Average Joe

Hi Rich
 
I'm a southern blue collar redneck so I just basically call it as I see it. So here goes.
 
The longer you stay away the less likely you'll be to return to church. If your going to church mainly for social reasons you've missed the real point of going - to partake of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
 
Now personally, its highly suspect as to whether I'm "capable" (definitely not except for maybe Shakespeare's "Henry V). My thing is art. More specifically,  American contemporary classical art. Now if I drop names like Jacob Collins, David Gray, or David Larned, (to name a few) I'm going to get a blank stare. I f I talk about alla prima or grisaille painting or ateliers it'll be more blank stares. I'm there for the gospel and I confine my conversations about art to local artists.
 
Just my take on things. Good luck.
John

Hi Rich
 
I'm a southern blue collar redneck so I just basically call it as I see it. So here goes.
 
The longer you stay away the less likely you'll be to return to church. If your going to church mainly for social reasons you've missed the real point of going - to partake of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
 
Now personally, its highly suspect as to whether I'm "capable" (definitely not except for maybe Shakespeare's "Henry V). My thing is art. More specifically,  American contemporary classical art. Now if I drop names like Jacob Collins, David Gray, or David Larned, (to name a few) I'm going to get a blank stare. I f I talk about alla prima or grisaille painting or ateliers it'll be more blank stares. I'm there for the gospel and I confine my conversations about art to local artists.
 
Just my take on things. Good luck.
John

Exactly. Personally, I think its a case of politics interfering with courts...but I don't want to go off on my opinions about the Executive/Judicial and Legislative branches of the gov't and hijack the thread.  

Yeah, that just seemed like a no brainer to me too...until they didn't change the venue

so will the world at the second coming...that's old news.

First, they should have had a change of venue for the trial. If this case didn't call for it no case does...but there will be years of appeals anyway.
 
Second, the government is off the hook for allowing this to happen.
 
Third, if he is found guilty and given the death penalty after all appeals I have no problem with his being executed. 

I love some other translations of Malachi 4:2-3. For instance this one which restores such beautiful imagery of the calves leaping from the stall. It is this image I carry with me regarding that great day.

Its true that if women or youth are going to be holding a meeting at the meetinghouse there are supposed to be at least 2 priesthood holders present to act as "security"

Mark 13: 32
 
Matt 24:36
D&C 49:7
 
The Joseph Smith Matthew renders the verse as thus
A strictly literal rendering of these verses is that only the Father knows. There is room to allow for Christ to know, if in the context he is using the title of the father while addressing us. (which he appears to do throughout much of the old testament.

This is cool. I like hearing about interesting things like this.

In the “Looking for deeper meaning in scripture” post started by Sojourn in General Discussion Forum I was asked, “could you direct me to the 3 degrees of glory pattern in the Book of Mormon?”I didn’t reply directly, instead encouraging Sojourn to study it out in their mind and pray. I am posting the answer under the Scripture Studies Forum to show:
 
1) I’m being honest and not just making stuff up.
 
 
2) As an evidence of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, it wasn't just made up either.
 
3) To help others with their scripture study. This may not seem like much of a pattern to some and that’s OK, that’s their business. However, to any that find this of interest I hope this serves as a witness to you that if the spirit would reveal this to me through prayerful pondering and study of the scriptures he will do the same for you for God is no respecter of persons.  
 
***
In the Celestial Kingdom those who have proven worthy have the presence of the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost and angels. There is a temple in Heaven. There is a Book of Life (which I will liken here to the scriptures). Those who enter into heaven will have lived after the Manner of Happiness and been obedient to the gospel’s plan of salvation and the ordinances such as baptism of water and baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. They will also be endowed.
 
