SGoodman

Sarah, I had the exact same problem but with the Word of Wisdom instead of with the garments. I'll explain.
There is nothing evil or sinful about coffee. And yet the Word of Wisdom prohibits me from having any and that annoyed me to no end. I like my coffee. I'm a coffee connesuir. But I promised, by getting baptized, that I would abide by that particular commandment.
In the beginning it was a source of great discomfort for me. It put me in a bad mood. It even robbed me of having the Spirit with me at times. Then I realized that coffee was doing nothing at all. I was putting me in a bad mood, robbing myself of the Spirit. I tried a bit harder.
And, little by little, abstaining from coffee became a sacrifice that I was willing to do, happy to do to enjoy the amazing blessings that the gospel has brought into my life. I didn't understand the relationship between coffee and God but I was on board with the process. Now when I smelled a fine Colombian roast blend it made me think of the gospel and of the joy it brings rather than think of what I was missing and what I had given up.
And that's when I realized the relationship between coffee and God, and between garments and God. It's a daily, constant reminder that I'll give anything to hear His voice, to feel his presence. He asks me, by covenant, to make uncomfortable changes in what I eat, what I wear, how I spend my money, how I spend my time. And with every sacrifice I make He pours out His Spirit on me.
For full disclosure, coffee was never my thing, but it made a better and more relatable example than mine would have.

I have to apologize. When I read your post it made me chuckle. Then I started to feel guilty and remembered that, had I read this post ten years ago when my child was 14 and announced that she was no longer a Mormon and didn't believe in anything, I would have been crying before I finished your post.
Yea, we went through the same thing. And we took it waaay too seriously. And we learned that everyone has to eventually learn for themselves that the gospel is true, that the Lord lives, that Jesus is the Christ. And the process is rarely linear and always messy.
Some details that we learned that you might find useful.
1. In spite of raising our children in a gospel centered home, we were shocked (over and over again) to learn just how little she actually knew about the gospel. She "knew" lots and lots of tidbits and details she had gleaned from anti-Mormons but she didn't actually know the gospel.
2. We got more mileage out of the standards that she grew up with than out of the doctrines we taught her. The world that she was attracted to followed none of the standards that the Church teaches (modesty, chastity, Word of Wisdom, etc.) and her discomfort with those things did more to prompt her return than did any specific doctrine (worldly doctrine or gospel doctrine).
3. Time. Give it time. Lots of time. It's been 10 years and this past summer she decided all by herself that she wanted her life to be focused on the gospel that she barely knew. She reached out to the missionaries to come school her on the basics. She started paying tithing and fasting and reading and praying.
4. Nothing mattered more than for her to know that her parents love her. Anguish over her on your own time. When she's around it needs to be all smiles and hugs. She knows good and well that you pray for her every night with tears steaming. She doesn't need to have that rubbed in her face.
And for the parent, not you, who has actually lost a child to world and is beyond hoping to see them return there is some little solace in remembering that Ezra Taft Benson has a son who is a staunch anti-Mormon. So did Joseph Smith. And so does our Heavenly Father.

I have to apologize. When I read your post it made me chuckle. Then I started to feel guilty and remembered that, had I read this post ten years ago when my child was 14 and announced that she was no longer a Mormon and didn't believe in anything, I would have been crying before I finished your post.
Yea, we went through the same thing. And we took it waaay too seriously. And we learned that everyone has to eventually learn for themselves that the gospel is true, that the Lord lives, that Jesus is the Christ. And the process is rarely linear and always messy.
Some details that we learned that you might find useful.
1. In spite of raising our children in a gospel centered home, we were shocked (over and over again) to learn just how little she actually knew about the gospel. She "knew" lots and lots of tidbits and details she had gleaned from anti-Mormons but she didn't actually know the gospel.
2. We got more mileage out of the standards that she grew up with than out of the doctrines we taught her. The world that she was attracted to followed none of the standards that the Church teaches (modesty, chastity, Word of Wisdom, etc.) and her discomfort with those things did more to prompt her return than did any specific doctrine (worldly doctrine or gospel doctrine).
3. Time. Give it time. Lots of time. It's been 10 years and this past summer she decided all by herself that she wanted her life to be focused on the gospel that she barely knew. She reached out to the missionaries to come school her on the basics. She started paying tithing and fasting and reading and praying.
4. Nothing mattered more than for her to know that her parents love her. Anguish over her on your own time. When she's around it needs to be all smiles and hugs. She knows good and well that you pray for her every night with tears steaming. She doesn't need to have that rubbed in her face.
And for the parent, not you, who has actually lost a child to world and is beyond hoping to see them return there is some little solace in remembering that Ezra Taft Benson has a son who is a staunch anti-Mormon. So did Joseph Smith. And so does our Heavenly Father.

