Dove

Thank you for your honesty. One of the first things I would suggest is to pray and work towards being really honest with yourself as to what you can and want to do. Are you as well as you can be with your bi-polar disorder? Are there things you can improve on? Do you feel mentally/emotionally/spiritually/physically well enough to pursue a goal for yourself? While answering that, consider what it is you really would want to do and would enjoy doing. The world is your oyster~There's so many things you can do. What does your heart tell you? It's really up to what you want to create for your life. I would also suggest making God and His Son and the gospel the first priority in your life. Try to choose a field that would not be in conflict with gospel ideals. A personal standard I set for myself for a long time was to not work on the Sabbath. It's up to you to decide what works for you. It sounds like what God has planned for you is very important to you at this time. Good for you! Maybe an institute class right now would be helpful, to learn more about Him. I believe He does have a plan for you. Do all that you can to understand what this is, and He will lead and guide you towards what will truly make you happy.

To answer your last question, I believe there are plenty of angry spirits in the spirit world. The Book of Mormon has many verses on the wicked suffering in spirit prison. It makes a lot of sense to me that those who allowed anger to consume their lives here will have to deal/experience their anger on the other side. About God's anger. I believe His anger is very much different from the anger of man. With Him being perfect; no, I don't think He ever experiences frustration in His exalted state. I believe He has full control of His emotions and actions. Being "omniscient" and knowing the end from the beginning, He is in total control of what's going on here. I believe when the scriptures refer to His "anger/wrath," it is referring to His justness and fairness in dolling out punishment to wicked people who are destructive and deserving of His "wrath." Sort of like when Christ used a whip to throw the money changers out of the temple. He took His time in braiding the whip before using it, and He removed the caged doves out of the temple before He acted, ensuring their safety. This tells me He was in control of His emotions and not acting as a result of them.

Wow! Thanks so much for quoting that scrip~I can't help but wonder if you were inspired to share that. It is a very comforting scrip to me as well. I have it marked and have read it often... Thanks so much for bringing it to my attention again. Dove

PS. I called the church office building in Salt Lake City late tonight and spoke to a receptionist there. She told me to call tomorrow during business hours to let the public affairs dept. know of this site/blog, which is what I'm going to do.

I went to Mich Mayne's website.... I was shocked. It sounds like he is definitely defining himself as "openly gay" and is open to another such relationship in his life. He admits to being "married" (he states he wore a wedding ring in his last relationship) and still holding callings in his ward.... I read his blog, which counsels parents on how to support their teens in their SSA~ Huhh?!?! I"m not even allowed to take the sacrament in my ward simply because I smoke! I know I will not be called to serve in a calling anytime soon because of this. What is going on here? There are a lot of General Authorities who are members of my ward, and my bishop is, or has been (might be emeritus now) a general authority. All the rules are strictly adhered to. This seems like a double standard to me. I don't know fully what's going on. But, as has been said, I feel strongly that something needs to be said...

Hi, JudoMinja; Thanks for your response. Wow! I hadn't quite thought of it in that way. I know I do have a weakness for relying on the "arm of flesh" too much. I still can't wrap my head around having tried to reach out to God through tithing paying and the road is getting steeper as a result. I fear it will keep getting harder the more I try. I don't know when the trials will stop. Some things I am realizing though are to focus on what's really important in life. Is getting a car more important than my eternal salvation? What's more important in the long run? A car or eternal life? I've got to keep telling myself that regardless of what happens, what is important is that I'm striving/doing all I can do to remain true to the covenants I have made to Him. I also want to let go of my expectations as to how the "blessings" He will give me should look like. I want to keep an eternal perspective while taking life one day at a time.... I appreciate what Avrham said in his (her?) post, to be grateful for having a testimony of the Savior. Also, that we have the restored gospel at our disposal in this day. I want to remember my blessings and to have the faith/trust that God will always bless me for my best eternal good.

