sixpacktr

I have read most of the responses and thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. In the BoM, we read of Nephi (the one that prayed on the wall and prophesied that the chief judge was murdered by his brother), who, after proving his innocence, is left standing in alone after people have argued who he is (he is a God, no, he just got lucky, etc). It says he is pondering on these things and suddenly the Lord tells him: 5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will. (Helaman10:5) So the Lord knew that Nephi's heart was so in sync with His that he wouldn't ask anything amiss, or contrary to the Lord's will. The message this month in the Ensign by Pres Eyring focuses about having things 'written upon our heart'. So maybe, when we wonder about prayer, and answers, and the like, we haven't reached (in some instances) that perfect 'in-tune' state of having our hearts in sync with the Lord's, and there is still too much 'my will and not thine' in our words/attitudes. We already know, because of the teachings by the Savior, that our HF knows beforehand what we need, but we are still commanded to ask. The results of our prayers, particularly answers that match what we need (not necessarily what we want) perhaps lead to that increase in faith that Moroni speaks of in Ether 12 of there being no witness until after the trial of faith. I know personally that I have had prayers answered as I wanted, as I needed, and sometimes not at all in a way I would have imagined. I think our HF answers prayers as we want as much as he can, but as we would do to our little ones while still in our charge, we don't always give them what they want. We would be poor parents indeed if we gave them ice cream before dinner every night because that was what they wanted (simplistic example, I know, but you get my point I think). I think HF gives us ice cream every so often cause he loves us and wants us to love him. But more often than not I believe he makes us eat the entire meal, including peas and brocolli, before the treat because it is for our good. Again, not sure how much this touches on what Snow was originally getting at, but that is how I have come to understand prayer over the last several years...

Isn't that if you got a mild case of CP as a kid? I thought that if you get the full blown, scratch your skin off pox that you were okay against shingles later, but if you had a mild case that you may get shingles later on in life.

Yeah, they may be our friends, but when you get a little older it gets harder to beat the darn things. And I don't think that any of us, unless it is our own child, would really welcome a 'glazed donut monster' (apologies to Bill Cosby) sticking their hands into everything, and even then...! My wife and I are trying to get our older daughter to let our grandson get dirty. She wipes him clean so often that he will have no immunity to anything when he gets a little older and that would be bad. And Mahone, since I was once a young man, I can only imagine what they were doing. Glad you stopped 'em!

Which would you rather have: the 10 year old girl picking at her feet, or the 3 year old that extracts their finger out of their nose before rooting around in the bread for a piece?? Or the youngster, middle aged, or elderly brother/sister that sneezed into the water? I think these are some of the reasons why we should keep our heads bowed with our eyes closed during the sacrament! I'm getting the heebie jeebies just thinking about it!

\So, to make sure I understand this correctly, it would be like, say, Pres Hinckley's son taking some of Pres Hinckley's teachings, writing a letter to the Saints, and ascribing the letter itself to his father? So while the content is 'correct' as far as he put it down correctly, it wasn't actually Pres Hinckley sending out the letter, but only has his name so that we'll listen more carefully. Is that the gist of it? So it could have been that Paul told one of his helpers or someone close to write down those things for him and send it out? Kind of like dictation? Or does it have to be with out the supposed author's knowledge?

This has been an interesting thread on actual authorship. In answer to one view that Moses did not write the Torah (and I haven't studied this like you both have, but it just struck me), could it be like the BoM? Mormon did most of it and then Moroni finished it up. Could it be that Moses wrote most of it and that Joshua (or someone else) finished it up after Moses was taken? Just throwing something out there. But I have another question that I need to ask: what does all of this show? We believe the scriptures to be true as far as they are translated correctly. Is it the contention of scholars that Paul didn't write Timothy, Titus, etc., that Peter didn't write Peter, that John didn't write the letters, and therefore it isn't based in truth? I am being geniunely curious here, not trying to argue. I'm wondering if these weren't instead based upon letters then extant that were the basis of the books in the bible, kind of the 'reader's digest' version of several letter together so that we'd have the doctrine? A lot to think on and digest...

