. Most musical movie failures are failures of the creators, not the property.

So, I've been kind of wondering how Steven Spielberg planned on improving West Side Story. In some ways, the original movie is put together very well. There's some obvious flaws, and I think fixing those is likely...but in some ways I wondered if it would just be "different" instead of better. But one way this trailer indicates he may have improved on it is in the "movie score" part of the movie. Like backing the dialogue scenes with big orchestral emotional stuff like in the trailer. That could really up the ante with the emotional punch. I also think the original missed the boat on the ending with the acting (or director's direction on acting) choices, and that will probably be more punchy too. And I expect the rumble to be more intense. And I know that Steven Spielberg will improve the overall cinematography and lighting and what have you, which in the original was hit and miss...sometimes great, and sometimes terrible (like the monochromatic lighting during the song Maria which just looks terrible.) Either way, I expect this to be a shining example of how to do musical films now-a-days correctly. I hope that's true, that it's a hit making tons of money, and it inspires other great musical movies to be made.

I watched the trailer for Diana: The Musical coming to Netflix. I hate it already.

I'm not familiar with it. I'm not a fan of Green Day. In that grunge rock world I'd go with The Offspring instead.

I'm not sure what tastes might overlap but just for fun here are some of my other favorites in the rock and or roll world. Metallica Queen White Zombie Rob Zombie Children of Bodom Meshuggah I like lots of styles of music here and there.

I've always secretly kind of wanted to write a heavy metal opera. But....I won't ever.

I think you'd be surprised. Don't get me wrong. The problem with rock in musicals to me is like pineapple on pizza. It just doesn't belong. Give me rock when I want rock. Give me musicals when I want musicals. That being said, it can work. I secretly really like Jesus Christ Superstar. I dislike the concept. I very much like the music.

Well good golly if I didn't enjoy that a lot! I have some critiques. And it's not like...super high art...but... Okay...here's my detailed review. Music-wise it's up there pretty high for Andrew Lloyd Webber. I don't know that I'd put any one song in his top 10. But there were several solid good songs. And that's not typically typical. In fact, Phantom is unique in that regard, in that it has several great songs. But Cinderalla did too, darn it all. In fact, I'd handily and readily put this in his top 5. Out of 20, that's not bad. Now for the critiques: Well, for one, I dislike rock songs in musicals. I don't mind back beats entirely. They can work. But just straight up rock orchestrations....no. (One of my reasons for not loving The Greatest Showman, I'm sure.) Now, to be fair, I happen to know that some of the songs there were studio recordings and I don't know for sure if the orchestrations match. I suspect they do. But I don't know for sure. But, for example, the song Bad Cinderella would have been better with more of an orchestra-y orchestration instead of the rock one, in my opinion. It could have had some elements of that...sure. But...well...there it is. Secondly, the song The Vanquishing of the Three Headed Sea Witch was terrible. I mean talk about killing the show. It should have been a short snippet, nothing more. Even better, do a flash back in the start of the show where the prince sings a short snippet about going off to fight the sea witch, and then reprise it here. Keep them both short and recitative in style instead of the mind-numbingly long straight up rock and or roll style song -- which was.....okay. I mean it sounded like a Tenacious D song (meaning a parody of DIO or something...). I dunno. It'll probably be @LDSGator's favorite song in the show. Sung by Adam Lambert for the recording (though played by another in the show, apparently). But whether one likes the song or not...plot wise it killed the momentum badly. There were a few other songs that did that a bit too...but not too badly. Forgivably. Not that one though. Putting that aside, the ending was...quick. And simple. But it worked. I found myself satisfied. Very much so. So that works. Finally...and here's the kicker for me... I found myself emotional a few times in the show. It was moving in parts. That's a good, good thing in my book. I felt for the characters. It worked. Simple. But it worked. Now I do place it high for an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, relatively. But that doesn't mean I place it that high overall. It's mediocre. It's fun. It works pretty well. I'll take it. But, I dunno. 3 out of 5 stars. Maybe.

