NeedleinA

At least the vaping industry is not targeting little kids with happy fun lovable characters like cigarettes did with Joe Camel and others. Oh wait...

(Echoes from the dungeon cave).... "nooo moorreee Gaattoor popppp tarrrtss forr meee"

Back to my dungeon I go... way to flip it on me... (silently hangs head low and crawls away now)

Nope ....just having fun Gator!

As long as they report the entire story... The electricity from the lightning bolt actually traveled through the statue, into the temple, and was eventually rerouted to a small 3rd world country giving them enough power to run things for a month. Said country thanked the Church for their continual humanitarian efforts!

Yum. It supposedly tastes better in the form of a fish stick.

I bet once @Sunday21 logs back on the forum and sees what her "Good Things" thread has turned into, she might want to kick one or two of us. So... I came across a good thing for her! Yep, just in case you needed them, here they are:

Hey, just trying to give Zil what she ordered. But for you Carb, one bottle of lightning infused Kim Chee!

Hilarious response!

My crystal ball sees a church history tour for you and Lady Gator coming up for about a month or so... (Is that still in the works by the way?)

"Not anymore. We all can be pretty dense sometimes." - ask to put an announcement in the Ward Bulletin... "leave the Gators alone about kids, CAUTION: they bite!" Hah! For the pure survival of my children, I have learned to cook 3 things: scrambled eggs (breakfast), hot dogs (lunch) and macaroni (dinner). If they have been really-really good or I want to win Father of the Year Award, I'll actually put hot dogs in the macaroni... SHAZAMMMM a whole new meal!

Oh boy, hot Pop-Tarts, served Gator style! Pass out enough of those tarts, you would think people would take the hint?

You could always reverse the question... "Yah, kids might come some day, but on a different note how is your diet going these days Bro./Sister__________?"

Geeezzz, 10 years and no kids! What's wrong with your spirituality Gator? ----joking I find that most people bring up repetitive subjects sometimes not so much because of the subject, but because they can't or don't have anything else to talk about with you. Most members don't know a whole lot about me, except my family size and I own a small business. So... every time they see me, it is "how is business, you staying busy? etc." My actual friends know not to ask me about work. When I'm at work it is game face, but after work it is the last thing I want to talk about I think when it comes to "kids", people just fall back to what they consider an easy topic... though if they thought it through better they might zip their lips. My brother and his wife either can't or can't easily have kids. Many tried and failed attempts. Super hard subject for them. Along with other bigger reasons he doesn't go to church any longer but always uses "people bothering me about kids" as an excuse.

Voila! Thunderstorm added, minus lightning.

So basically a polite body builder pumped up on Kim Chee who opens the doors of BMWs and cuddles up in his Star Wars jammies at night? I like the "good thing" of super quick Photoshop.

Thanks for sharing this Zil and having the presence of mind to talk to him about it.

Why apologize to her? " Although downplayed and dismissed by many, pornography consumption by a spouse is devastating and should not be underestimated in terms of the far-reaching consequences it has on trust, intimacy, family life, children, finances, the marital friendship, and, in a growing number of cases, the existence of the marriage itself. Aside from abuse, I know of no other marital issue that affects the very soul of women more than pornography consumption by a spouse. " " Pornography, by nature and name, diminishes: virtue, love, creativity, healthy sexuality, personal and relational growth, and honesty."

You are correct, I don't know the OP, however, I don't need to know him to fully know what common and consistent fruits manifest themselves as a result of pornography. It's pretty much a universal freebie that these fruits follow during porn use.

If someone functions at 100% with or without porn, why stop then? Why repent? If no one is getting hurt, great! - lets all watch porn, what is the difference?

