Average Joe
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Posts posted by Average Joe
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A couple random thoughts because, well, that's just the way my mind works...
First, wearing makeup is no more a sign of membership in the true church than wearing no makeup is a sign of rebellion.
Second, to paraphrase Jacob 2:7-9
And also it grieveth me that I must use so much dullness of speech concerning your councils, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God; And it supposeth me that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, yea, the word which healeth the wounded soul. Wherefore, it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained, because of the strict commandment which I have received from the leadership of God's church, to admonish you concerning your councils.
Third, many is the meeting for which the main purpose (to me) seemed at the time to be enduring to the end.
That said, I learned long ago I'm in church for me and nobody else - and not everything is geared to me. If I want sacred the temple is first, home second, church third. I shouldn't be in any of them except to be near the Lord - I hope your home is like that. Tired? Yeah, been there too. Fast, pray and put myself to work in the service of God - stepping up my home teaching with the pleasing word of God, working with the missionaries, privately sharing my testimony of Christ with others - all while being obedient, and being where I was supposed to be - no matter how dull the meeting was :)
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A thought that comes to mind is that the church of Paul's day is much like the church of today - made up of more converts than those born in the covenant. What he says here he wrote elsewhere as:
"Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
What is "evil" here? Any stumbling block you place by your actions [you who know better] before those who are weak in the faith/knowledge of the gospel. So I don't see this as political correctness as much as live what you preach.
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This is relatively insignificant, but still a question that I had about my scripture reading today. When Lehi and his family left Jerusalem, Lehi named a river after Laman. I've read that many times but never really thought about it. Why did Lehi name the river? Didn't it already have a name? And they were only passing through so what would it matter anyway. Perhaps he did it for some symbolic reason, or a teaching moment?
It was definitely a teaching moment.
It was also symbolic. In 1 Ne. 2: 8-10 we read:
And it came to pass that he called the name of the river, Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof. And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness! And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!
Now if the names have meaning, what does this say? If Laman is "shining, glimmering" and Lemuel is "devoted to God" we read:
And it came to pass that he called the name of the river, Shining, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof. And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Shining, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness! And he also spake unto devoted to God: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!
A Shining [pure] river [course of life] continually running into [approaching] the fountain [source] of all righteousness [God].
The devoted to God [disciples] firm and steadfast [like a valley = their course is carved in stone], and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!
These are a couple of my thoughts on your question. And also, this narrative is part of a larger narrative written upon an underlying spiritual pattern. Hope this helps :)
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There is another reason - once something was engraved on the plates or even just started - it was not worth the effort to erase it. Even if just one name was engraved - you would have to include the others to make sense - trying to say woops - did not need to include that name; just would not be worth the effort so what had been started had to be finished. Kind of like writing in ink in our society - rather than scribble over a mistake you might as well just finish writing it. And such mistakes would be very easy to make if one was coping another record.
I am inclined to think that this is evidence that Joseph did not make it up.
This isn't written in error. There is evidence to suggest that BoM prophets recorded their experiences and only later in life had them engraved on the plates. The things they engraved and Mormon abridged were not done in error.
As for my assertion that the names were not included by mistake, there are numbers and phrases included in the narrative to form a pattern. All things are first spiritual, and underlying this seemingly historical narrative is a spiritual pattern. Now I said the names in Alma 2:23 "Now those whom he had sent out to watch the camp of the Amlicites were called Zeram, and Amnor, and Manti, and Limher[.]" represented 4. So what comes before the number four? In Alma 2:20 we read:
And it came to pass that when Alma could pursue the Amlicites no longer he caused that his people should pitch their tents in the valley of Gideon, the valley being called after that Gideon who was slain by the hand of Nehor with the sword; and in this valley the Nephites did pitch their tents for the night.
So we have the valley 3 times. You have to admit that it would have been much simpler to write: "And it came to pass that when Alma could pursue the Amlicites no longer he caused that his people should pitch their tents in the valley of Gideon." if all Alma intended to convey was where they camped, however he is conveying more than this.
Again, names as numeric place holders and certain phrases are used here to convey a deeper spiritual pattern on which historic narrative is written.
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The thread isn't for trivia questions or doctrinal issues, but rather just questions of little importance that make you go, "Hmmmm?"
As to my question, some of your answers were interesting. Thanks.Here's another one.We know that because of the "difficulty of engraving [their] words upon plates" (Jacob 4:1), the Nephites wrote only what they determined to be important. In light of this, I've always wondered why Mormon included the names of four men (Zeram, Amnor, Manti, and Limher) who went out to watch the camp of the Amlicites. (Alma 2:22). There doesn't appear to be any reason why their names would be important; the story doesn't require it, and they are never mentioned in the narrative again. Mormon could have saved himself the trouble of engraving an entire paragraph and nothing important (apparently) would have been lost.Any thoughts?Sometimes its the number of names which has meaning and not the names themselves as in Mosiah 18:30 -
And now it came to pass that all this was done in Mormon, yea, by the waters of Mormon, in the forest that was near the waters of Mormon; yea, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon..."
