ElectofGod

This feels right to me too as you stated it here. However, the questions you bring up I have never found an answer to except by believing in the Doctrine of Eternal lives. If you want to learn that or know of it, well not here . But, its the only belief that can answer the "why" of every question and statement in your response. The difference between, a child who dies and one who does not. Lets look at this question. Since the OP is long gone by now Eternal Progression? No. Only with dominion, thrones, and principalities. Does His nature change? No. From the limited mind set of TIME at least. But that is because he already developed his nature into Perfection. Yet I believe one can change His nature, IF they are willing to all things heavenly father gives them, into that same being. That nature can be learned by subjecting oneself to true messengers. Such as the change of heart is the process that one has allowed the Holy Ghost to enter and be touched by the Holy Spirit. THAT is what changes our natural man tendencies and allows one to overcome the man subjecting the soul to the body. It is the spirit that changes our natures not US doing anything but ALLOWING it to. Thus life allows us to see if we will restrict the spirit of God in our life. Thus the phrase "repent or ye must suffer even as I"... They will suffer until they allow that spirit in their life. And what happens when that spirit enters? It changes them (quickens). The same way it does here. So maybe you are right our natures never change but our ability to allow our TRUE nature which is the image of God, to enlighten us?

There are dozens of pages and forums that bring up this concept. Lets just leave it up to those to discuss this. I don't believe in the doctrine as many call Multiple Mortal Probation's. I do believe in the doctrine of Eternal Lives. I have received too many witnesses to deny it. I would be rejecting the truth I have received which would come against me in the day of judgment. My understanding of it is more clear than most things of the gospel. Not to say I understand it as I know almost nothing. But you state a) we can progress and learn BUT b) our natures never change? Than what progresses and grows? That doesn't quite fit. The question is do we in THIS life change our natures? Or are our natures only being tested? Than I might add, were we organized in an imperfect manner to not have the "nature" of our beings capable of being like God? Otherwards, the measure of the creation is limited to what our "intelligence" is made up of? There is some truth to those statements but I do see them mostly to be false.

I have thought about this. I am starting to think the trials for being born IN the church is greater. I mean its all relative. Where does one grow up? What type of family? The challenges won't be greater for anyone because they were in or out of the church. They just may be different sometimes. I found those born in the church, take it for granted, can't separate traditions of men with the gospel of Christ, those who are converts have a greater appreciation for other faiths who some members (not all) like to shun, able to see things as they really are. But there really isn't one story fit all. These things relate to all faiths, in all places. You grow up the only mormon and get shunned by the community or you grow up a nonmember and have a difficulty of truly finding Christ if not born in a Christian home.

Always take the words out of my mouth but said it so much better. Though in vision, dream, etc.. They can be in more than one place at a time. Physically I think you may be right. Spiritually they can appear as if they are not.

Even if what you were denying was true, it would have nothing to do with him getting it wrong. His perfect infinite knowledge knows what is needed for every soul to come unto Christ. He knows what they must experience and if and when one will get there. The question I ask will their EVER be another telestial world in existence? In the millions of worlds that are to be created by all the people in the heavens that arrive to that station of the Gods? Did our Christ suffer for them too? Likewise, "how is that consistent with only do that which has been done in other worlds"? What were the worlds that God grew up in to prove himself? Who redeemed our Heavenly Father if he proved himself just like Christ did? Can a son redeem his own father if the son "didn't even exist yet". When you say "we" you do not include me in some of your thoughts there. Also, I do not believe in reincarnation as its a very false belief. I know some of the original 12 to JS tried to teach a form of it. I think it was in the book The Seer. Even Joseph Smith denounced reincarnation if I remember right.

Anytime someone seeks for that power they lose authority and the priesthood is gone. They don't have it. Likewise with the church members, anytime they exercise unrighteous dominion "amen to the authority of that amen" and are "left to kick against the pricks" amongst them-self. So they may perform any ordinance they want, but they do so without authority. Its a serious issue for both sides of the coin. We are not anymore safe than if it was done any other way. Except the fact we cannot choose a prophet based off "righteousness" but instead "seniority". I think it would be worthwhile to ponder this quote. I may have quoted it before. Now consider three terms. Prophet Revelator Seer. A Seer is also a revelator and prophet but that does not mean a prophet is also a seer and revelator. Don't we want a revelator not just a prophet or a seer? Orson Pratt was a very humble man and acknowledge what he lacked in. There are more severe quotes by others but this quote gets the point across. Likewise it shows we can sustain them all we want but it does nothing for their ability to connect to heaven. All we can do is pray for them that they can live up to their privileges. Which we should do. It really reminds me of Uchdorfts talk, "living beneath our privileges".

