Dove

Hello, LMM; I've got to believe that this is "allowed" for the best eternal welfare of the person who experiences the "consequences." That even those consequences are actually for their learning and growth. And even for the learning and growth of the innocent people around them who are called to bear the burdens of the consequences in one way or another. Like the people whose loved ones are killed by a drunk driver or that are crippled or permanently injured in an accident that was not their fault. Please know that I do NOT support drunk driving in the least. That I'm grateful for the relatively new laws in effect that prohibit drunken driving.... I say this point though because so often I've seen miracles on behalf of others that may/may not seem to deserve it. I see miracles in my own life that I don't deserve. I've irresponsibly controlled(not controlled) my diabetes for 20+ years; yet, I still see and am relatively healthy. I've heard many others bear their testimony to being physically/emotionally/etc., saved when, by all means, they shouldn't have been. I reconcile this with the belief that there is a purpose in all things that happen...that God's ways are not our ways nor do we understand the intricacies of His handiwork in each of our lives. This belief leads me to want to be more humble and easily lead by the Holy Ghost. To trust in His will for me. Dove

Hello, Kathysmike; Wow, I am really concerned for you. Please get help....Maybe see about getting a social worker to help you find resources for further help. Especially with your health problems and such... My sister has an autistic son as well as being on disability for various health problems. I know she can get aids to come into her home to help her with her son. I'm wondering if the same can be available to you. There has got to be resources that you can turn to. This seems to be too much for you to handle alone. Thanks much for coming to this forum to reach out...Please keep us posted as to what's happening. Dove

Hey, Snow; I think what I'm trying to say is that if anyone is in pain, or have pain as a constant in his/her life, that trying to medicate that pain through drugs is a very natural and easy thing to do. If I was in extreme pain from breaking a bone, and knew a pill would take away that pain, I would be very likely to take that pill. I would also likely rationalise taking the pill by telling myself that I would quit it once the source of the pain was gone. I probably would underplay the negative effects of taking the pill just so I could take it and stop the pain. If I had never taken the pill before, I wouldn't understand the addictive components it contained....Therefore I would be hooked on it before I even realised how difficult it would be to quit. To me, it's entrapment....So, this is the natural process of addiction for many people. While it may be a "choice," it's a very easy choice to make when the alternative it to abstain and stay in the extreme pain. As far as my personal experience with this~ I believe that the atonement has alleviated the pain of me quitting smoking. I would not have quit had God not intervened on my behalf and alleviated the pain I felt when not smoking. Even if it was just psychological/emotional pain (I was already on Chantix), the pain was very real to me. I know it was divine intervention that I had the strength to quit. Dove

jmjlaw; I apologise if I sounded "condescending" or that I was insincere in my response to you.... That certainly wasn't my intent to do so~ I don't feel I have much to offer you in the way of answers you may be seeking. I think maybe you are the only one who would have those answers Dove

Hello, Snow. Nice to see you writing on the forums again~:) I disagree with what you're saying in a few ways. I feel your explanation of drug addicts is pretty much a blanket statement. We don't know what drives an individual into trying drugs or remaining on drugs. There are many different reasons. A lot of times drug abuse/substance abuse/anything that encourages and reveals compulsivity, is a form of self medicating for pain. Physical and mental pain. There are usually of lot of complex issues going on in the psyche of those who end up abusing drugs or any addictive behaviour. This world is full of painful, frightening and overwhelming situations. As I said in my last post, all of us sin to one degree or another. I contest that sinning, natural as it is for all of us, really isn't about true choice. True choice comes through being righteous, through the effects of the atonement, when facing difficulty and pain ridden experiences in the midst of making these choices.

Hello, Kathysmike; Thank you... I'm glad and hope you are feeling better with your blood pressure being resolved and with you health overall....I have a lot of different health problems myself, along with others... I have difficulty often in feeling overwhelmed. I tend to give up when I feel this way. Basically, why try when I'm going to fail anyway? I'm trying to focus on being happy for and doing what I can do without thinking so much about what I can't....The serenity prayer comes to mind as I write this; "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Partly because of my choices in life, there are many things I feel restricted in now. I try to be grateful for the most basic things. For a roof over my head, clothes on my back and food on my table. For my sanity. For God's awareness of and love for me. As I reflect on these things, more and more things come to my mind that I can be profoundly grateful for; A husband who loves me, family/friends who love me as well. My health, such as it is. Having had diabetes for 20+ years, I'm so grateful that I can still see, that I have my organs functioning as well as they are and that I still have my legs. The greatest relationship/purpose in my life is Heavenly Father; the Godhead. Scripture study and prayer keep me plugged in to their love and guidance for me. This is where my sense of well being comes from. Thanks Dove

