The Folk Prophet

There are others.

Sorry for the self quote...but I was thinking about The King and I and had some thoughts. In part, I was looking at the songs online (probably Wikipedia or something) and noted that I actually don't really care for a lot of the music therein. It's.....fine. But nowhere near Rodgers and Hammerstein's best work. (Not their worst either.) In fact, the overall music in Flower Drum Song is significantly better imo. Not exclusively. And subjectively. But The King and I's music is...dry. It bores me. When I watch it I want to skip a lot of the music. I generally tune out mentally during a lot of the songs. But as a show...it's very good -- whereas Flower Drum Song, as a show, is very bad. The King and I is moving. It has meaning. It's has great acting. It's a good movie. But the music is....meh. A lot of musicals have moments of "meh" in the music. Gems where all the music is good are rare. But even more rare are musicals that I truly enjoy, but find the music throughout to be mostly "meh". The King and I is pretty unique in that regard, I think. Maybe I'll think of other examples. That being said, if the King and I had incredible music along the lines of Roger's and Hammerstein's best (The Sound of Music, South Pacific), then it would be one of the best musicals around, instead of being kind of middle tier.

Maybe. But I appreciate it anyway because it was a springboard for further thought on it. I've been trying to think through my own feelings on the issues at BYU and in the church. It is, indeed, a difficult thing.

This. There are a lot of musicals like this. They're manufactured. They take a property and convert it and it sounds like it's done by committee. Movies, of course, do the same thing. It's a cash grab. It's not high art. (Are any musicals "high" art? I think not...but you probably get what I mean.) They're fine. I don't hate most of them. I didn't hate that song. I just don't like it. If I was invited to see it I'd probably enjoy it. But I wouldn't spend my own money to go see it. I wouldn't purchase the soundtrack, etc. This sort of thing is fine. But it doesn't fit into the circle of musical theater that I'm interested in. But I can see, and respect, that some people enjoy this sort of thing more than I do. And, hey...as discussed previously...I don't like rap music either. some people live and die by it. To each their own, I guess.

I stand by my initial assessment after listening to this song. Silly.

Haha. I thought at first you were meaning The Rocky Horror Picture Show. And I was thinking to myself..."Really, Gator....you can't guess what I think of that?" As to the Rocky musical, I'm not familiar at all, other than I saw one little clip once where they were doing Gonna Fly Now. I have the same impression you had at first. Sounds silly.

It's a very difficult subject, and I'm sure I'm off in my thinking in some ways. But it strikes me that a lot of "middle ground" is a good way to inadvertently increase the problems rather than help in the overall grand scheme of things. There's a simple principle of the gospel. You cannot stand with one foot in the kingdom of God and one foot in Babylon. You can't be lukewarm. No one who looks back is fit for the kingdom of God. Etc., etc. To me these sorts of ideas make the response of the church via policy very difficult. It's a balance between allowing wheat and tares to grow together, lest you inadvertently destroy some of the wheat while trying to remove the tares, and setting standards that clearly dictate the need to get on board and commit and to get both feet out of Babylon. Middle ground policies, to my thinking, run the risk of teaching people that it's okay to fence sit. It's okay to dabble in Babylon. It's okay to let your minds and hearts be of the world, rather than just in the world. Additionally, no one has ever been excluded from coming to Christ. Not by harsh policies. Not by His commandments. Not by temporal restrictions. None of those sorts of things have ever restricted anyone from humbling themselves and turning with full purpose to Christ. Every time there is a "middle ground" policy change to accommodate people under the idea that they are being excluded otherwise, a false principle is, perhaps, inadvertently being taught -- that you don't have to humble yourself and come to Christ with full purpose of heart. Just complain, rant, and rave enough and then the church will change to accommodate you. But that's not how Christ's gospel really works. He stands with open arms. But we must come to Him. We must knock. We must ask. We must humble ourselves. We must choose to obey. We must endue to the end. So to me, when people are struggling to humble themselves and the church's response is, "Oh...you poor baby...let's change things then so you don't have to humble yourself" it doesn't strike me as necessarily a good thing. But as I said, I'm sure I'm off in my thinking in some ways. And it's not my purview whatsoever. And I trust the leadership of the church to guide it by revelation. So...we'll see. It'll be interesting to see what they do with BYU and church guidelines moving forward.