Thank you, JudoMinja, I'm glad to hear your stories about faith.... It helps me because I have finally paid a full tithing this month. The irony for me is that my husband and I are trying to save up to buy a car. We have lost ours due to not being able to make a payment and keep up with repairs. The short of the long of it is that everything has gotten quite a bit harder. Every avenue I have been counting on to build a nest egg has fallen through. I just found out tonight that, for the first time in months, my husband's hours are being cut at work because they haven't received the materials they need to do an "order.' It's ironic to me that everything I was counting on to save money has been falling through just today. I don't know quite what to do or think. I felt the Spirit guide me earlier to pray for strength to get through this. For some reason He is not giving me an easy answer; but, the road is becoming harder. I'm interested in knowing why... Some things that I can come up with is; He is trying/proving/testing me. Maybe there are more important things for me to learn than getting a car right now. He may be showing me that I need to be more frugal with our money in general. Or, maybe it's not mine to know; but, to follow regardless. Any ideas from others would be helpful and appreciated~ Dove

Thank you for your words, Snow... I do hope people read the links I listed. They are really good articles. I searched and chose them with care. A lot because of another thread recently closed~ :-)

I appreciate your sentiment Snow; but, I really doubt the patriarchal order of the church will change. After reading your link to 'women not to speak in public;" while it was humorous, it also helped me to realize that women really are under the priesthood authority of their husband...It has been this way since Adam and Eve. As much as I struggle with feeling equal under the patriarchal order. I doubt that this aspect will change.... I admit I struggle with this a great deal because of how my dad handled/abused his authority. It leaves me feeling vulnerable and powerless. On the brighter side, I have met many a loving priesthood holder, some in the form of very Christlike bishops. I have a profound testimony of the power of the priesthood and priesthood blessings. I'm grateful that, as has never been to this extent before, women's worth and value are at least acknowledged in the role they have been given.

Well, I guess I am finally understanding Snow's sense of humor, LOL. So much for truly celebrating the women in the church. Oh well, we probably needed the humor more...

I know I'm entering into the conversation late; but, where's the LOL button when I need it! :lol: That was too funny! Thank you, Suzie, for adding humor to my day~

Hello, Tyler90AZ, So glad to hear that your testimony has been restored. What a beautiful thing! This is meant as just a suggestion; but, I am thinking of the 12 step program as I read your posts concerning your wife. I think of the serenity prayer; "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Now is the time to focus on yourself and the repentance you need to do in order to become at peace with your Creator. I don't know your wife, or much about you. I love what the LDS 12 step workbook says; "In taking step 9, you must avoid becoming discouraged if others do not receive your apologies well or if they do not believe you have really changed. Making amends may take time and patience. Give others time to realize that this time is different. This time you are not making empty promises, you are living to receive a complete remission of your addiction and character weaknesses. Eventually, abstinence and changed behavior will speak for themselves." I'm excited to know that you have a testimony of the gospel. My experience of the Father is how loving and kind, patient and forgiving He is. How willing He is to help me through the repentance process if I seek Him diligently. All this is made possible because of the atonement. Heavenly Father is the most forgiving being I have ever known. Don't worry about what others think right now, i.e. the "arm of flesh." Just worry about where you stand with Heavenly Father. He stands with arms wide open ready to receive you through the atonement of His Son. He will help you through this process.

I would like to list links that speak of women in the church. I am taking all of these from lds.org to be sure they are all congruent with church doctrine/principals/counsel. Happy Reading! The Women of God - general-conference Daughters of God - general-conference The Lord as a Role Model for Men and Women - Ensign Aug. 1980 - ensign LDS Church Music Interactive Music Player LDS.org - Mormon Messages Our Sacred Duty to Honor Women - general-conference These are just a few of the many articles I have found on women. Hopefully, these will be as edifying and comforting to you who read them as they were to me. If you can find any other articles from the LDS church, please feel free to post them~ Dove

bcguy, I've noticed you haven't posted since you first started this thread. I'm hoping you are okay and that you're feeling better. I agree with the other threads about the profound sense of loneliness that at times is felt. I have felt this often, even though I am a member of the LDS church. I have related one experience I have had concerning this on another thread. Please let us know how you are doing, and if there is anything we can do to support you right now... Dove

Hey Sunday21; How are you? I hope you are doing well. So sorry you have been feeling alone. I again didn't realize you had responded to my post. I just found it today.... I would like to be friends. I hope things are okay for you. Hope to hear from you soon Take Care Dove