Wow, it amazes me how much you have gone through....I really respect your strength in enduring what has been required of you.. And honestly, I feel you are expecting too much out of yourself given the health problems you are describing. It sound really dangerous for you to be passing out on the road....Probably better not to drive if your health causes you to do that. It sounds like, by what you've written that, you are wanting a semblance of normalcy in how you live your life. Your expectations and what is realistic for you to be able to do don't seem to match up right now. My suggestion is to trust...Trust in God that He is working a perfect work in your life. He is keenly aware of you and your sufferings. This is not accidental; meaning, their is a purpose in all this for you. Mosiah 3:19 comes to mind; "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his Father." What do you think of "submitting" to that which the Lord sees as fit to inflict upon you throughout your life? Do you feel you can submit to the restrictions your health problems are placing on you and your way of living? Please know I mean this in all good will...I believe honesty is important. I hope I haven't been too harsh in giving you my .02 cents worth. Don't forget how deeply God loves you. Please read Doctrine and Covenants section 122~ The Lord's answer to Joseph Smith's pleadings to Him in some of his darkest hours. I hope all this helps Dove

Hello, Slamjet; I really appreciate you bringing up this point....Yeah, I believe, and feel I have seen many times where people who have been abused growing up are rather doomed to making bad choices in their life as a result of the abuse...My life has played this out as well as many others I have seen who have gone through similar circumstances I have (abuse in our childhoods). If I know the statistics correctly, they will support what I'm saying. (Correct me if I'm wrong, LMM. :) ) I have also heard that the most formative years in a persons' life are the first six years. That what they experience in these years are like an imprint for how they know to act/relate to others for the rest of their lives... I think this simply brings us to the first point about the atonement, that all of us are powerless to make righteous choices without the effects of the atonement in each of our lives. Each one of us need the Saviour to avoid destruction. This is perhaps just more apparent in the lives of those who have suffered abuse and have not been able to cope with it well, which is the vast majority of people who have experienced this.... Also, I take comfort in the fact that God, the Father and the Son, know perfectly what contributes to the choices each one of us make....and will judge us accordingly. Yeah, I do believe there are different levels of accountability for each individual who "chooses" to sin. I say it this way, because all of us sin to one degree or another. That is our natural and fallen state. I believe choice truly comes in when we go against the natural inclination to sin and, through the atonement, choose righteousness instead. Dove

Hello, Jmijaw; Sorry to hear your feelings on the gospel and plan of salvation. It saddens me that you believe what you have written. It would be really hopeless to me if I believed what you were writing was true~ Do you typically read the scriptures? A lot of scriptures come to my mind that conflict with what you have written and what you portray as being doctrine... I have been trying to find the scriptural references to back up the points I'm going to make. It's hard to find them off the cuff. I will simply say where you can find the scripture to the points I'm going to lay out... Question 1) If a person here on earth did not have the chance to hear about the restored gospel; but, would have embraced it had they been given the chance to do so, they will be rewarded as if they had actually heard and accepted the truth while alive....This is why temple work is so important to do. In the temple we vicariously perform the ordinances for the dead that they did not have the opportunity to do while here on earth...You can find scriptures in the Doctrine and Covenants that support this. 2) Don't forget that God is just in all things....We are all rewarded in this estate according to our faithfulness in the pre-existence. I have been taught that we are placed on earth at given times and in given circumstances according to our valour in the pre-existence. Also, don't forget what I wrote in the first answer. We will all be treated fairly in our opportunity to hear and accept the plan of salvation (or not) and in the consequences that follow. 3) I've never heard of "Hobson's choice;" but I have struggled with this point....the seemingly only choice in my life is to either accept and follow Christ or be destroyed. There seems to be no in between for me. However, I choose to feel gratitude for the saving grace Christ has wrought for me through the atonement. I believe my greatest happiness lies in fully embracing and being true to the gospel of Christ and the covenants I have made to the Father and Son. The Saviour means it when He says that He is the way, the truth and the light. I can believe that at face value. 4) First of all, the glory of the lowest kingdom and having a body (what we receive just for coming here) far exceeds anything that can be achieved by not coming and experiencing this earthly estate. While, according to the Doctrine and Covenants, we are punished for sinning against the light and knowledge we already have acquired here on earth. we will still eventually be assigned a kingdom of glory that, again, far exceeds in glory and joy the state those who did not choose to come to earth and gain a body can attain. 5) A basic teaching of the Book of Mormon is that we are not held accountable for knowledge we do not have. We are only held accountable for sinning against truths the Holy Ghost has born witness to us as being true....I don't know about the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then again, I don't know why the adversary chose outer darkness. I just have the faith that God is just and merciful in all His dealings with His children, and that we get the fair punishment to our actions. 6) Except for outer darkness, I believe the doctrine to be that we are punished for a certain amount of time, and then assigned a kingdom of glory..Maybe this is where our agency truly comes into play. Maybe not all of us would want to return back to God's presence. Maybe we would rather be elsewhere. There are many beautiful passages in the Doctrine and Covenants about this topic...I haven't quite reconciled the teaching concerning outer darkness. However, as I just said in another thread, I have been told that Brigham Young taught that were we to know the glory of the lowest kingdom of Heaven, that we would kill ourselves just to be there. Something I've thought about.... As far as your last paragraphs are concerned, please don't down play the importance of our agency....For reasons I don't fully understand, opposition is essential for our learning, our growth, our potential and our agency. What you write portrays God as unfair and rather spiteful. Punishing us for things we should not be punished for. This is just not true. Again, I believe in a fair, just and merciful God. That what you say is punishment is a simply a natural cause of our sin. Best of wishes in you journey towards hope and faith~ Dove