Statistics are the most misunderstood and misused of facts.
Child of record baptisms and convert baptisms are increasing. They are simply increasing at a pace slightly below the increase in population. Over the last 6 years the Church dropped a whopping .08% as a percentage of the US population (that's just under 1/10 of 1 percent). And though Carborendum failed to mention it, that is limited to the US. The growth of the Church outside the US is even higher (though our numbers as a percent of population are much lower. It's a big world).

Statistics are the most misunderstood and misused of facts.
Child of record baptisms and convert baptisms are increasing. They are simply increasing at a pace slightly below the increase in population. Over the last 6 years the Church dropped a whopping .08% as a percentage of the US population (that's just under 1/10 of 1 percent). And though Carborendum failed to mention it, that is limited to the US. The growth of the Church outside the US is even higher (though our numbers as a percent of population are much lower. It's a big world).

We weren't a part of your Quorum meeting so we can't know the exact context of the remarks.
If we take the comments to mean, as you seem to have, that we only need to do the minimum (the basics) then you are correct. That's not the path to exaltation.
If we take the comments to mean that we need to focus on the fundamentals (the basics) then that is presicely the way to exaltation.

para-ambulance -
Vehicle for transporting gluten free, lo-cal, fake gingerbread people.
permbulance-
Vehicle for transporting gingerbread people to hair appointments.

Jeff Foxworthy gave us the "You might be a redneck" style of jokes. Here are some tailored for Mormons.
If your first car is a minvan, you just might be a Mormon.
If a three bedroom home counts as a starter home, you might be a Mormon.
If "The First Vision" isn't a reference to anything you did in the sixties, you might be a Mormon.
If a Stake isn't for holding down a tent and a Ward isn't a child in your custody, you might be a Mormon.
If you have more money invested in food in your basement than in clothes in your closet, you might be a Mormon.
If you're at a wedding and the bride isn't pregnant....but her mother is, you might be a Mormon.
And the last one is my favorite even though it isn't funny...
If you go to great lengths and expense to do a service you don't understand for people you don't know who may or may not want it anyway, you may be a Mormon.

I was told that most Mormon women stop having children after 34....
Because 35 is just too many.

I've been around for a couple of days now (thank you, Pam) and I think I'll stay so here's my intro.
I'm Jewish, a convert to the Church. Missionary to France and married a French girl I met there. Raised a house full of daughters, last one is still at home, the others are in college and out of college.
I'm pretty good at the intellectual parts but fairly dense when it comes to the Spirit (audible voices and angelic visitations work pretty well but "still small voice" just rarely gets through).
The rest we'll learn about each other as we go.

There is a button at the top corner of every post with a check mark icon inviting me to "like" a post. I found a particularly good post (thank you, Vort) and pressed the button. What exactly was supposed to happen?

I've been around for a couple of days now (thank you, Pam) and I think I'll stay so here's my intro.
I'm Jewish, a convert to the Church. Missionary to France and married a French girl I met there. Raised a house full of daughters, last one is still at home, the others are in college and out of college.
I'm pretty good at the intellectual parts but fairly dense when it comes to the Spirit (audible voices and angelic visitations work pretty well but "still small voice" just rarely gets through).
The rest we'll learn about each other as we go.

It's rare to be able to undo 20 years in just a short while. You've already been told that it takes time.
And during that time, fake it. Not in a bad way, but figuratively put on the mask of the person you're trying to be. Wear that mask until it is no longer a mask.
I wish I were more outgoing and helpful, so I put on the mask and pretend to be outgoing and helpful. And I keep that up until it becomes who I am, and it isn't a pretense anymore but a character trait.
There's a mask for Happy and another for Confident. There's even a mask for Spiritual and Faithful. I put that Sprirtual mask on and I pretend to be one of those Mormons who reads his scriptures and prays every day. And I pretend to be that guy by reading my scriptures and praying every day. And some day I'll forget that it's just pretend.
And for this or just about any other problem that spans years I would take an additional step. I would go to LDS Family Services and schedule an appointment with the Psychologist they have on staff. Nothing that has been ingrained over the course of decades is going to change without guidance and direction and he can give you both in ways that the Bishop can't.

I've been around for a couple of days now (thank you, Pam) and I think I'll stay so here's my intro.
I'm Jewish, a convert to the Church. Missionary to France and married a French girl I met there. Raised a house full of daughters, last one is still at home, the others are in college and out of college.
I'm pretty good at the intellectual parts but fairly dense when it comes to the Spirit (audible voices and angelic visitations work pretty well but "still small voice" just rarely gets through).
The rest we'll learn about each other as we go.