 
Celestial or 1 Nephi & 2 Nephi
 
The Father                1 Ne 1:8, 2 Ne. 31:15
The Son                    1 Ne. 11:11, 2 Ne. 11:2-3
The Holy Spirit          1 Ne. 2:16-17
Angels                       1 Ne. 3:29
Temple                      2 Ne. 5:16
Scriptures                  1 Ne. 1:16-17, 1 Ne. 5:10
Lived after the Manner of Happiness 2 Ne. 5:27
Baptism of water        2 Ne. 31:5
Baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost    2 Ne. 31:14
Endowment                2 Ne. 32:4
 
***
 
Those of the Terrestrial Kingdom  will have the presence of the Son and the Holy Ghost but not the Father. To enter into the Temple you must have a Recommend which gives evidence you are living at least a terrestrial (as opposed to a Telestrial) life style, however many who are not members of the church (having neither baptism or gift of the Holy Ghost) will also be worthy of Terrestrial life.
 
Terrestrial or Jacob
 
Saw The Son           [2 Ne. 11:2-3]
The Holy Spirit         Jacob 7:8
Temple                     Jacob 1:17
Scriptures                 Jacob 1:1-4
Missionary Work       Jacob 7:24
Anti-Christ                 Jacob 7:1-20
Pride                         Jacob 1:16
 
***
 
Those of the Telestial Kingdom will only enjoy the presence of the Holy Ghost.
 
Telestial or Enos
 
The Holy Spirit            Enos v. 5
Scriptures                   Enos v. 16
Missionary Work         Enos v. 14
Pride                           Enos v. 22
***
This is (one of) the pattern(s) I have found in the Book of Mormon. I hope it helps any who may also be searching their scriptures. 
 
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" Matthew 7:7.

Here.

There are many things presented in the BoM but not by name. Have you ever read about baptism/salvation for the dead in the BoM? No,right? Read 1 Ne. 21:8-9 and then read footnote A for verse 9. What does it say? 
 
Celestial, terrestrial, and telestial are a pattern the those Books are written in (among other patterns found there). Each book will mention things pertaining to that Kingdom but not the one above it - unless it would also be found in the kingdom. Obviously, that seems less than helpful in that it doesn't explain how the patterns are presented in those books. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I pointed out where and followed the Lord's admonition to Oliver Cowdery:
 
D&C 9:7-9  Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; 
 
I'll work with you but if you truly want to learn it always takes prayer and study. And I'd say your correct about the Nephites living a "millennial" lifestyle "after the manner of happiness" following the Savior's appearance.  

For one - Celestial: 1 & 2 Nephi, Terrestial: Jacob, Telestial: Enos

Worth a listen if you have time.

Heber C. Kimball remembered he and Brigham Young visiting a group Mormons who spoke in tongues. Brigham and Heber were baptized shortly thereafter, and it was Brigham Young who introduced Joseph Smith to speaking in tongues. With the prophet's endorsement (including his singing in tongues), the practice spread...Speaking in tongues became an integral part of 19th century Mormon spirituality...The frequency of the gift slowed and eventually those who commonly spoke in tongues died off. Sometimes, manifestations of the gift in the 20th century were regarded with suspicion. Eventually church materials would define the gift of tongues primarily as the ability for missionaries or others to learn languages to preach the gospel. (read more here).
 
Prayer is often a method used in the Book of Mormon to bring about being filled with the spirit/sanctified: 
 
Lehi, as he went forth prayed unto the Lord, yea, even with all his heart, in behalf of his people… And it came to pass that…he was filled with the Spirit of the Lord. (1 Nephi 1:5 & 12).
 
And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul...And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed... And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away. (Enos vs 4-6)
 
Nevertheless they did fast and pray oft, and did wax stronger and stronger in their humility, and firmer and firmer in the faith of Christ, unto the filling their souls with joy and consolation, yea, even to the purifying and the sanctification of their hearts, which sanctification cometh because of their yielding their hearts unto God. (Helaman 3:35)

Wow, this is great.  You are very knowledgeable about scripture.

nice

First Book of Nephi, Chapter 1
 
1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.
 
            Revelation begins with those things we are taught as a child by out parents.
 
 2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.
 
I might paraphrase this as follows: “the learning of the gospel and the reading, ‘riting, and ‘rithmetic of the world.”
 
 3 And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.
 
 4 For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.
 
 5 Wherefore it came to pass that my father, Lehi, as he went forth prayed unto the Lord, yea, even with all his heart, in behalf of his people.
 