While I can appreciate the sentiment that all of you are trying to express, "shelter the wife and help her avoid future pain", those that only follow this line of thinking are fundamentally missing the point of why he should be telling her to begin with. It appears we are only focused on the possible/probable "future pain", and that we are creating a convenient excuse for not apologizing for "past pain". Talking to his wife is first and foremost for her benefit, not his. A chance to help make her whole again, you know the person that was actually wronged during the marriage. Him being able to offload his personal guilt is only secondary, but not the primary purpose. Restitution is about making right/helping/healing the "other" person. By healing the other person, the sinner is then able to truly unburden himself of his guilt. By not telling his wife, he is doing a disservice to both parties. I think the hold up for most people is the subject matter involved. The matter of pornography is a subject that hits home for many people, and as such we look for any possible loophole we can find. We are human, I get it. If we were talking about a wife not knowing about her husband's past drug abuse problem during their marriage, I think most of us would have a much clearer perspective on how we would handle things. The wife deserves and is entitled to an apology, an apology for his: spiritual absence, his physical absence while off viewing porn, his diminished affection towards her, his decline in patience and long suffering with her, his reduced tenderness during intimacy, his desire to place his needs above hers, etc. etc. If he didn't actually hurt her during the time of his porn use (which appears to be the defense), why then the fear to tell her about it all? If she wasn't hurt then, why would she be hurt now? Hurt from what? Either the porn user was so incredibly good at hiding things that the wife had absolutely zero clue...OR...she always knew/felt something was off/wrong but she couldn't figure it out, and so she blamed herself instead for all those years. Why aren't I a better wife? I wish I was more attractive? I must have done something wrong because he is short tempered with me again, etc. One school of thought is: Don't tell her ever. The other school of thought is: Do tell her at some point. She deserves an apology. There are wiser/smarter times than others to have this conversation. I would suggest the best time to do it is when the Spirit tells you, "this is the time". If the OP says "I feel like I need to talk to her", then who are any of us to tell him not to? Everyone benefits from this apology. While we might measure the success or lack thereof only by the immediate or short term feedback, we need to view this in the eternal perspective. In the long run it is better for both parties.

@zomarah I think between @estradling75 , @Latter-Day Marriage and myself, we have outlined enough information to paint a clear picture of the issue. If I'm understanding you correctly: 1. You agree that using pornography is a sin. 2. Yet, you don't believe using pornography while married in any way hurts the spouse of the user. 3. Since it supposedly does not "hurt" the spouse, there is no reason to apologize to them once the user does decide to repent. 4. Repenting of pornography while married only involves the offender and the Lord, but not the offended. If I am understanding your correctly, and you have some how convinced yourself that porn use does not affect/hurt your relationship with your spouse, then I'm sorry but we have major fundamental differences in our understandings of the effects of porn, what sin is, how to repent and ultimately what restitution really means. Having sat on many disciplinary councils, both Stake and Ward, your responses to this thread strike me as oh too familiar. They come across almost word for word as someone who has struggled with porn themselves. Struggled to the point of doing everything in their power to "justify" things in their mind and not to take "full" responsibility for it, only "half" responsibility. Giving the outward appearance of full repentance, they wrestle the subject in their minds until they can find what they think is a gospel loophole to excuse themselves from the demands of justice. They hear what they want to hear, what sounds pleasing unto themselves and rationalize that they have not hurt others. Those who can not get over this hump, rather than listen to Church counsel, then produce statements like, "The subject of marriage, adultery, fornication etc has been a subject of my research for some time...Church disciplinary councils may do what they want. According to my own experience they are hardly indicative of the Lord's will." If I had to guess, it would not surprise me in the least to find out, that this subject isn't simply one of curiosity, but rather something that is very personal to you for a personal reason. I will respond in a moment: Why is talking to the spouse important/required?

(Answer:) Elder L. Whitney Clayton: "Along with losing the Spirit, pornography users also lose perspective and proportion." Elder Dallin H. Oaks: "Pornography impairs one's ability to enjoy a normal emotional, romantic and spiritual relationship with a person of the opposite sex... It impairs decision-making capacities" There are wonderful members of the church who struggle with pornography, some even right here on this forum. We pray for one another as we each fight our own personal battles and do the best we can. As we strive to choose the right, may we not let the Father of all Lies deceive us into thinking that the issue of pornography doesn't affect others around us, especially our spouses.

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