Exactly PC. I have listened to Rush since I returned to the States in 1990. I remember coming back from a doctor's appt in Des Moines to our little town in Iowa and had him on, and he was slamming the 'homeless' cause. It wasn't that he had no sympathy for those less fortunate: it was the people that took up the 'cause' and profited by it. He has, in all the years I've listened to him, never lashed out at the actual downtrodden, but rather their leaders that are using the cause as a way to fame, power, MONEY, etc. I have been a fan ever since. What most liberals fail to see in Rush is that he speaks for many of us (the lesser Rhinos, smaller gas bags, etc) just as Glenn does and Sarah Palin. We are tired of the false concern, the knee jerk 'look how I helped YOU lesser beings' type of attitudes of most politicians (Repubs and Dems alike) when they are in it for all of the wrong reasons. And that is where a lot of the libs are missing the boat. We want people that are down to earth, that are real, not some fake like many politicians that preach 'do this and do that' and then do the exact opposite because they have the power. Rush has been warning about a 3rd party, which most of us tea party people really want to see. Instead, he has been pushing for us to kick the McCains, the Powells, the 'moderate' Repubs out and take our party back to true conservatism. I just think he doesn't go far enough back. He thinks the 80s were good. I'd prefer to go back to the party of Lincoln instead, to truly getting gov't the heck out of the way. Anyway, this was originally about Glenn. If you hear his story, and listen to his show, particularly radio, he talks about what a slimebag he was, and how his conversion to the church was the best thing that ever happened to him. It changed him completely, which is what the true healing power of the Christ's atonement does: it, as Pres Benson so eloquently stated, 'makes bad men good and good men better'. And THAT is what life is really all about...

Glenn Beck is great. I have listened to him for years on radio, and he started with more humor around his commentary. That was what I liked best about him. In the last couple of years he has gotten more serious about what is happening, and I can tell it is taking a toll on him. Glenn is the first to say he is a commentator, and it is his job to entertain us. Humor always draws people in, as we generally like to laugh. It was amazing to watch him speak on a BYU-I interview and how quiet and humble he is. I truly think he is a real guy, someone you could sit down and drink a beer with and just talk and be at home with (for us Mormons, it would be postum! (yes, I know, it is no longer offered on the market!)). He teaches truth to people more than they know. He teaches church principles on his radio and tv show all the time. I think the Lord is using him to reach those outside of our faith with principles we have been teaching for many years of preparedness so that they might avoid some of the peril that is coming, all too soon I fear. As for Colbert, yes, at times he is funny, but not as much as he thinks he is. I imagine he'll be one of the first whining about 'how did we get here' when it happens because he sold his soul for a few bucks by acting as entertainment for those that chose not to be warned...(Alma 30:60 and 2nd Nephi 26:22)

My scripture marking method is very simple, actually. I don't fill in the entire passage, but instead color around the borders. That way, if there is more than one topic (for me) in a passage, I can use more than one color. Yellow: 1st Principles and Ordinances of the Gospel, Revelation, Inspiration, missionary work Blue: Christ Green: Priesthood Red: Everything else I underline in pencil areas of the passage I find especially relevant to me (so it is colored and underlined), as well as using a very fine pencil for making notations, comments, etc., alongside or at the top of the page. Sometimes I will simply underline in the appropriate color if I am in the mood to (typically only a line or two in one verse). Anyway, it works for me.

Our Stake Presidency this year challenged all the members of the stake to read the New Testament and Jesus the Christ cover to cover this year. I can honestly say I haven't read the NT like that since my mission, because I am a Book of Mormon guy. I love that book. But I have grown to absolutely love the NT this year. I will share just one of the passages that I feel really puts, very concisely, our life here on the earth as Christians. It talks of trials and of the healing power of the Atonement and our Savior's love for us: 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (1 Peter 5:5 - 11) I have found great comfort in that passage. The Lord will allow us to be tried and will allow us to go thru trials, but afterwards he will make us perfect (holy), establish us, strengthen us, settle us. Grateful for inspired leaders...