Why do we need to pray with all our heart? So our whole heart may be filled with the spirit of the lord. (see vs. 12 &15) This in turn allows us to see things from the lord’s perspective.
 
 6 And it came to pass as he prayed unto the Lord, there came a pillar of fire and dwelt upon a rock before him; and he saw and heard much; and because of the things which he saw and heard he did quake and tremble exceedingly.
 
First spiritual manifestation is the ministering of angels, as it says in Palms 104:4, “Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire.” The Lord has revealed that “there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:5). The Aaronic Priesthood holds “the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel” (Doctrine and Covenants 84:26) but worthy women and children may have angels minister unto themselves. 
 
 7 And it came to pass that he returned to his own house at Jerusalem; and he cast himself upon his bed, being overcome with the Spirit and the things which he had seen.
 
 8 And being thus overcome with the Spirit, he was carried away in a vision, even that he saw the heavens open, and he thought he saw God sitting upon his throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels in the attitude of singing and praising their God.
 
Angels are precursors to introduction to Heavenly Father, where visions of eternity are manifest.
 
 9 And it came to pass that he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day.
 
 10 And he also saw twelve others following him, and their brightness did exceed that of the stars in the firmament.
 
 11 And they came down and went forth upon the face of the earth; and the first came and stood before my father, and gave unto him a book, and bade him that he should read.
 
Joseph Smith taught: “After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter.” To receive the other Comforter is to have Christ appear to him and to see the visions of eternity. (Teachings, pp. 149–151.)
 
 12 And it came to pass that as he read, he was filled with the Spirit of the Lord.
 
 13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.
 
 14 And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord; such as: Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!
 
 15 And after this manner was the language of my father in the praising of his God; for his soul did rejoice, and his whole heart was filled, because of the things which he had seen, yea, which the Lord had shown unto him.
 
 16 And now I, Nephi, do not make a full account of the things which my father hath written, for he hath written many things which he saw in visions and in dreams; and he also hath written many things which he prophesied and spake unto his children, of which I shall not make a full account.
 
Our personal revelation should be shared with our families in family histories and testimonies unless constrained by the spirit so that like Nephi they might be taught somewhat in all the learning of their father
 
 17 But I shall make an account of my proceedings in my days. Behold, I make an abridgment of the record of my father, upon plates which I have made with mine own hands; wherefore, after I have abridged the record of my father then will I make an account of mine own life.
 
 18 Therefore, I would that ye should know, that after the Lord had shown so many marvelous things unto my father, Lehi, yea, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, behold he went forth among the people, and began to prophesy and to declare unto them concerning the things which he had both seen and heard.
 
Personal revelation is often a direction to go and do, go then and do so. Don’t fall under the admonition, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Indeed, those of the Terresterial Kingdom include: "...they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God. (D&C 76:79).
 
 19 And it came to pass that the Jews did mock him because of the things which he testified of them; for he truly testified of their wickedness and their abominations; and he testified that the things which he saw and heard, and also the things which he read in the book, manifested plainly of the coming of a Messiah, and also the redemption of the world.
 
 20 And when the Jews heard these things they were angry with him; yea, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out, and stoned, and slain; and they also sought his life, that they might take it away. But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you that the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of deliverance.

Thanks for stepping in and helping this poor, lost, l'il redneck child out :)

This is in a sense true. However, when the split was proposed the ward was composed of mostly long time members [the old guard so to speak] and I felt that perhaps things were too inclusive since many of these families were inter-related (bros and sis, cousins. etc...) but now that many of those have died or moved being replaced by fresh move-ins the situation has shown no signs of change.
 
Though many in the ward are really nice, friendly people...they continue to seem spiritually dead in the pews. Why would the living want to join the dead?  I know any change I seek has to begin with me changing myself but I guess I'm looking at how to get a spiritual revival going among the members...

There ya go.

Did you breathe ?? Lol!!!

The Lord accepted the words of Alma inasmuch as the Spirit of the Lord was upon him and inspired him to say what he said.  We, of course, follow the revelation given to us in the D&C.