I've been around for a couple of days now (thank you, Pam) and I think I'll stay so here's my intro.
I'm Jewish, a convert to the Church. Missionary to France and married a French girl I met there. Raised a house full of daughters, last one is still at home, the others are in college and out of college.
I'm pretty good at the intellectual parts but fairly dense when it comes to the Spirit (audible voices and angelic visitations work pretty well but "still small voice" just rarely gets through).
The rest we'll learn about each other as we go.

Sounds like the op is on the mobile version? (on the mobile site the like check mark is at the top right of each post, instead of the bottom right like on the desktop version) You can't see likes listed at the bottom like you can with the full version.
 
 
No gloating on the phone over the number of likes you have unfortunately, the only reason I come here to is to validate myself by measure of my likes.... Btw, Every time you like my posts you save a puppy from exploding, so please, save a puppy and like my post.


 

Perhaps.  Do RC bishops hailing from nations whose passports aren't as universally accepted, serve outside of their home countries at the same rate as bishops from countries with more "powerful" passports?  Would/could the LDS Church expect to get the same sort of deference for its clerics, that the Catholics get for their clerics?
 
And, yeah; I certainly wouldn't put limits on God's ability to do . . . anything.  On the other hand, it's kind of an orthodox LDS view that there were practical reasons that the Restoration occurred in 19th century America rather than--say--16th century Spain or 21st century Gaza.  Without ruling out the possibility of the miraculous, I simply don't think God is above working through ordinary means using the tools He has available to Him.  The conjunction between Apostle Paul's status as a Roman citizen and the sheer geographical breadth of his ministry, was no coincidence.  And, at the risk of sounding jingoistic--for the past half-century, one of the tools that has been available to Him is that His Church is strongly established in a nation that, for whatever reason, has been described in secular political circles as a military, political and cultural "superpower".

If the objective her is to get the most rewarding scouting experience for your son then the answer is simple enough. Find the best troop available. But I would hope your objectives are greater than that.
You might want to rethink teaching your son, by example, that every organization he affiliates with exists to serve his needs and he has little or no responsibility in the reverse.
You might want to rethink teaching your son that the guidelines and policies provided by the Church can be casually discarded without consequence, seen and unseen.
You might want to rethink passing up on the opportunity to see your son do something hard, overcome stiff opposition, and make a success in difficult circumstances. You would probably have to participate in this process far more than would be necessary in a troop that was more welcoming, and that's not a bad thing. Imagine what overcoming that sort of opposition would do for the growth and maturity of your son and what the process would do for your relationship with him.
If you think your son, with your love and support, would be strong enough to survive and grow from the experience you stay with the troop in your Ward. If you think your son isn't strong enough to rise to the challenge then you need to find an outside troop.

Sarah, I had the exact same problem but with the Word of Wisdom instead of with the garments. I'll explain.
There is nothing evil or sinful about coffee. And yet the Word of Wisdom prohibits me from having any and that annoyed me to no end. I like my coffee. I'm a coffee connesuir. But I promised, by getting baptized, that I would abide by that particular commandment.
In the beginning it was a source of great discomfort for me. It put me in a bad mood. It even robbed me of having the Spirit with me at times. Then I realized that coffee was doing nothing at all. I was putting me in a bad mood, robbing myself of the Spirit. I tried a bit harder.
And, little by little, abstaining from coffee became a sacrifice that I was willing to do, happy to do to enjoy the amazing blessings that the gospel has brought into my life. I didn't understand the relationship between coffee and God but I was on board with the process. Now when I smelled a fine Colombian roast blend it made me think of the gospel and of the joy it brings rather than think of what I was missing and what I had given up.
And that's when I realized the relationship between coffee and God, and between garments and God. It's a daily, constant reminder that I'll give anything to hear His voice, to feel his presence. He asks me, by covenant, to make uncomfortable changes in what I eat, what I wear, how I spend my money, how I spend my time. And with every sacrifice I make He pours out His Spirit on me.
For full disclosure, coffee was never my thing, but it made a better and more relatable example than mine would have.

Sarah, I had the exact same problem but with the Word of Wisdom instead of with the garments. I'll explain.
There is nothing evil or sinful about coffee. And yet the Word of Wisdom prohibits me from having any and that annoyed me to no end. I like my coffee. I'm a coffee connesuir. But I promised, by getting baptized, that I would abide by that particular commandment.
In the beginning it was a source of great discomfort for me. It put me in a bad mood. It even robbed me of having the Spirit with me at times. Then I realized that coffee was doing nothing at all. I was putting me in a bad mood, robbing myself of the Spirit. I tried a bit harder.
And, little by little, abstaining from coffee became a sacrifice that I was willing to do, happy to do to enjoy the amazing blessings that the gospel has brought into my life. I didn't understand the relationship between coffee and God but I was on board with the process. Now when I smelled a fine Colombian roast blend it made me think of the gospel and of the joy it brings rather than think of what I was missing and what I had given up.
And that's when I realized the relationship between coffee and God, and between garments and God. It's a daily, constant reminder that I'll give anything to hear His voice, to feel his presence. He asks me, by covenant, to make uncomfortable changes in what I eat, what I wear, how I spend my money, how I spend my time. And with every sacrifice I make He pours out His Spirit on me.
For full disclosure, coffee was never my thing, but it made a better and more relatable example than mine would have.