that happened on this forum as well. After reading so many of the responses, I think that on the LDS Gospel discussion area, there isn't that much contention. We all pretty much know what is going on and what we should/shouldn't do, and while every once in a while a someone starts chasing a wild hare, it is pretty tame. The politics threads, and a couple of others, though, bring out the guttersniping. The church, by and large, is conservative. Those liberal Mormons enjoy tweaking our noses from time to time (c'mon admit it!), I think just for the sheer joy of it. Twisting the knife can be fun! I spent many years doing just that. But I left this forum because I didn't like what I was becoming. Too many arguments, too many posters that liked to go off in the tall grass just to show that they could. I came back with the resolve that for the most part I'll stick to the LDS Discussion forum so that my personal feelings don't enter into it as much. My wife tells me that when I get up to speak in Sacrament meeting (we speak 4 times a year) she gets nervous because she doesn't know who I'm going to offend next. I tend to be a blunt speaker, and take my calling seriously about teaching doctriine and making sure that people understand what the Lord is teaching us and expects of us. I tend to do the same here, not because of any 'holier-than-thou' attitude but because I feel I should proclaim truth when it needs to be proclaimed. When I state my opinion I try very hard to preface that statement as just that, my opinion, and welcome any other insights so that I can learn and be edified. But, and I know this will draw jeers, but so be it, when the Brethren or the scriptures have spoken on a subject, then I see no room for debate on its 'rightness' or 'does it apply to me' etc. It applies. I pray about it, ask to have a testimony of that teaching, and move on. I know that we are all at different points along the 'strait and narrow path' and some have wandered off into forbidden paths. But we all need to cling to truth and use it to guide us, instead of looking for ways around it because it makes us feel better about ourselves, etc. If I offended anyone, I didn't mean to. I really didn't. Maybe another reason for contention? People read into cold, black letters and words things the poster never intended, as they couldn't see the face/gestures, etc., if it were spoken. I had an experience with one poster writing me a note to my inbox recently stating I had offended her/him over a year ago and that s/he still holds that grudge because I had been 'mean'. I went back and looked at the thread and honestly couldn't see what I had said that was so mean. But a person's frame of mind at the time, their life experiences, their supper, etc., could have them in a mood that makes them read things into what is said that were never intended... Sorry to ramble.

In the Book of Mormon, we learn from the prophet Lehi that there must be an opposition in all things. I know that other religions do not hold to the concept of a pre-mortal life as we in the LDS faith do, so some of this may seem 'strange' to you, but it makes sense to me, and so I will try to explain as I understand it, with some scriptural back up for why I believe what I do. Satan wanted God's glory (Moses 4: 1-4). He put forth a plan, in direct contrast to our Heavenly Father's plan (which was also Jesus' plan, who is like the Father in all things, so much so that he told Phillip that if you'd seen Him (Jesus) you'd seen the Father, because their actions would be identical in whatever situation they may be found in). Satan, in my opinion (My OPINION, so take it with as much salt as you wish) had the same complex most younger brothers have: he was living in Christ's shadow (in his mind), and let's face it, that is an awfully long shadow! He wanted glory, honor, etc., etc., just like some (not all) younger brothers trying to impress their parents, and so he came up with an alternate plan: I'll get them all back, mortality will be taken care of by ME, but I want the glory and honor because I'm doing it all. So, the conflict of good and evil, to me, begins as a family feud between brothers (to be put very simply), one righteous and loving, one jealous and a glory hound. We chose sides there. All of us on earth chose Christ's plan. We wanted to be tried and prove to our HF that we would choose him in spite of the odds. In order for us to be tried, there had to be an opposition. As we all know, we don't really know what we'll do until we are put in a position where we have to choose, sometimes when no one is looking. Whether to steal, or lie, or whatever, if we aren't tested in our resolve, there is no real test. So Satan plays a role, but not the one he wanted. He, instead, is now trying to frustrate the plan that HF and Jesus championed, and again, IMO, he is trying to prove that his plan was better by destroying (as best as he can) those that follow Christ (in particular. See 1st Peter 5: 8-9). So while Satan plays a role, he wasn't 'foreordained' to that by HF. He chose it, and is allowed to tempt and try us (see the entire Book of Job) so that we can prove to God we will be faithful. As for the fruit and the Garden and Adam and Eve's part, our HF allows us agency in all things. He couldn't force them to partake and suffer the consequences (mortality, sickness, hard work, etc) but had to have them make the choice themselves (Moses 3: 16-17). So he set up the test, and allowed them to make the decision themselves. Again, IMO, we waited with bated breath for them to partake and that a great cheer went up as they did so (again IMO), as we LDS believe that part of the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve was their ability to have children, and thus give us an opportunity to come to earth and thus prove to God we would obey him in all things. Does that help at all?