Than your one of the few. I know dozens of members.

I don't mind if its off topic. I like where its gone. Though do keep in terms with the terms and conditions if that is where you are leading. However, I don't think it is. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. We got it first, last.... Just like in the book of mormon they got it last, "first". Gentiles receive it in these last days before anyone else did. THan they will get it when the times of the gentiles is fulfilled. Its pretty consistent. Thus why is the plates revealed to us AFTER the times of the gentiles? Well we know the answer, because we are a wicked people stuck in unbelief. Now we have to repent until we are worthy of the greater things than we will be privileged to receive them.

I was not aware of the talk either. I actualyl came across teh talk looking for that exact subject matter. When I approach a subject like that at church I will find Conference talks or era talks that relate it very close to my desires. This way others won't feel like I am teaching something new. I think the lord led me to that talk. Interesting you highlighted those parts. That is what I focused on. Additional info below just for information for those interested. The commentary is myself. It is this principle that one becomes the son of perdition. When one knows God they are capable of falling. Basically when one has been promised eternal life with God and they deny that gift they are cast out of heaven. By looking in the mirror we shall be like him and see Him. For we are created in His image. As we grow from glory to glroy as mentioned in the verse below Fascinating stuff to ponder.

Purpose of existence is to be with God again. They will never be with God again. Unless of course they repent to what ever capacity is given to them in the next life. Though you could say they still filled the measure of their creation.

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Why did Christ tell his apostles that they couldn't cast out demons until they "had fasted and prayed"? Why must we be commanded in all things, the same being a slothful servant? If anyone tells you, you cannot fast or pray, they are preaching false doctrine, and a damning doctrine. Why in Alma did they gain power AFTER prayer and fasting? Why is prayer and fasting normally mentioned together in the book of mormon? Read Isaiah 56; 58. The first chapters tells us how and why to fast. It states their solemn assemblies (meetings, back in chapter 1 or 2) are wicked and tells us why in these chapters (56, 58). Than it tells us how to make them right before God which I think is 58. My chapters may be off, sorry if they are. Didn't look them up. These corss references will help. Isaiah 1:13; Isaiah 56:2; Isaiah 56:4; Isaiah 56:6; Isaiah 58:13; Isaiah 66:23 - New American Standard - NAS - Online Bible Study Go to this link and read the commentary. It will answer the last question. Also with chapter 56, and probably 1/2.. If time the entire book :) Analysis of Isaiah 58 by Hebrew Scholar Avraham Gileadi Ph.D.

There may be truth to what you say about being content whatever glory we are at. I struggle with this concept myself. I have never been able to find a quote to backup my thoughts on this until recently. I will post it as a pondering tool for others. Take it or leave it. There is no doctrine on the matter.

I gave this exact lesson to the elders quorum. I still got at the end by people, meh its not going to happen to me. I even followed the McConkie talk in conference without going off it. To error on the side of caution of not stating something I shouldn't. How to gain personal revelation - 1980 - June??? - General Conference. It outlines exactly what you stated using nothing but Joseph Smith quotes almost too.

I agree with everything you stated, which is almost all of it. Except what I left above. I have received my own Pure doctrine that did not come through the Prophet. Also: "Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof until long after the events transpire." (Scrapbook of Mormon Literature, Vol. 2, p. 173.) There is a major difference between opinion and things received from the Lord. Also how can we know if someone has received it from the Lord or walking in holiness before God? Personal Revelation. After one enters the path... 2 Nephi 32: The holy Ghost will show us what to do. No-one else can show us what to do. Likewise to the original post. Tell the person to take verse 4 seriously. Tell them to Fast and pray for an answer. "because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light"... Get an answer from the Lord.

A telestial or a terrestial world is not a passing grade. It fails the purpose of existence. The ability to have an eternal family. Though I did mis-read the original post where he was talking about the resurrected body only. So in that he was right.

