Average Joe

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  1. Like
    Average Joe reacted to bytebear in The Words of Baptism   
    Well, I think the answer is simple.  The preamble was an important pondering on the meaning, the significance, of baptism, but it wasn't the template for the ordinance.  The template for the ordinance is given elsewhere in the Book of Mormon, and explicitly to the Restored Church in the Doctrine and Covenants.
  2. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from aeglyn in It’s Quiet Now   
    It’s quiet now

     

    Here

     

    Where waters lap among the reeds

     

    I can hear myself think

     

    And a hundred impossible flights of fancy are possible

     

    Here at the laver

     

    Before the temple of God

     

    - the fire pops –

     

    And smoke stirred by a vagrant breeze

     

    Ascends like incense

     

    Bearing my thoughts like pristine prayers

     

    Heavenward to Nature’s God

     

    Alone at twilight

     

    Til nearby song birds sing

     

    And I look across nature into the eternity

     

    Nature's changing face reveals

     

    And I wait ‘tween the promise and the dream

     

     



  3. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from pam in It’s Quiet Now   
    It’s quiet now

     

    Here

     

    Where waters lap among the reeds

     

    I can hear myself think

     

    And a hundred impossible flights of fancy are possible

     

    Here at the laver

     

    Before the temple of God

     

    - the fire pops –

     

    And smoke stirred by a vagrant breeze

     

    Ascends like incense

     

    Bearing my thoughts like pristine prayers

     

    Heavenward to Nature’s God

     

    Alone at twilight

     

    Til nearby song birds sing

     

    And I look across nature into the eternity

     

    Nature's changing face reveals

     

    And I wait ‘tween the promise and the dream

     

     



  4. Like
    Average Joe reacted to Jane_Doe in splitting units   
    Are you asking for ideas on how to split your ward?  Well the answer would be you standard missionary/reactivation/keep activation answers...
  5. Like
    Average Joe reacted to bytebear in The Words of Baptism   
    I think the above elaborate quote is an introduction, a precursor to the actual ordinance.  Similar to a bishop perhaps expounding on the event.  Or perhaps like a temple wedding when the officiator may give advice or expound on the significance of eternal families, but then the actual ordinance is very simple.  So, in short, it's a preamble to the ordniance.
  6. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from Vort in "On a signal from the conductor, the choir and congregation will join in singing..."   
    secret code for those awaiting "the call out"  
  7. Like
    Average Joe reacted to Traveler in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    It is kind of like marriage.  You can study it, be told about it and you can even date some; all of which will assist in progressing - but you will not have knowledge of marriage - not really until you experience the full spectrum of it (including the results).
  8. Like
    Average Joe reacted to Sojourn in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    I love the remarks that I am reading here and I would like to contribute even in a small way if possible. It seems to me that scripturally we seem to be in an area that is at best sketchy; that is we don’t know a lot of details about the pre-mortal spirit life and the pre-spirit life as intelligences that we can point to in scripture. Much of what we hear comes from non-canonical sources and some would even question if there was an evolution from intelligence to spirit; I like to think there was.  There is a very good read by B.H. Roberts called “The Immortality of Man” written in the Improvement Era of 1907. I will give you the link at the end. If you look at the notes at the bottom of Roberts' paper you will see that not all of the general authorities at the time agreed with Roberts, and then some changed their minds to the positive later.
    After reading Robert’s paper I decided to write down what I thought might be some attributes of the so-called intelligence state for my own personal study.  I put down 15 items not intended to be all inclusive but just as a basis to study. A couple of the 15 were that an intelligence was capable of judging, was capable of making choices, had moral agency.  I found that D&C 93 had a lot to say about these things and I tend to agree that if you had choice, you could obey or disobey then you could sin and that the infinite Atonement could reach back (See Rev 12:7-11) and take care of these things.
     
    Not to long ago I read somewhere (this is lame) that God observed Christ in the intelligent state for eons of time before he was chosen to be the Christ/Messiah. I so wish I had the reference to that paraphrase now, because to use that without a reference is lame.  I am sorry. If anyone else has seen that I would love to know where it came from because I tend to believe it.
     