Ummm, no beef. If you had read the original post, it almost seemed like the sister was setting up shop in the foyer (or, if we go by nearly every Mormon church I've been in, the chapel) and nearly hawking for her husband to give blessings out. Hence my phrase 'and definitely not their wives!'. And again, read the tone of my note as well. Was there any semblance of my slamming women in there? NO, there wasn't. Instead I said that blessings should not be solicited, period, but that there are RARE cases when the spirit touches you and says to the PH to ask the person 'would you like a blessing?' Never insinuated that someone, who, in quiet conversation with someone else, not suggest to them that they not seek a blessing. But to have a wife go around to people and then calling over to her husband 'hey, so and so needs a blessing and I volunteered you' is not right. So get your undies or garments or whatever out of the wad you've twisted them in and quit looking for reasons to be offended. My gosh, life is too short and it wastes too much of your energy. And Margin, thank you for understanding what I was saying and explaining it for me to the board. I guess I never realized how touchy some of the sisters on this board are. Oh, yeah, yes I did. I just have been away for so long I forgot...

We are not to solicit blessings. We studied this in our PH meeting this last week, and we just aren't to do it. That being said, however, there will be times when we are moved upon by the Spirit to gently ask someone if they would like one. Not loudly, not in a 'look at me' type of persona, but quietly, in a humble way. And I think those times are very, very rare. I have had that opportunity, only once in my life, where I felt prompted to ask a brother if he wished to have a blessing. As I was sitting on the stand looking out over the congregation, I could see pain there, and just felt prompted to do so. Even then, I fought it because I knew we just don't do that. But the Spirit confirmed that in this instance it was right to do so. And it was a sweet experience, and brought much comfort to him. So the Spirit should guide, as in all things. But, PH holders shouldn't solicit. And DEFINITELY not their wives! :)

This is a quote I used in a talk yesterday about hope. While not as 'exciting' as the faith promoting rumor that has been flying around for ages, it still lets us know who we really are, and what our divine potential is... George Q Cannon, in Gospel Truth, said the following regarding us and our generations: “We have got to be watchful, for I tell you God has sent us here to test us and to prove us. We were true in keeping our first estate. The people that are here today stood loyally by God and by Jesus, and they did not flinch. If you had flinched then, you would not be here with the Priesthood upon you. The evidence that you were loyal, that you were true and that you did not waver is to be found in the fact that you have received the Gospel and the everlasting Priesthood. Now you are in your second estate, and you are going to be tested again. Will you be true and loyal to God with the curtain drawn between you and Him, shut out from His presence, and in the midst of darkness and temptation, with Satan and his invisible hosts all around you, bringing all manner of evil influences to bear upon you? The men and the women that will be loyal under these circumstances God will exalt, because it will be the highest test to which they can be subjected.” (Gospel Truth, 1:7;)

Look to Job. Job was described as 'perfect and upright' before God, and yet he had some terrible things happen to him. With God's blessing, I might add. But the bounds were set as to how far the trial could go. Likewise, Abraham was chastened with the trial of the sacrifice of Isaac. I think that chastening goes to the 'hedge' idea you had in a lot of ways. If it is because of our own sins, then it is a natural effect of our actions, and I'm not sure that God's hand is in it so much, as we are then subject to a natural law. When the Prophet Joseph spoke of trials so hard that it would tug at your heartstrings, and if you could not endure it then you were not fit for the Celestial glory, I believe that he meant those trials that occur because of mortality, being in the grasp, as it were, of Satan and his minions. We didn't do anything, per se, to 'deserve' it, but that is part of the trial of faith that comes. The 'why me?' questions.