I believe that the only way we can choose righteousness is through reliance on the atonement...Not through our own merit. Believing we can do it on our own is a form of pride~I'm thinking of the scripture I just quoted in my first thread... I'm also thinking Ether 4:12, which quotes the Saviour saying; "And whatsoever persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me- that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father, I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world." I can never forget what the Saviour has done for me and my own powerless state without Him... Dove

Hello, Slamjet; Your op reminds me of Ether 12:27~ "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them." I don't believe all of us will not be tempted above that which we can bear....I think of all the atrocities committed by men against humanity in general. I think of the children who witnessed the atrocities of the holocaust and went insane as a result. They were certainly given more than what they could stand/bear. How I reconcile this with my belief in a kind, loving and just God is that we will not be held accountable for anything we do not have the strength to bear nor the knowledge to overcome because of the atonement. Meaning, if we lose it in our innocence, we will not be held accountable. As far as addictions go, I'm so pleased and happy to report that I have been smoke free for over a month now. I have a profound testimony of the atonement and the grace of Christ in giving me the power to overcome this addiction. Even though I had a weak and vacillating desire to quit, this desire to quit was only granted through the atonement and; I believe, the faith and prayers of many people around me. I know it wasn't me only that I desired to do so.... I believe God is over all; even though there are so many horrors on earth. God is the perfect judge and perfectly merciful as well. I believe that He will see that it all comes out justly, fairly and for our best eternal benefit in the end. Dove

[quote name=MormonMama;652918 I think you might have hit on something there. I had horrible self-esteem growing up (in spite of growing up in a very loving and supportive family) and tried to commit suicide twice as a teenager in large part to being bullied and made fun of most of my childhood. Although my self-esteem is a lot better now' date=' I think my subconscious is probably still very sensitive to anything I see as an attack on my self or my choices in life. e)! Hello, MormonMama; Thanks so much for sharing this. Wow, how intense!! I really relate, because I was bullied a lot throughout my school years. Unfortunately, my dad was very abusive to his whole family while I grew up. All this has really done a number on my self esteem. It's quite a battle for me to just feel a sense of well being day by day~ Thanks so much for your candour and kindness in responding to my post. Dove

Hello, Mormon Mama; I relate to what your saying in the sense that when I get hurt by others I see as attackative it does bring me down and takes me a long time to get over... Some things that help me to heal is to pray to understand why it is bothering me so much. (to pray for self honesty) To be gentle with myself if I need to grieve about it awhile. One big thing that has come to me over and over again in dealing with my hurt is to focus on forgiving and even praying for the people who have offended me.... So often it comes down to my self esteem. That somewhere in my hurt I believe that I deserve the unkindness of others and that they are somehow correct or right to treat me the way they have. This is a big issue for me that I am working on. Along with praying and scripture study, reaching out to those I know love me and will be positive with me for support is helpful. Doing things that are productive and positive (like cleaning my house, being kind to others, serving etc.) is helpful too. Best of wishes in working through this.. Dove