Yeah, I don't do immigration law, but the thing sounds a little off.  Just a month or so ago I read an article about a couple that met and married at BYU; the wife was a Russian national.  They honeymooned in Mexico, and when they returned to the US--oops!--ICE detained them at the border.  ICE wasn't amused at the marriage, and she was deported forthwith (here's their Facebook page).  So, I don't think the marriage itself really changes anything from an ICE standpoint.
 
I'm with the others re defending the cousin.  Before the marriage I might be raising holy hades; but at this point:  The judge has made the announcement, the rings are on the fingers--it's a done deal.  Either the groom is a stand-up guy, in which case you will want to have a good relationship with the couple; or he's an abusive dirtbag, in which case he is now deliberately trying to isolate your cousin from the rest of the family and family opprobrium will play right into his hands.  In no scenario does it now do any good to make your cousin feel any more isolation than she's already feeling.
 
As for the objective question of whether it's acceptable to delay a temple marriage to ensure that some sort of marriage happens at all--well, the issue is on appeal to the First Presidency, so I guess we'll find out. 

Some random thoughts on the matter. I'll make an effort to pull them together into a cohesive format.
Most of the comments at least touch on the fact that we believe God is in charge and calls who He will. Those who voice disappointment or chagrin at the choices made try to downplay that doctrine.
The Church of today is, organizationally, very different from the Church in 1850 or in the time of Christ. The skill set required is very different so it isn't useful to compare today's Apostles to those in past eras. The vast majority of men who have decades of experience in Church service at various levels are white. That's today's talent pool. Thirty years from now there will be a whole new crop of men who have thirty years experience and who come from all over the globe.
And the last, most important point that I've heard on the subject is this. The detractors suggest that the Apostles should represent the racial and cultural diversity that exists in a global church. Nope. The Apostles are not called to represent us to the Lord. They are Christ's representatives to us.

Some random thoughts on the matter. I'll make an effort to pull them together into a cohesive format.
Most of the comments at least touch on the fact that we believe God is in charge and calls who He will. Those who voice disappointment or chagrin at the choices made try to downplay that doctrine.
The Church of today is, organizationally, very different from the Church in 1850 or in the time of Christ. The skill set required is very different so it isn't useful to compare today's Apostles to those in past eras. The vast majority of men who have decades of experience in Church service at various levels are white. That's today's talent pool. Thirty years from now there will be a whole new crop of men who have thirty years experience and who come from all over the globe.
And the last, most important point that I've heard on the subject is this. The detractors suggest that the Apostles should represent the racial and cultural diversity that exists in a global church. Nope. The Apostles are not called to represent us to the Lord. They are Christ's representatives to us.

Some random thoughts on the matter. I'll make an effort to pull them together into a cohesive format.
Most of the comments at least touch on the fact that we believe God is in charge and calls who He will. Those who voice disappointment or chagrin at the choices made try to downplay that doctrine.
The Church of today is, organizationally, very different from the Church in 1850 or in the time of Christ. The skill set required is very different so it isn't useful to compare today's Apostles to those in past eras. The vast majority of men who have decades of experience in Church service at various levels are white. That's today's talent pool. Thirty years from now there will be a whole new crop of men who have thirty years experience and who come from all over the globe.
And the last, most important point that I've heard on the subject is this. The detractors suggest that the Apostles should represent the racial and cultural diversity that exists in a global church. Nope. The Apostles are not called to represent us to the Lord. They are Christ's representatives to us.

Some random thoughts on the matter. I'll make an effort to pull them together into a cohesive format.
Most of the comments at least touch on the fact that we believe God is in charge and calls who He will. Those who voice disappointment or chagrin at the choices made try to downplay that doctrine.
The Church of today is, organizationally, very different from the Church in 1850 or in the time of Christ. The skill set required is very different so it isn't useful to compare today's Apostles to those in past eras. The vast majority of men who have decades of experience in Church service at various levels are white. That's today's talent pool. Thirty years from now there will be a whole new crop of men who have thirty years experience and who come from all over the globe.
And the last, most important point that I've heard on the subject is this. The detractors suggest that the Apostles should represent the racial and cultural diversity that exists in a global church. Nope. The Apostles are not called to represent us to the Lord. They are Christ's representatives to us.