Well, no, of course not! I was not questioning the necessity of trials, simply the 'why' behind them, the deeper reasoning for why they are necessary to make us like God. What is the deeper purpose besides the seminary answer of 'gives me experience', etc.

I see what you are getting at, but somehow it doesn't seem to fit in with what I am asking. I think that it falls into the 'trials make us more dependent upon God', which, of course, is a good thing, but my original point was the WHY it was a good thing. As I've read a couple of the posts here, I see that they were going down that same road as me--trials are for our benefit, but it is more than learning to trust God. Traveler's thoughts got me to the holy-->sanctification POV, which makes sense to me. The constant companionship of the HG helps us make right choices, to the point where we act as God would act in our place (and vice versa). So trials help us become as God is, because, if we ENDURE THEM WELL, with humble hearts, we become holy, without spot.

Traveler, You've given me another tangent to go on here. So trials, by making us humble, cause us to 'find our knees' and beg for help, deliverance, direction, whatever our trial may be. As we become humble and supplicate for help, the HG is able to fill us with light. As we are filled with more light, and thus become more Godlike (increase in knowledge, either thru the trial itself and the ways of people, or thru those 'pure strokes of inspiration' that Bro Joseph spoke of), we come to understand, particularly, the power of the atonement in our lives to 'reverse' sorrows and such. As we understand the atonement more, it becomes more in force in this life, and not, as one speaker recently stated in one of our HC Sunday talks, as a 'get out of free card' to be used at the end, but rather here and now. And as we use the atonement in our life, Christ covers our 'multitude of sins' and we thus become whole, or one with Him and our HF (as you know, the better translation for the greek was whole and not perfect). And that gets us to the purpose of trials. We can become God-like, becoming like Him as Christ was like Him, or Nephi in 3rd Nephi was like Him (when the Lord told him to ask whatever he wished because He knew that Nephi would not ask for anything amiss or contrary to God's will). And that is sanctification, and we are justified in our actions because our HF knows that we would do as He would do, because our spirits are so in tune with His will. I have a new appreciation of trials. I love how Paul put in in Hebrews, how we wish we weren't in them while we're in them, but that afterwards we see the growth. But this thread has helped me understand more fully the deeper doctrine that lies underneath trials. Thanks.

So, trials give me humility, which gives me the opportunity for a closer relationship with the HG which in turn gives me pure light and knowledge, as well as experience. And as I gain more light and knowledge and don't abandon them, I become more holy....and thus more God-like...

Man, tons of things going thru my mind, want to get them down. This will be kind of stream of consciousness, but I hope I make sense. Still seeing some 'seminary answers' and I don't mean that in a snotty way, because I think we are conditioned to just think 'well it makes us humble', but Traveler and Hordak have got me to thinking along a different line. As I read their posts and thought of them for a couple of minutes, I had the word 'holy' pop into my head. We are to learn to become holy like our HF, and trials can bring that about. Another aspect of trials is developing faith in God, I know, more importantly faith in Jesus Christ and the atonement. The atonement makes all things right, eventually, because it reverses the affects of sin and sorrow. We know that thru faith the worlds were and are created, but was that faith in Christ that created those worlds? In Genesis, after Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, God noted that 'they have become as we are, knowing good and evil'. That is part of being God, obviously. There is no gray in heaven. It is pure light, because lies and deception and falsehood cannot abide the presence of God. Because he is holy. So, do trials help us become holy? Sanctified? More able to discern truth from error? God is God because the elements obey him. All things obey him because they know that he is ultimately right and all-powerful. If, however, he goes against his word, even once, we are told that he will 'cease to be God'. That, to me, would mean that the elements and others would no longer trust him to do the right thing, and would withdraw their allegiance. Withouth subjects, who can be King? As I said, stream of consciousness, but do you see where I'm going with this? God is holy. So, do our trials, in some way, sanctify us to become holy? Is that their purpose? We know that some trials are brought upon us by our own actions, some by the evil designs of others, some thru no fault of our own. They come in all kinds, sizes, and duration. But they are all meant to make us like HF. Thanks to all for their input. I hope this keeps going, that others will chime in. I feel like something is on the tip of my spiritual tongue, as it were, and that there is a breakthru about to happen to me, kind of a 'oooohhhhh, so THAT'S the reason!' type of understanding. Again, forgive the rambling scattered writing. Things are coming to me as I write and I wanted to get them down...