And did you receive revelation on that? Find me one scripture. Doesn't doctrine come from common consent? Therefore if the people desire it, even if its false doctrine, it will be voted in. Therefore Personal revelation CAN go against church doctrine. "thou shalt not kill", "thou shalt not lie", "thou shalt not...."... Yet countless examples of of the contrary. This is just one case of how it CAN. I will always follow personal revelation over the arms of flesh. However, the scriptures do state "we shall neither be given in marriage nor taken in marriage in the hereafter". All covenants, contracts, bonds, etc.... must be entered into this life before the next life. If one dies, they must receive those, covenants, contracts, bonds, etc... before they can continue on. Though there does seem to be more to it that has not been revealed so I am not entirely sure.

Maybe so but I tend to think it will be a repetitive 1/3... Than again in the next life... 1/3... Until all are perfected in the bosom of eternity or assigned to the glory of the lower kingdoms. Look around us. How many are choosing God? VERY FEW. After all the 10 virgins story tends to make it seem like 50% will be telestial than the terrestial and celestial will get a chance to prove themselves further. Until they are assigned their glory of a terrestial, celestial world. So how many is left? VERY FEW.

Where do you live? Utah? I would get enough for your whole family. They may use the trying times ahead to repent, during the time where we won't be able to buy any food and only live off what we have. Perhaps than they will see the truth of the gospel of Christ. Grains (300-400 pounds per year) Legumes (60 pounds per year) Sugar (60 pounds per year) Dry Milk (depends, 19-60 pounds a year) If you had 360 pounds of wheat for example, that would give you 1 pound a day. That is two cups of wheat about and that makes around 4-5 cups of flour for the entire day. Likewise, 5 pounds a beans a month (total of 60/year) gives I think 1/3 cup dry beans a day. Sugar I am not sure, haven't calculated it, and Dry milk with 19 pounds I think was 2 Tbsps per day. Been while so it may be wrong. Minimum. So if you did ALL cans (small space) you can stack them 8 units high, or 8 cases (of 6 cans per case) which would give you if it was all wheat @ 5.5lbs a can, a total of 264 lbs of grains. Thats to give you an estimate of space. I was able to fit a years supply for two adults in two smaller closets. Store what you eat. Oats take up more space, rice is about the same as wheat, but don't store things that are not long term (except the short 3 month supply is ok). If you live in utah you can get buckets cheap at beprepared.com. In the store its about 23$ for a 45 pound, 6 gallon bucket of wheat that is already packaged for longterm. If you want cans go to the LDS cannery that is all pre-packed for you already. Two trips you can have all you need :)

Isaiah 58: 13 ¶If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

What great answers. Thanks :).

Ether 4 First we learn that "these plates" contain the record of the sealed portion. So who will reveal it? The record of Jared? Christ himself will reveal it to us. When will it happen? When we become clean from the blood of the sins of this generation. What are the consequences from this record and rejecting the information? Now how does it become revealed? Besides as mentioned in verse 7? The one who believes these things, receives them, bears records of it? What is he bearing record of? Who is bearing it? How is that record different than verse 7? Or are they the same? I am trying to connect verse 11 with 7. What do you think? What records are what? Is the Book of Mormon this record that we are rejecting in verse 7? Or verse 11? Does it contain the record of Jared?

I can't tell if I agree with your post or not. You stated it clearly but I am not sure how you are applying it to the eternities. I can see a way I would agree with it and a way I would not. Do we live vicariously forever and ever through Christ? Or do we ever have to overcome things we currently haven't later on? How is that done? When does it happen? What happens when we get to the Celestial kingdom? How do we progress? Where are we trying to get to? How many estates are there? What do we do when we become as God? How do we have children? Were do we have children? Do we have physical or spiritual children? How do we raise physical children in the eternities? Also spiritual children? Were will we beget these children? How does one qualify to create worlds?etc... I don't expect you to answer all those. Just some thought.

Absolutely true! God is no respector of people. He will judge all according to their works according to their desires of their hearts. D&C 137, D&C 76.

This is an important thing to understand. Whenever the book of mormon speaks of the gentiles it speaks of US, today. The ones who HAVE the gospel, the book of mormon. Cross references are posted below from lds.org Now its interesting to note, that we are not the house of israel, but it still applies to all still. What is said about the house of Israel applies tot he gentiles and vice versa. Such as Ezekial is a type of us and the LDS church like chapter 14. These two in particular show the consequences for all is the same.