    B.H. Roberts“The Immortality of Man”
    (enjoy)
    http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/Immortality-of-Man.html
  9. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from Blackmarch in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    lol...on this I don't know that there's a "right" answer unless somebody has had a vision or revelation their not sharing with the rest of us
  10. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from Anddenex in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" John 9:2 
     
    Obviously the disciples felt that there was pre-mortal sin or they wouldn't have asked the question that way. In the Pearl of Great Price we read:
     
    "For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world." Moses 5: 24
     
    So we can see that the atonement must apply to both mortality and pre-mortality.
     
    Now D&C 88:37-38 states: "And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions."
     
    So apparently your "Laws induce opposition" are in effect and Joseph Smith taught  “Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it had a beginning?  The intelligence of spirits had not beginning, neither will it have an end. . . . Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle.”  (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.353-354).
     
    I lean towards intelligences having good or evil dispositions prior to being born as spirit children of our Heavenly Father.
  11. Like
    Average Joe reacted to askandanswer in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    I think the answer to this might depend on your definition of evil. If evil is defined as choosing to act against God's will then evil emerged when (a) we first became aware of God's will and (b) when we developed the capacity to choose and act. I'm guessing that both our awareness of God's will and our capacity to choose and act occurred gradually, over a period of time. If the existence of evil is dependent on the existence of sin, and sin is defined as acting contrary to law that we are subject to, then evil would have come into existence no sooner than the existence of law. I suspect that law, in some form or another, has always been around. 
  12. Like
    Average Joe reacted to Blackmarch in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    No clue.
  13. Like
    Average Joe reacted to james12 in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    I would say evil has always existed. Evil is simply based on the law of cause and effect. That which we call evil is what in the eternal scheme brings disorder and chaos. However, sin first conceived in us at birth, "And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good" (Moses 6:55). 
     
    The reason sin conceives in us at birth is because it requires illusion. Sin implies we are at odds within ourselves. In other words, at the core we know what is right and yet we do not what is right. Paul says it this way:
    We do not what is right because we are weak, not because we are bad. See, the fall did not make us weak it simply exposed our weakness by placing us in an environment where we had to struggle (see TPJS p 354). 
     
    Such is not the case once we are resurrected. In that state we will do exactly what we intend to do. The internal war is at an end and the confusion and darkness which covered us on the earth will be gone. However, to the extent that we did not overcome the enemy of our soul, we will continue to be lacking. We will not have the power, light and understanding others have obtained and to that extent "evil" will remain with us.
  14. Like
    Average Joe reacted to Anddenex in When did evil first conceive in us?   
    As to my knowledge and understanding of the concept of "evil" a few passages of scripture enter into my heart and mind.  The first is 2 Nephi 2: 13, which specifies the importance of laws.  Laws induce opposition, contrast between light and dark, truth and error, good and evil, joy and sorrow. 
     
    The second scripture is a few verses later, 2 Nephi 2: 16, clarifying the ability for the sons and daughter of God to act for themselves, or to be acted upon.  In order to act for ourselves we are enticed to keep the law or break it.  When then did evil conceive in us?  The moment we were enticed by evil and chose to act in accordance with evil's temptations.  
     
    To some degree, I would assume, evil intentions were manifest as intelligences before our mortal probation.  Satan's rebellion is an obvious example that enticed the sons and daughters of God between truth and error, right and wrong, good and evil.
  15. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from theSQUIDSTER in He who is natures God   
    There is that which seeks to draw us out

     

    Out of our comfort zones

     

    And then which seeks to draw us in

     

    Shadow cast

     

    And sunlight dappled

     

    The forest steeped in green

     

     

    I love the gold-green of sun touched leaves

     

    Which lie darker in the shadows below

     

    And the soft rustle of leaves upon the breeze

     

    Aflutter on swaying boughs

     

    Mingled with the chirp and whistles of birds

     

    Which call from tree to tree

     

    It is here that I hear my God speak

     

     

    He who is natures God

     

     


  16. Like
    Average Joe reacted to Roseslipper in Just sayin' hello   
    Hello Joe, nice to meet you, sort of. Welcome to the forum... from an average Rose in south Florida
  17. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from askandanswer in known unknowns about the atonement   
    The Infinite Atonement by Tad R. Callister of the Seventy is an insightful look at various aspects of the atonement if your looking for something to supplement your studies.
  18. Like
    Average Joe got a reaction from iamkari in Just sayin' hello   
    Since this is the to do thing (and I don't want to come out in open rebellion just yet  ), hi, I'm the newbie. I'm nothing to write home about, just your average Joe.  I'm LDS, redneck, blue collar, and living in the south...but enough about me, who the heck are you?