Andrew Lloyd's Webbers musical Cinderella, apparently, has the soundtrack available on Youtube (I assume elsewhere too). Act I: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqtDYZpzYwR_vIQlpo-ZcIsxLy5F0mCWw Act II: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqtDYZpzYwR9fAEzoYmG-7OfzOehd0_eu I'm not hopeful this musical will be one I love, but the prospect of a new musical from Andrew Lloyd Webber to check out is exciting. Listening......now.

I agree. It wasn't terrible. But nothing super inspiring. I've only seen it once. I felt the This is Me song was a bit too on the nose progressive-leftist-gay-trans-whatever in intent. In a different culture maybe it wouldn't have come across that way. But.... There were a few musical moments and scenes I liked. I didn't hate the movie. But didn't love it. That's about all I can say, really.

So I specifically searched for the term "Mozart" to find this post, and you edited it (clearly to be more concise) and removed that side comment, but since I remember you saying you thought Mozart was the top in your view. though even before you removed it I wasn't entirely sure if you meant the top classical or the top period. Anyhow, I watched Amadeus again last night and had some Mozart thoughts that were new so I hunted down your now removed comment to comment upon. The first new thought: I noted that I didn't care for a lot of the Mozart music. I don't know for sure, but generally speaking, the music gets better and better through the movie, which I think (like I said, I'm not sure) corresponds to Mozart earlier works vs later works. Now I am not familiar with all Mozart. Even being a music major and having studied music, he was just too prolific, so unless one studies Mozart specifically in detail...or is some sort of really crazed fan, no one is. That is to say, he produced over 600 works. Ouch. But my sense is that his later works are what I really love. Some of his earlier works...not so much. (Thought maybe the earlier/later thing is irrelevant.) So the thought was this...maybe Mozart wasn't as genius as I used to think...he just wrote so much, and had enough genius that some of it rose to the top. Without checking out all 600 of his works I can't say for sure, but I can say that I just don't care for some of his pieces in the movie Amadeus. Alternatively, some of the music is just gold. The other thought I had: Mozart died at the ripe ol' age of 35. And had produced that gold by then. And when I say gold, I mean GOLD. You'd said, as I mentioned, that you viewed Mozart as the best in your view (or something like that), and there is no question anywhere, that I'm aware of, that he was the best classical period composer. But the best of all genres, baroque, classical, romantic, 20th Century...well there's going to be some debate there. Though I'd guess that in most debates Mozart would still rise, easily, to the top 3 or 4, and a great many would place him in the number 1 spot (as I would -- I mean you've got Bach, Mozart and Beethoven clearly up there, probably Wagner and Stravinsky... I mean there's your top 5, right? Some debate...but yeah....I think so*). Considering that, his early death, and 1 other point is of interest to me. Mozart died in 1791. Had he lived to (for math's sake) 100 he would have died in 1856. That crosses right into Beethoven territory. Beethoven's 1st was in 1800 --- only 9 years after Mozart died! So....what if? Double Mozart's musical maturity...he dies at 70 or 80, having written 1200 works instead of the scant 600. He competes directly against Beethoven as well. What might he have written? I think it safe to say these things would have influenced him greatly. I think he would have likely moved into the Romantic style. It was what became popular. And I expect he would have felt competitive with Beethoven. Anyhow, just some interesting thoughts I had. Not actually commentary on your now removed comment...just commentary that sprang from having watched Amadeus and then recalling you'd said something. *These would be my "top" based on knowledge, not taste. Taste-wise I'd take Bach and Wagner out and probably put in....um....John Williams? This list is interesting. Puts Stravinsky at #1. Has Stephen Sondheim at #43 though...and the fact that it has John Cage on the list at all.... To be fair, it was only 174 composers who where surveyed, which means it really likely only took one idiot mentioning anyone and they make the list.

I believe it is attributed to Albert Einstein. But I hate the saying: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Clearly Einstein never learned to play the piano.

Just to be clear -- the exception that the Spirit legitimately reveals to someone always applies. I'm actually less stringent on things than I'm coming across I think. I think casual selfish abortion is an abomination. But I also understand that everyone will stand before God accountable for what they have done with their agency, and that abortion choices will play into that in a perfectly fair and just way. The church's official position is not a legal theory. I separate the two things in my mind.