P.S. I had a very comforting and edifying experience tonight with a couple in my building whose lifestyles are about as far removed from LDS standards as can be~ Since I've moved back to Salt Lake City and into "my" new ward, I have had one of the most difficult, full of rejection, experiences I have ever had in a ward all my life....It's been amazing. I have really begun to question why I'm "mormon" or even christian, for that matter. I have been doubting my testimony of the Savior. My friends know of the struggles I've been having in my wards and saw me sitting out on our entryway tonight. One picked up immediately the look of concern on my face. Both of them are non-believers; but, they know that I do. They lovingly counseled and strengthened my in my beliefs, telling me not to be swayed by anyone in my testimony. That if I believed in Christ and that the church was true, to live true to that. Their words helped me to center within myself and to realize/acknowledge what I really did believe. I was able to focus and to feel what was in my heart. I believe in Christ. I say "believe" at this time because I don't have a "sure knowledge." I strongly believe in Him~I know God loves me. The discussion I had with my friends tonight was very inspired on my behalf and showed this in spades. It was so beautiful.... These two friends care to know and love me simply for who I am, nothing more or less. I'm soo grateful for their love and example to me. It's ironic that they are so far removed from the gospel and yet so full of love. This experience has changed me. Dove

Seminary Snoozer~ I don't know...How can we be convinced of anything we don't truly understand? Perhaps it's like knowing that the sun rises and sets on the horizon but not knowing it's the world turning to cause this effect..... I feel a lot of power in the priesthood; Godly power. I feel a lot of spiritual strength from reading the Book of Mormon. I see blessings manifest themselves in my life when I do this consistently. I feel the Spirit talk to me and comfort me often. Yet, there are so many things in the gospel I am not "convinced" of, or haven't received a sure witness about. Of course, this is where faith comes in. I see a lot of opposition in the church, which is what causes me to really question what it is I believe in... I'm not so interested in converting to Buddhism as I am in finding the wonderful truths it has to offer. I would actually like to study the world religions at some point. Even though it is difficult to me to be a "member" of the LDS church, I trust that God will lead me in the paths He wishes me to go. I still question; but, this may be a good thing.

Hello; So sorry you're going thru such a difficult time. Even though I've been a member all my life, I strongly relate to your feelings of isolation. I am married to a member of another church who is not interested in changing. I've never been able to conceive and cannot have children. I have often felt soo alone and isolated in the church, deeply so, in the many years I've been a member.....Currently I'm in a ward that I've not been long in and have experienced much rejection in. My husband and I have felt this to the point that for the first time in the six years of our marriage he will not attend church with me. I have also asked that no members from the ward come to our home. I feel that God is teaching me key concepts in this feeling of being "alone." I remember the first year I came back from several years of inactivity. On New Year's Eve of 1999, I had asked several people if they would like to spend the night with me. No one would. Everyone had other plans. I ended up walking the streets of Salt Lake alone for "First Night," Salt Lakes annual celebration. I even saw "friends" pass me whom I had asked to be with that night...I remember going to a free concert at Temple Square and watching the Utah Symphony play (I"m a violinist). The Spirit kept telling me that I was not alone, even though no one was with me. I kept feeling the Spirit tell me this thru the night. It confused me; yet, I kept feeling it. I still don't get it; even though I have many suppositions as to why this is so. I'm learning not to rely on the "arm of flesh" anymore, i.e. anyone else other than those who "show up" in my life with loving kindness. I"m learning not to expect anything from others and to set boundaries when I don't feel safe. Some things that help me are visits from the missionaries. They are so full of the Spirit and light. I am comfortable asking them for priesthood blessings. They are more than willing to give them. Also, I am finding that positive people do show up in my life when I remove the negative ones and am open to the positive ones. Also, I am striving to become more self reliant in all things. Daily prayer and scripture study is critical in this process. More good things seem to happen when I do this. I feel the Spirit prompt me to believe and have faith in myself as well as Him. Self esteem, loving myself and believing that I can find happiness is so important. I hope these ideas help. Again, I can relate to the pain of your loneliness and sorrow with you... Dove

Hello, I posed a similar question to my stake president about the "necessity" of Lucifer. He told me that it wasn't necessary for Lucifer to fall in order for there to be opposition. That it was his choice..... Though yes, it sure seems like he became part of the plan thru rebelling. As far as I understand it, Lucifer fell because he wanted to take away man's agency and to receive God's glory or power. He can't be redeemed because he rejected the only way he could be; the Redeemer. Now that he has no light or goodness, he doesn't have the power to repent or change.

SpamLDS; Thank you so much for relating the Buddhist beliefs and for expressing what I've been trying to say all along about proselytizing~ It was so nice/refreshing to hear your take..... I really like what I perceive the ideals of Buddhism to be. To me, enlightenment does not focus on things outside oneself in order for one to find inner peace. I love the concepts of harmony, being kind, being "at one" with the universe..... I was talking to my friend about "Brahma." The belief that the Higher Power is in all things I would like to study it more. Finding peace or "enlightenment" is my goal.