Names or rather the repetition of names is a device that is sometimes employed in the Book of Mormon as a place holder of numeric value for a deeper truth that underlies the narrative which is not revealed by casual or literal reading, like your "why the names of four men (Zeram, Amnor, Manti, and Limher)" reading. It may well have to do with something related to the number "4" :)
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so what are they bringing to eat? :)
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Have people send me money or gift cards on Christmas and my birthday so I don't have to earn it to spend it!
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reading the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, the records of the Nephites, of the lost tribes, of the "other lost sheep we know not of", and other scripture which has been withheld...apparently, we still have a lot to learn that can't be learned in a telestial world. :)
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The great healer is our Savior. And three of his greatest tools are time, distance, and more importantly, losing yourself in helping others.
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Off topic, but which church is the great and abominable church?
Elder McConkie gave the Catholic church that "credit" until he was asked to "revise" his book Mormon Doctrine.
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How did I survive NOT attending BYU,,,or living in Utah, and still turn out to be an active, believing Mormon?
- Jane_Doe and Blackmarch
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Agreed... However I wish people would also respect my right to use moral agency as much as they demand I respect theirs. When I decide not to jump on whatever the latest hobby horse is that we are suppose to be all outraged about... that I am not therefore an evil sinner or a clueless dingbat who is permissively letting the evils of the world slip past me.
umm...I think that happens AFTER the second coming
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Hmmmmmmmm here is a thought - if there is a kingdom greater than Celestial - the first step that must be taken to get there would be the consideration that such a thing is possible. If you cannot even imagine it - you cannot achieve it. Poor me, I am still trying to imagine what the Celestial Kingdom is.
Well, we haven't exactly achieved Zion ether.
We have been told what it would take to achieve becoming like our Heavenly Father, and yet, exactly how much have we been told about the Celestial Kingdom in scripture? About as much as we know about the city of Enoch. In reality - nothing.
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And she could have made a more impressive 'stand' by resigning... Resigning doesn't carry stigmata of being to worried about the things of the world (aka having a job).. Or in other words we could just a easily say her 'worldly' concerns show that she was trying to serve two masters... And that never ends well. It make the stand she did take less effective
The effectiveness of her stand in your eyes and mine isn't really what matters here, now is it? She did what she felt was right/best in this situation - it wasn't your call or mine.
I'm behind her use of her moral agency 100%
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I quit going because they wouldn't sell coffee and donuts in the foyer!
Just kidding, there's a Dunkin' Donuts on the way to church
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I missed that she was elected... Of course the other side of that question then is way doesn't she quit/resign etc?
It seems more ethical to me that you quit a job that you have ethical concerns about doing rather then trying have it both ways by staying in the job but refusing to do the job
I'm 100% behind her on this. You don't make a statement by going quietly into the night. If she's willing to be jailed for her beliefs she is one of the very, very few in the country that is. Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller was jailed for his beliefs, King was jailed for his beliefs, and so was Gandhi.
In Helaman 10:4 it states:
Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.
We are where we're at in this country because no one is willing to be accused of being "politically incorrect." So very, very few are willing to take a stand...everyone just says, "There's nothing I can do."
Love her or hate her, she has feared God and not man according to her understanding, and she has made a stand.
- askandanswer and NightSG
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Average Joe....I do look away, but, too bad the increase in need to do so. No need speaking to the Bishop as his daughters all wear the aforementioned attire. Heck, the SP's wife must spend an hour trying to paint on her jeans....
As time winds down the division between those who have oil in their lamp and those who don't will only become greater.
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Anyone else notice this or is it exclusive to my Ward?
While on the High Council in my stake I saw this situation in all the wards to one degree or another, among YW and mothers and a few women old enough to be grandmothers, women who I had seen in the temple and others I had never seen there (whether they had a recommend or not.) I've also seen those that wear blouses which when they lean over to a child or to talk to someone who is seated, display all the "gifts" the good Lord gave them.
Look away. Speak to the bishop if you feel its warranted, he is the shepherd of that fold. Let your wive and daughters know what you find appropriate, you are the shepherd of your fold.
Knowing that all are not on the same level spiritually helps give perspective. Love the sinner not the "sin". While this might sometimes appear like an epidemic, to me it's just the flip side of the coin of priesthood and pornography. We live in a hyper-sexualized world.
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The idea (doctrine?) that there was no death before the Fall of Adam has caused a real issue on reconciling science with religion, when we look at the fossil record.
Several years ago, I suggested the idea that death was operative during the five days of creation on another LDS forum, and was renounced as a heretic, an apostate.
Few have noticed a recent comment by Elder Holland in the last General Conference. He was speaking of the Creation and Adam and Eve. He said something very interesting
This is the first time in my memory that the door was opened to the idea that there was death prior Adam, and that the Fall only affected HUMAN death.
Have you read, "Earth in the Beginning - Revised and Enlarged Edition" by Eric N. Skousen?
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see comment below -
What is power?
in General Discussion
Posted
Faith ~ "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God [.]" (Hebrews 11:3)
coupled with
Glory ~ "The glory of God is intelligence, or in other words, light and truth." (D&C 93:35)
That's my guess