The Folk Prophet

I started the book. Never finished it. Terrible. So dark and nasty.

Not a ton. Let's see... Hello Dolly. L'il Abner. Anything Goes. And...hmm. A play my mom wrote for our ward when I was a teenager. Keep in mind. I'm a composer. Not a performer. That being said, I do have a youtube channel where I sing some of the stuff I've written and am writing. I'll PM you the link if you want to check it out.

I haven't seen it either. So I'm only commenting on the music. Maybe seeing it I'd find it great. That's the case sometimes. For example... Miss Saigon's worst number by far, musically, is The American Dream. I first knew the show from the soundtrack, and listened to it all the time. I'd often skip that song. I didn't understand why they put such a terrible song in there. Then I saw it in London. The American Dream was a show stopper standing ovation number! It worked in the show. It worked with the dancing and the spectacle and all that. It just.....worked. But on the cast recording it stunk and still does. So....

On a side-note re: Schwartz as a lyricist.... the one time I really liked his lyrics was in Enchanted. Why? Because terrible lyrics and rhyme schemes fit the silliness of it so well. Enchanted was making fun of people breaking out in song...so awful lyrics worked very well.

On a more serious note of reply: First, Stephen Schwarts might be the worst pro lyricist ever. As a composer...meh. But really, other than Defying Gravity....what really great music does Wicked have? It's okay. But....yeah. Meh.

Ah...Wicked. Yes. Well..... not a fan. I was just joking about prejudice...and..... I think I have prejudice there. So take the following in the joking way it's meant: This will sound totally funny, seeing as we're talking about musicals, and a lot of people would claim this of all of them.... but... There are certain musicals that just feel..... gay. Yes....I know.... TOTALLY not PC to say that. But it's just like....you know.... people who love Liza Minelli and Barbara Streisand and..... Wicked. Just not to my taste, artistically speaking. Well...to be fair, Barbara Streisand's sheer, amazing, talent kind of transcends any of that. It's hard to not like something of hers somewhere. But maybe you get my point. Or maybe you don't.

It's not prejudice to dislike something that actually sucks.

Yes. BYU is a result, not a cause. The cause is a combination of things. The root of it, of course, is Satan's winning for the time, as we know he will for a time as the end comes. But next level up is probably family and parenting failures. And society's standards and views that naturally bleed into BYU. Mirkwood, I believe, said something about a cancer at BYU. The cancer is much broader than that. The whole world has cancer. Naturally it's filtered into BYU too. The solution is the gospel. The gospel is sufficient. The gospel teaches men to be as Christ. There is no better role model for men.

That’s a very interesting description, and one I can totally accept. It's pretty low level poetry though. A bunch of "fancy" rhymes. Well...okay...there's more to it than that I guess. He does, after all, sing about his "One shot" -- and then he actually gets, you know....shot in the end. So that's poetic. A bit on the nose, of course. But...

Give it a watch. It's definitely worth a watch -- especially if you're a fan already. I'm probably too harsh on it. There are some real genius things in the show.

I love Lea Salonga. But in this case...I honestly prefer the other versions better. Original Cast recording, Broadway, 10th anniversary (Ruthie Henshall -- probably my favorite). I love Lea Salonga in Miss Saigon and Aladdin and Mulan and the like. But her voice works better as a young love interest type character than it does as a tortured starving mother. Her voice is too sweet. Don't get me wrong. She's great. Just not my, personal, favorite.

So I was watching a youtube thing on the movie. So even Hugh Jackman, who is, reasonably speaking, a good singer who's done broadway type shows a lot, etc. was absolutely terrible as a singer in it. Apparently, in order to get the realistic starved look, he went through the same sort of crazy ordeal to get lean for it that body builders use, which is brutal to energy levels. And then because of the decision to film all the singing live on camera instead of pre-recording or something, they're singing for 8 hours a day, doing different takes...but you can't cut takes the same way you can in a normal movie because of the singing...so whole songs over and over again. And then the choices to really prioritize the "acting" instead of singing. And he's just terrible. He speak sings half of it. He's pitchy. His voice is unpleasant. And his rendition of Bring Him Home was the worst version I've ever heard of it. Anne Hathoway -- same sort of thing. She starved herself to look starved. Then cried for real through her singing. And whereas it was, in her case, some pretty moving acting, as a listening experience it's not very nice. Her I dreamed a dream was, at least, very powerful as an acting experience. So I'll give her that. Russell Crowe was, indeed, woefully miscast though. I don't think even pre-recording things would have helped there.

I haven't seen it live either. But I did see the filmed stage version on Disney+. I cannot understand why people like it. I REALLY don't understand why it's SO popular. I think it's awful. Yes, I accept there are some well crafted things therein. Yes, there are even a few musical moments that are great. For the most part it's not great music (when it has actual music), and I don't understand why anyone likes hip hop at all. I don't mean that as a one off here or there, like whenever I hear rap I immediately throw up or something. A rap song can work. A rap breakdown in a song can work. But a whole show of it? TOO MUCH. But even putting aside those distastes (because they are, after all, taste, which is going to differ for different people), I felt like the character arch of the main character (Hamilton, of course) was very flat. His character arch was that he was a bit of an ambitious jerk who committed adultery and then got himself killed because he was an ambitious jerk. That's not a compelling story arch to me.