Connie, Why don't you just honestly address those people who have offended you in a kind and respectful way instead of making a general statement towards, who knows? As you've probably guessed, I believe I am one you are talking about. I defended the woman in your other thread by saying not to judge; who felt she had received revelation to not work and instead, take care of her children. It was only later that you clarified there were actually two women, and one wanted to have children and then not work. There is a difference in being under the wrong impression to let people know that the sacrament is only for members and judging others as unworthy. It is the church's policy to allow only "worthy" members of the church to enter the temple. What would you do if you knew a person was entering the temple "unworthily" or under false pretences? Look the other way? Maybe you feel that it's none of your business to say anything. I don't know....I was construing the sacredness of the sacrament as on the level of going to the temple, as something to respect and defend. However, I will always defer to what the prophet and quorum of the twelve counsel concerning sacred ordinances. Other than that, it is not my problem or business to judge how the ordinances should be administered or adhered too. It's not my place but too support and uphold the prophet and the quorum's counsel. I'm rather relieved to take this stance. For the record, I would have never supported telling others with rudeness not to take the sacrament. More so, when my friends saw me not partake, they respected that and did the same without me saying anything. I had not had the opportunity or had not remembered to do so in that instance. It was not offensive to them and it was not a big deal. Dove

Hello, Martain; I think this is an important doctrine to understand and follow. That is, the seriousness of the covenants we make at baptism and to respect God in how we treat the holy ordinances. I do agree with what you have written...... However, I remember as a missionary at a ward sacrament meeting, for some reason there were many non-members there. The bishop got up and told them that it was their decision to partake of the sacrament or not. I remember being upset at that counsel. But, as it was from the bishop of the ward, I really couldn't say much in way of correcting him.....There was nothing really I could do. It was out of my hands. For those times that I do have a hand in it, i.e., bringing a friend to sacrament meeting with me, I do not hesitate to kindly ask them to respect the ordinance and to explain that it is meant only for baptised members of the church.... There have been many years that I have not been worthy of taking the sacrament, due to WofW issues. Interestingly enough, in some wards under some bishops they were okay with me taking it and in other wards I was told not to. Regardless, I always followed the counsel of my bishop~ Dove

Margin of Error~ I really appreciate your intelligent arguments and reasoning about this. You said far better what I was trying to say all along; which was that we shouldn't be so quick to judge another at all, unless we are the "judges of Israel." Thanks so much for defending this unknown woman.

I agree with and appreciate this comment, Rameumptom. I do have a "but," to add though. It is that there is a hierarchy in the gospel to determine if a person other than ourselves is receiving false revelation. For instance; yes, absolutely, my bishop, who is a steward over me, can receive revelation for me/on my behalf that if what I'm perceiving is coming from the Spirit actually is or not. However, that same bishop cannot receive revelation for the prophet in regards to the church as a whole. He cannot determine direction for the membership of the church. That is the prophets role.... What I'm saying is let's be careful in judging this particular instance/person as right or wrong or in a derogatory way. It's just not fair. We don't know the intent of her heart or if she is truly acting out of being crazy or lazy, as I've said. Honestly, this is a sensitive topic to me, as I'm on disability for psychiatric reasons. I've suffered for many years with extreme depression, as well as other diagnosis'....I have been hospitalised several times for this and have had difficulty keeping jobs throughout the years~ I'm sharing this because when I did finally apply for psychiatric disability, while I was immediately given it after applying, I went through an extensive process of documenting my psychiatric problems. This included providing the names and contact information of doctors, former employers and family members who knew me and how I lived.....I certainly needed to prove my disability to the government in order to receive benefits.... I do feel bad for receiving assistance now and not being able to work. I have tried to work a couple of fast food jobs; but, was unable to do so. It is my hope to become stabilised on my medications and to eventually have the mental/physical health to enter the workforce again.This is my hope..... I have heard many horror stories about women conceiving and bearing children just to receive more welfare. How awful if this is true. However, my experience with the government has been different. This is not to say that the government hasn't spent taxpayers money wrongly. It is to say that there are many valid instances where people do need assistance~ And that it's not ours to judge or put down those situations we don't know or have not authority over. Dove