Holy cow. How did I forget about that one?! One of my wife's most favorites. Silly. But fun.

Speaking of Marni Nixon, The King and I. Another fine movie musical...that's somewhat flawed...but quite good. Maybe they should have gotten Marni Nixon to dub over Russel Crowe for Les Miz.

My Fair Lady is a top tier movie musical. It's only real flaw is the boring On The Street Wear You Live song. Which is a fine song, I suppose...but a great example of bringing the story to a dead halt for a song. Otherwise I very much like My Fair Lady. And Marni Nixon is incredible in everything she does.

To be fair the ones with that many views are Metallica songs I added orchestra to.

Tonight we are watching Seven Bride For Seven Brothers.

Yeah, I totally agree with that.

I can't understand this sort of activist mentality on either side of the issue. Though it's usually more the people who stand outside Conference and scream terrible things at the people going. Why do they think that's a good idea or useful in any regard? And why did this kid think this was a good idea or useful in any regard? I mean even if you take away the slur word, why did he think this was a good idea? It's baffling. I don't like the idea of what the chalk messages were either -- particularly at BYU. But since when do two wrongs make a right? I agree that he deserves to be expelled. I also think BYU should have a strong policy against any sort of messaging related to pretty much any subject. The campus should not be a public forum for supporting gays, or for condemning them. It should not be a public forum for politics or causes of any sort. It should be neutral on almost all things in the public arena, and strongly pro gospel and pro education in the classroom setting. And by public I mean rallies, marches, protest, etc. That sort of thing should just be shut down entirely there. Draw a message in chalk? Expelled. Put up posters? Expelled? Hold a midnight vigil. Expelled. Chant or sing? Expelled. BYU is a mess.

I was going to comment on this before with something you said, but refrained, but now you've said it again so....it's not my fault! How is this sort of thing a threat to agency, exactly? If my wife doesn't do the dishes then I have to? No choice in the matter? No third option? Or fourth? Or tenth? That's not even going into the reality that you can't actually take away agency. I mean I suppose you technically could if you took away ALL choice...but taking away once choice doesn't mean agency, as a whole, is threatened. But even putting that aside, there's almost always a choice. Even when your husband (or wife) is a pig. (I mean there's always murder on the table, right?)

I was going too phrase the same point thusly: Looks like President Holland's "evil" plan is working. 😈

The great and spacious building on full display.

Crap. I am NOT looking forward to voting for Biden! Oh...wait...I meant Harris.

That's good since I decided to go with the ask for forgiveness instead of permission route a bit back there.

Yeah, I've seen that part before. It was, indeed, funny. Sure...it's making fun... counting on the fact that people are going to find the idea so ridiculous that it's funny... but in proper "Mormon" fashion, the "Mormons" just smile and say, "Darned straight!" I also love how the church took out a full page advertisement in The Book of Mormon musical's program: So much grace and diplomacy. Honestly a proud moment there.

I'm learning some of your real names here as you subscribe to me on youtube! Haha! Well...maybe. I guess people don't have to use their real names on youtube. Plus I have no idea who's actually who. I'm Charles, btw, for any of you who don't know. You all would know now since I shared my channel. But...I've often wondered if I shouldn't have just used my real name when I joined the forum. I've always tried to be representative of myself and don't particularly like some of the things anonymity brings with it in the interweb world.