Whoa~ This is too extreme, to me..... I am a member who happens to smoke. Where else would you like to ban smoking?! The bars? Already done... My apartment? Already done. Now, outside?! Wow! This is just too much....People can choose to smoke if they want to. Smoking outside is one of our last options. And contrary to what you may perceive; no, we don't intentionally blow it in your face to pollute your lungs. I guess people/smokers can and will, if provoked~ Why not focus on your own "beam?" Meaning, are you so perfect that you can cast all these stones at smokers? Are you walking through 2nd hand smoke all day? Or can you politely avoid it? Just because you don't smoke doesn't mean you may not have faults that smell just as bad in their own way. Would you consider loving the smoker into quitting rather than condemning and judging her?

Hey Tyler; It sounds like you have a lot of issues concerning the church. Honestly, I don't know if this is the ideal place for you to air your concerns. As you can see, a lot of the responses suspect your motive and intent as well as being quite defensive. It's not pretty towards you.... I'm not sure what you are looking for in posting this? Is it a simple direct answer to your question, or to open up a discussion about other issues you may be having? Are you a member? Convert? Former Member? If you're this unhappy with the LDS church, what has lead you to post on LDS Net? To make you aware, I have been a member all of my life. My experience has been that very often there are no threats; either in hate or in love....I have learned that I cannot rely on the "arm of flesh," i.e. other members, for my testimony. This gospel is not for the faint of heart.... The best in your searching~ Dove

I like your saying about affliction~ I am convinced that the road back home is rife with difficulty, as I've already expressed. I haven't resolved yet that all the pain is worth the promised joy. It feels like a carrot to me at times. So, there is the quest for faith and learning for me....I remember the primary song we sung when I was little.....Something about "try, try, try."

Traveler~ You are misconstruing what I'm trying to say...Your example of "my world" is not what I believe and was hurtful. I wasn't trying to slight you or demean your answer. I just don't know that I fully agree with your stance. I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on anyone who doesn't want to hear. Your example reminds me of Noah warning the people of their impending doom if they didn't repent. They were still mocking him when the rains came.....(I think I saw a painting of this at Temple Square....) Noah was called to warn these people. They refused to listen and were destroyed..... My hope in my life is to be what it is I'm preaching in such a way that people will want it, rather than hate me for forcing it on them. I believe in the adage; You draw more flies to honey than to vinegar..... My experience has been that when people are angry or feel that their position/stance is being threatened they will not hear what I'm trying to communicate to them. In the MTC they taught us to "build relationships of trust." Have you heard the saying, "I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care?"The message is meaningless to the person who feels the messenger is an enemy. Maybe I'm off base scriptually speaking.... I'm thinking of the passages in the New Testament where the Savior says, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father; and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother in law...." For me, when I"m at variance with other people I am learning to let go by not jumping into the fray, so to speak, by trying to win them over to my side in any form....either through arguing or pleasing or whatever. I have found this does not work. I don't want to change others so that I can feel better about myself or fulfill a hidden agenda of pride or to validate my beliefs. Maybe you are pure enough to not be preaching/warning for these motives. You know, I have a lot of issues surrounding this. I have long felt ostracized and rejected by various members of our church. It's not a good feeling. Over and over again I have seen hypocrisy by members of all different christian churches....The core principal of the gospel is to love our neighbor as ourselves.....Maybe my definition of what love is differs from other people. To me, love is respecting what I feel is a core principal of the gospel; agency. I can't force another to listen to me. How tiring to keep trying if the other is unwilling..... I'm not unaware of the sacrifice required of each person who is truly seeking to follow the Savior. It's not easy. I hesitate to plunge headlong into introducing concepts that could very well break them or condemn their soul to hell if not followed. I could work on my faith. I struggle with believing that their is "joy" at the end of this long, hot day of life filled with opposition. It's difficult to have hope in the gospel.....I disagree with the "have to, ought to, should" attitude.....I would rather live it in faith that it is worth doing just for the sake of doing it. Not out of fear or guilt or shame; but, out of the belief that by doing so I will receive a fullness of joy and exemplify that joy to others. I don't see this very often. However, I loved what PC wrote about the Savior and the woman taken in adultery. That example soothed my soul. Dove

PS. Isn't it Joseph Smith who said that "I teach the people true principals and then let them govern themselves."?