When your bishop says it's okay after an honest and upfront discussion with him concerning the sexual sin you are doing.... When you feel it's okay/that you're worthy... When you want to. It sounds like your heart isn't really in the gospel right now. If you are doing things that the church teaches are immoral; please, definitely do not take the sacrament. I don't know how much you believe in this religion. I would just ask that you respect the belief that the sacrament is a sacred renewing of the covenants members have made at baptism. I, too, have had my share of sinning and problems with the church. However, I have always believed that I would play by the "rules" of the church regardless of whether or not I was going to be a part of it; i.e., that if I wasn't living the standards/beliefs/teachings/doctrines of the LDS church, that I wouldn't also desecrate the sacred ordinances by taking them when I wasn't worthy. It's kind of like adding insult to injury to me if I were to do this. It is really important to me to uphold the holiness of the covenants I've made; both in baptism and in the temple. The scriptures specifically warn about knowingly taking the sacrament unworthily and the damnation that follows....I just ask that you respect this even if you don't believe in it. Thanks Dove

After reading through all the threads, one thought that comes to my mind is, who are we to judge? A lot of the responses towards this woman, whom we don't even know, have been rather derogatory..... I think "minding our own business" goes a little farther than simply not saying what's in our hearts. "Minding our own business" can apply to our heart and thoughts as well. Maybe this sister doesn't want to work in order to stay home (be a stay at home mom) and raise her children. I don't know, neither do I know the church's position on this. I do remember as a missionary a father whose wife had left their family of at least four kids. He quit his job to be a stay at home dad. They were impoverished. I, myself, would be more than willing to give what money I could to help in a situation like that. Why not do the same for a woman who wants to raise her children? I do think it is church policy for a single mother to get work should she need to do so to be self-sufficient in raising her family. I just disagree with the inferences that this woman whom we don't even know is somehow lazy or crazy. I don't think this stance is fair. Dove

Hi Angel333; I know there is a doctrine of Spirit Prison. I believe you can study it in the Doctrine and Covenants....I looked it up and there are a lot of topics under "spirit," including "spirit world" in the index... I have also been taught and have heard that Joseph Smith taught that the spirit world/spirit prison is right here amongst us; but, just in another realm. That makes a lot of sense to me given a couple of experiences I've had with spirits and all the reports I've heard of other people having the same kind of experiences. I've often been told in priesthood blessings about the spirits who surround me; both good and evil.... Please don't feel bad about the man who wanted to stay on earth after his death. I believe that each one of us is known unto God and is in the correct place for how we have lived our lives....That man will eventually have the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel. Spirit prison is part of the punishment for those who did not live their lives well in accordance with gospel principals, as far as they could have, given the knowledge they had in their lifetime.... I relate to your concern though. When I have watched TV shows on hauntings, I have often wanted to track down the spirits doing the haunting to do their temple work for them. Please rest assured that God knows of them and their pain and has His hand/works in their lives still.

You know, honestly, I have no idea why opposition is required in all things. I really have no clue. Not even after reading what everyone else has written so far.... All I know is that suffering is an essential part of life down here. That it was essential for the Saviour to experience in order for the plan of salvation to be carried out. To me, it makes sense that if I truly want to understand the Saviour and His life a little, tiny more deeply, that I also need to suffer to a degree that would seem to be astronomical to me..... So, to me the question is really not so much about opposition (I have no idea the happiness in store for me as a result of even just being here) as it is why suffering is so important to experience in our mortal probation....Of course, an easy and obvious answer would be to see if one would still "choose the right" in the face of experiencing seeming punishment/pain/retribution by doing so.... For me, the only time my pain has ever had any meaning is when I have turned to the Father through the atonement of His Son, the Saviour. It is then that my suffering has been turned for my good; instead of being the suffering of a damned soul....Or, as the Book of Mormon has said; "despair cometh because of iniquity." I don't believe that this means that if we are righteous, life will be easier. On the contrary, I believe that often times the more righteous one is, the more one will be required to do or go through, including suffering....I do believe, however, that the suffering will be for their glory, growth, and deeper joy as a result of experiencing it and remaining true to God. Still, this is only my .02 cents on a topic that really mystifies me~ Dove