Thank you for sharing that. I have always felt uncomfortable with that show but for the more obvious reasons. I think they do some (emphasis on some) funny things some (emphasis again) times. I even think the Joseph Smith song in South Park is moderately funny. ("Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb"). But The Book of Mormon musical just feels wrong somehow. Now I have a good argument against it. Thanks. (I haven't seen much South Park because it's too crude. But I've seen a bit here and there, and purposefully watched the Joseph Smith one.)

On these, additionally... After Les Miz and Phantom the "Mega" musical was the in thing, and there were a lot of knock offs...just like there were a lot of knock-offs of Harry Potter post it's success...a lot of knock-off extended universes after Marvel, etc... Typically knock offs are knock offs and don't live up to what they're knocking off. These shows and some like them are part of that syndrome...particularly Jekyll and Hyde. I understand that. I've spent 25 years writing knock-offs of Les Miz and Phantom. I wish all the extended universe ideas had panned out. I wish all the Harry Potter rip offs had panned out. I would LOVE more Les Miz and Phantom style musicals that were actually good. Better even than those two. We had, arguably, a few that were close. Miss Saigon. Maybe Sunset Boulevard. Jekyll and Hyde. But the mega musical was too expensive to make a return on unless you had a smash hit. So it died. And juke box musicals and known property Disney shows became the thing for the next two decades. Then we got Hamilton. As much as I don't particularly care for Hamilton, the existence of it excites me. But I'm also not hopeful. Why? Because the way the "knock-off" world thinks is: "Deadpool was a success...let's make our own R-rated superhero movie!" or "Extended Universes are the key to success..." or "Fantasy books where kids are in school together is what sells..." And of course all of that is nonsense. But what we'll probably get in the wake of Hamilton (If anything. The pandemic may have killed Broadway) is more rap musicals. Because...hey...the novel thing was the rap, therefore that's why it succeeded, therefore...more rap. Right? I wonder if anyone in Broadway-land has a clue that Hamilton is solidly in the tradition of the Mega musical brought back to life. Yes...it removes the ridiculous stage effects and stuff. But that's never why Les Miz and Phantom were so popular. So...it's smart to simplify. But that being gone means the producers will latch onto some other nonsense icing and ignore the meat. (I think I just mixed metaphors in a disgusting way...but......) My hope is that Lin Manuel Miranda understands what he did. He, after all, is a hip hop guy, but he's also a musical guy. He knows what he created and why. And he may (finger's crossed) realize that A. another hip hop musical is going to feel very derivative. and B. hip hop is not the key to musical theater's future. And...importantly...he's a really good song writer. So I'm hoping he writes another musical that's not hip hop and brings back the musical tradition that I love the most... through-sung dramatic pieces...but with quality and originality instead of the knock-off mentality that plagues everything so badly right now.

I think this is true of movies in general. There are some that break through with solid, meaningful story. But mostly it's all about spectacle. Good point. Good. But some weaknesses. Very good. But some weaknesses. The Anthony Warlow performance in the 1994 Complete Works version may well be the best musical performance of all time. As a story/play. Stinks. I mean it's not terrible. Just...you know...not particularly meaningful. It's light-sauce. Fluff. Some really great music...but not my favorite. I love Put On Your Sunday Clothes and We Got Elegance as music pieces...but not necessarily as musical pieces. If you took the music out of Hello Dolly though it's a throw away nothing. With the music it's classic...but... Plus Dolly is a jerk. That's never a good thing. She's supposed to be this beloved character but she's a manipulative jerk. It's not funny or endearing. It's just annoying. Cornelius saves the show, of course, as far as character goes.

Oh...and also @mordorbund, (sorry for the multiple posts in a row....), she had the magic healing power still (in her tears). That's how Eugene didn't die. So if push came to shove she could still easily prove she was the one who ate the magic flower or whatever. So neener and pooh on you. Edit: Which, oddly enough, if she didn't have that, so Eugene actually died, per my "it would be better that way" would indeed create the plot problem you indicate. Hmm.