Side note that's not musical related...I was a huge Pierce Brosnan fan from Remington Steele in high-school. To the point where I started wearing suits to school. Yep...I was that guy. As a suave James Bond-y type detective-y ladies' man, Pierce rocked. As a singer..... Here's my favorite thing he ever did:

@LDSGator I can't remember if we've discussed this one before, but what's your take on Hamilton?

With Pierce Brosnan singing?

Sometimes it's difficult to separate sentiment from things. I grew up watching Annie with my family. So I may enjoy it for that reason as much as anything. That being said, I still think it's objectively better than the other movie adaptations

Well I grew up on musicals. I always "liked" musicals. When I say got me into them I mean REALLY got me into them. I started writing them myself, etc., took the path of becoming a music and composition major in college to that end, etc. Edit: Keep in mind....I was in high school when Phantom came out. When my sister brought it home it was brand new.

Phantom is the musical the really got me into musicals. But it was the soundtrack. I distinctly remember my sister coming home from school one day with a cassette tape, saying, "Listen to this!" And pressed play on our family stereo system. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM BUM BUM BUM BUM BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM!!!!!!!!!!!! And I was hooked. Wide eyed and overwhelmed by it. And amazed at how familiar it all seemed and felt despite the fact it was the first time I'd heard it. Andrew Lloyd Webber is no Mozart. But he is oft times amazingly amazing at melody writing. Speaking of Lloyd Webber -- one of my other favorite stage musicals (I know only from the soundtrack too), is Sunset Boulevard.

Oh...speaking of ones that have been adapted several times.... Annie. The 1982 one is great. Silly, of course. Some flaws. But overall pretty good. Newer adaptations (of which there have been several) don't live up.

Agreed.

Les Miz failed because Tom Hooper and the actors thought it would be a good idea to prioritize acting over singing. And casting stars (pun not intended here...I mean movie stars)...was higher in priority that people who could do justice to the roles that require brilliant singers. Phantom failed kind of for the same thing. Casting an attractive movie star instead of someone who could sing. Really dumb. The phantom isn't supposed to be attractive. Sheesh. That's his whole schtick. He's hideous. So I almost think it's the opposite of what you're saying. They're trying too hard to do it different, applying "movie" skill sets, and accordingly gutting the musical parts of the musicals. Maybe. I hate Rent. Haha. I'm not familiar with Title of Show. I'll have to check it out.

I forgot about one of the other great movie musicals. The Music Man!

I watched West Side Story and Fiddler on the Roof back to back last week. I can't decide which is the better movie musical. But this much I can say. They are, without a doubt, top 2 in my opinion. Objectively The Sound of Music is as good a movie musical...but less my cup o' tea....er....cocoa...I mean cup o' cocoa. If I had to choose though, I think I'd have to put West Side Story as my #1. Fiddler is phenomenal. Maybe even objectively better. It's deeper in meaning. It's filmed better (for the most part). More grounded. Less...gang-members-doing-ballet-y (which I don't hate...but....objectively....I get the critique....). But I just like West Side Story. I'm really interested in what Stephen Spielberg does with his upcoming remake. I'm talking movie musicals. Stage musicals I'm more of a Les Miz, Miss Saigon fan. But the movie of Les Miz was, perhaps, the biggest piece of junk movie musical ever made. When it comes to Sondheim, I also quite love Sweeney Todd and Into the Woods, but really only know them from the recordings, having never seen them on stage. I've seen the movies, and although Sweeney Todd is one of the better recent movie musicals, it pales compared to stage versions where the singers can actually sing. (Speaking of which, I recently came across the version with Michael Ball and Imelda Staunton. Wow! But I've been thinking and wondering... Up and into the 70s movie musicals were, in my opinion, oft times stronger than the stage versions. Now I can't directly compare to the stage versions of yesteryear, having not been alive then, but I can to the stage versions of them I've seen. And even if they didn't completely out class the stage versions, they were still really well made, good renditions of musicals. Oklahoma, South Pacific, The Sound of Music, Man of La Mancha, the afore mentioned West Side Story and Fiddler on the Roof. These are solid interpretations of musical adapted to a movie. Since the 1980s movie musicals STINK. There are rare entries that are okay-ish. But way inferior to their stage counterparts. The most egregious of these being the Tom Hooper versions of Les Miz and CATS and the awful version of Phantom. To be fair, CATS is a garbage musical anyway, in my opinion. But the movie is even worse, removing the primary meaning and plot of the stage show.* Phantom is also a terrible musical but with some wonderful, wonderful music that almost saves it. As a soundtrack it does save it. So what do they do for the movie version... ruin the ONE thing it has going for it by casting a lead that can't sing or perform the part correctly! Seriously!? There are exceptions. As I said, Sweeney Todd was well adapted. Chicago was great (though not to my personal tastes). Into the Woods was okay-ish (some disagree...it was, in some ways, pretty gutted... but that's a longer conversation that I won't go into.) But why? Why can't they adapt musicals to movies any more with any level of proficiency? It's frustrating to me. What changed? Or do I simply see the "olden day" movie musicals through rose colored glasses? * Edit: The CATS movie, however, for some reason is a bit of a guilty pleasure. Something about it was actually enjoyable. Not enough that I'd own it or watch it regularly...but....

Starting a new thread.....