Hello, Chiccam! Ouch! That's a painful thing to hear your husband say.. So sorry it's happening when you're doing so well in your recovery...Congratulations on your sobriety!! What a huge step to make! I've recently quite smoking. I don't know about you; but, for me it sure is freeing not to have to have a cigarette in my hand to be okay, even though at times I crave a smoke like nothing else, LOL. But, back to your original question about how your husband is treating you. Again, so sorry this is happening and is so difficult during your recovery. I believe the Lord is allowing the adversary to kick at you during this time as a trial and testing period. That being said, I wonder if your impression to stay with a person who sounds like he is mistreating you is really coming from God. Please don't be offended that I would wonder this. There have been times that I thought the Spirit was prompting me, only to wonder if He truly was later, or if it was the adversary posing as Him. I've had to learn to discern/delineate between the adversary and the true promptings of the Holy Ghost.... I don't believe you have to stay with anyone who is being abusive towards you. I don't know if this is how bad your husband is treating you; but, you don't have to tolerate abuse to follow God's will for you, imo. In fact, it is better for your children not to grow up in that kind of environment. If what your husband is doing is just becoming too much for you to handle, that too is a valid reason to take care of yourself and children by distancing yourself from him. For him to say he no longer loves you is a huge red flag. That sounds like he's given up on you and the relationship. More so, it sounds like he has given up on himself in being able to have a trusting and loving relationship with someone else. But, that's not your problem. Your problem is to take care of yourself so you can remain sober and there for your children. Don't forget the serenity prayer; "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the thins I can; and the wisdom to know the difference." To me, this means there are many things I cannot control, including other people; their actions and choices....The only person/things I can control, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, is myself, my actions and my choices...It is not my responsibility to change anyone. I can support others in their efforts to change for the better. But, in the end, whether or not they change is up to them and their Creator. I can be there to love, support, encourage, etc., but, they've got to do the work. As I must for myself~ Have you considered talking to your bishop, ecclesiastical leader, or a therapist for the best way to handle this situation? It sounds like it's a "living hell" for you and your children. I believe this is definitely something your shouldn't have to subject yourself too.... Just my .02 cents worth. Take Care and Best Wishes in what you do decide to do. Dove

Hello, Lizzie; I've been thinking about your post. I have very few close friends. These comprise of members of my family~My mom, Still, I've been learning a great deal about how to relate to others....It's often a lonely and painful road for me. But, still, I'm learning good things. Like, to release all expectations I have of others. Also, that it's the Saviour/Heavenly Father who are truly my best friends. I also like what Prison Chaplain said. He had a real spirit of forgiving and focusing on what ones' self can do for others.... I am soo grateful for the love my family shows me!! While true friendship eludes me in quantity, the quality of the few friends I do have means the world to me..... Best of wishes Dove

Hello, RCB; Wow, it sounds like you are in a difficult situation altogether. Sorry to hear that you have to deal with this person often at work. So, I am rooting for you and am on your side. Please don't take anything I say as a jab or put down, just my honest .02 cents worth..... First of all, confronting him in front of guests, did you say? As you probably already realize, that is a pretty big no no.... Other than that, I don't agree with you confronting him at all. Most of what he is doing/complaining/whining/boasting about really has nothing to do with you and is really none of your business. However, if you find it difficult to be around and that it keeps you from doing your job, that is your business. I wouldn't confront him, as he could feel attacked by you and try to attack you back, or maybe feel really hurt and what an awkward situation it would create. I would go directly to his boss/manager/supervisor (or yours) and express how difficult it is to be around him with his negative attitude. Let them handle the confrontation and possible disciplinary actions. Lastly, don't be too hard on yourself. Yeah, I am concerned that you confronted him in front of your guests. But that more so because I'm worried about disciplinary action taken against you for doing so rather than your co-worker getting the action that needs to be given. However, a lot of people are probably aware of his problems. That means more understanding/patience/compassion will be given to you as a result. Honestly, a lot of variables will probably be taken into consideration when the manager hears what happened. I don't know, but would like to think so.. Regardless, when I'm in a difficult waiting period, personal prayer asking for guidance and comfort really do help. The best Dove

Hello, IamMe; Thanks so much for responding with your experiences. Sorry it took so long to respond as I just found that you had written this. I really have no hope of getting along with my in laws in the immediate family. The first 3 years of my marriage I really did try, to no avail. Now, I just go to please my husband and try to focus on the people at the parties who are friendly and welcoming to me. Save for a fight with my MIL a few years ago, I have done nothing to be rude or unkind. Except for being cold and distant at times with people who have said things against my family in general..... I had a therapist give me an interesting piece of advice concerning this situation. He said that even if I do try and make up with the whole family and do everything I can to make it better; that they will not change. They won't unless they see they have a problem and truly want to. So, it is what it is. I am so glad to be learning humility and to see myself as my biggest problem; no one else. It is a painful and difficult experience to be around my in laws. But, I am making changes in my life to enhance my own happiness. This helps me not to care so much about how they treat me. I feel a lot more indifferent towards them and fulfilled in myself. Dove