I knew I wasn't being very clear, mainly because this is kind of still forming in my head. I understand all the 'church seminary' answers to the question. We will choose right no matter what, we need to learn to trust in God, we will be refined. I guess what I'm getting at is that there is a PURPOSE to the trial that refines us and makes us more Godlike. That is the purpose of the trial in the first place, no matter what. But HOW does it make us Godlike? Becoming closer to HF and learning to trust him are not Godly traits, I don't think (and I can be persuaded otherwise, like I said, I'm thinking out loud here). Is it that we will always choose right? Is it that since we choose the right and trust God that the elements will learn to obey us because we are always fair, right, whatever, just as they do with God (even the elements obey him, he can't lie or else he would cease to be God, or the elements WOULDN'T obey him)? I know we shouldn't have things handed to us. But how do we become Godly thru trials?

I was reading in Hebrews this morning, chapter 12, which is a great discourse on trials and how we can know that our trials are proof of our HF's love for us, as he chastens those he loves, and that it proves we are his sons and daughters. I found great solace in that chapter, as my wife and I have been going thru a trial for several years now that seems to be 'never-ending'. But as I pondered that more, I was struck with the thought of 'why?' What are the purposes of trials? We believe that trials refine us, make us more Christlike in our demeanor (if we 'endure them well' obviously), but how does that make us more Godly? True, it makes us patient and trusting in God and his plans for us, and perhaps gives us empathy, and I know it gives us 'experience', as told to Joseph in Carthage jail. But how do they make us Godly? Is God simply very patient and empathetic to our plight? Is trust what saves us? Simply by having experience we become Godly? Our trials and lives in general are set up in such a way to get us to exaltation the quickest, again if we endure to the end and seek to be humble and learning. But how do trials make that happen? Am I being clear? I know the pat answers, and have a concept of it, but I don't think that learning patience in trials is what God is all about right now, or that he needs to have trust now, since he is exalted. Does any of this make sense? I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. I know that I am closer to my HF because of these trials, but how are they making me Godly?

PC and Vort hit the nail on the head. They had covenanted to live the law of consecration, then decided that they would only live part of it and then LIED to the chosen servant of the Lord about it. If they had told Peter the truth, or if they had decided to 'opt out' and let everyone know that, personal opinion is they would have lost blessings but not had the death sentence laid upon them. In truth, they had apostatized, after a fashion, in that they had been taught a principle, said they'd live up to it, and when challenged lied about it. There may be more missing from the story, but we need to look at this as an object lesson and not get caught up in the 'why so harsh' aspect. We too make covenants with our Heavenly Father, and while death is not always the result of our breaking them, the punishments can be just as great, only delayed. In the end, which is worse? Having the Lord take our life here or being cast out from living with God forever because we chose not to honor our covenants? Either one is not acceptable to me...

President Benson spoke on this as well many years ago. There are many things that can help us observe the Sabbath. Usually, after a long day at meetings, my wife and I go home teaching or have our home teacher over, and then I take a nap. Our meals are usually simple (since it is just my wife and I), consisting of something thrown in the crock pot or something that is very quick to whip up. I came from a family that had giant Sunday dinners, and I know that a lot of people look forward to that as a Sunday activity. When our kids were home, they were usually out on Mondays, usually to piano or school activities, so we always had FHE on Sunday evening after my nap (I've been doing it for a LONG time). Or we'd have it over Sunday dinner as we ate, to talk about Gospel principles. I haven't watched pro football for years. It is on Sunday, and I just don't feel right about it. Same goes for any sporting events. Usually my wife and I watch BYUTV on Sunday evenings, although we have been known to watch WKRP in Cincinnati on WGN on Sundays from time to time. I agree with Prodigal on this. The brethren have been pretty specific on what is and isn't okay for true Sabbath day worship, although they cannot tell us in every instance what is and isn't okay (same as Jacob or King Benjamin stated, when telling us that there are myriad ways of sinning). Let the spirit guide. Not our own convenience or justifications...