Dove

Hello, I appreciate this thread being picked up again after a year. I feel it's worth discussing more. As I've read the most current posts some scriptures come to mind; Mosiah 3:2 and 5~ "And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying; O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth and all things; who shall come down among the children of men." (5) "For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state....." Also, Moroni 7:12-14~ " Wherefore all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against Him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin and to do that which is evil continually. But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which invitheth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve Him, is inspired of God. Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil." What I glean from these passages are a couple of answers to the question posed in this post. To me, humility is never forgetting/taking for granted my nothingness before God. That I am "less than the dust" comparatively. I like what was posted earlier; how important it is to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit in my daily decisions rather than my preconceived notions of what I think is right or what I would judge to be wrong. Daily sincere prayer and scripture study are wonderful tools in becoming more "in tune" with the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Then, to me, self-righteousness would be giving myself one iota of credit for having done something "good" rather than giving the credit to Father-in-Heaven and the grace of the atonement. Self-righteousness is presuming that I did it of myself. It is a form of pride. Humility is also never forgetting that I am never better than anyone else. That we are all children of God with the same infinite worth and value. I think of the words to a hymn; "Who am I to judge another, when I walk imperfectly?" I have often felt so judged by other so called "righteous" members. It tries my character to work on not judging in return out of hurt and subsequent anger.....It's letting go and acknowledging others divinely given agency and ability to choose for themselves who they want to be and how they want to act. It's having the faith that through the atonement I can choose to act differently and through grace, be different....

Hello RuthieChan; Thank you for responding with kindness to my post. You're right, part of sustaining my husband is listening/not disregarding his thoughts and feelings..... Part of the rub this issue has for me is, while the quotes you have given me represent the ideal, the concept of "equality" in our church is a relatively new stance. I remember how big ERA (the equal rights amendment) was in the 1970's. While the church opposed this amendment (I honestly have no stance on that issue, being too young to know the intrinsics of it) over the years it has more and more taught the ideology of equality between the sexes. This is quite notable, given how unequal the sexes have been throughout the ages. I appreciate how you have broken down the different meanings of "help meet" and "rule" over. Still, I remember growing up watching how abusive husbands and fathers were treated by different female members of my family. They were treated as if they could do no wrong, reigned without question, and were higher than the rest of us.....It is hard for me to take seriously the written word that is being taught now when I have seen so much to the contrary done in the name of "priesthood authority" while growing up..... There are concepts that help me with this though...One being, as has never been so available to me now as a woman, my agency... I can choose whether or not I will support and sustain the patriarchal order. To me, agency is a core teaching of the restored gospel. This evens the playing ground. I also think of the bishops who have presided over me in absolute humility, meekness and gentle persuasion. This is the ideal, imo..... They have loved me (and my husband) with the pure love of Christ. I will always cherish their friendship and example...Perhaps the most important concept is how wonderfully I am treated by our Heavenly Father through the atonement and the Holy Ghost....He always loves me with a perfect love that has my best eternal welfare at heart. Even during the chastening process that all of us are subject to, I recognize that it is for my own good and done in the pure love of God....Because of this I do have a testimony of the restored gospel, patriarchal order and all....

Yikes, coming from generations of "patriarchal" abuse, this is quite a tender and confused topic for me, LOL.... I used to say that I didn't need my dad's protection so much as I needed protection from him....maybe with humor, but true nonetheless. Of course, there's the little things like deferring to the father for family prayer. Everything else for me is blurred in painful memories of experiences that absolutely diminished my self esteem and sense of worth and value. I resent the "patriarchal" order to a great degree, as perhaps others can imagine with the background I've come from~Do I believe women are treated equally in this order? Straight up, of course not! Do I believe that women are equal in the celestial kingdom? I don't know and have often wondered..... Some things that comfort me about this are the passages in the 121st section of the Doctrine and Covenants and the belief that any position of authority in the gospel is ideally meant to serve others, not control or subject them to their dominion. I like Alma 1:26 as well; "And when the priests left their labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus the were all equal and they did all labor, every man according to his strength." There are many scriptures in the Book of Mormon that support equality among all men. I guess this means women also.... I love my husband dearly and he loves me the same. He is not a member. I do defer to him in who asks for prayer. Other than that, we talk things out and mostly decide together. I say mostly because I have the fault of dominating too much, and am working on that! The only thing that saves me with the "'patriarchal order" in the gospel is a strong testimony that its power is so real....So many inspired blessings given and inspired counsel given by priesthood holders that did not abuse their authority. (bishops, stepdad). Other than that, it's pretty bitter for me.

Wow, Lollypop, what an experience! I've not often had experiences like the one you're describing. It's been just a couple of times in my life that I've actually heard (auditory) things from the spirit world. Once when I was very young, and it was from a righteous spirit, and once when I was older, that one was definitely evil. It was horrific.. Another time I felt the adversary so strong, when I was ill and weakened by the illness. I knew I was feeling something evil. I like a lot of what has been written already. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you probably know in your heart what that voice was. It does sound like something an evil spirit would say. I've heard in my head along the same lines myself at various times in my life or got the feeling that someone wanted to hurt me. Trust your instincts and, as was so succinctly said a couple of threads ago, don't let this frighten you but trust in the Spirit. The spirit realm is so real. It took me a long time to figure out that my knowledge of that realm was like a rock skiffing the surface of a very deep body of water, i.e., my knowledge of it was very limited. So, just be careful and always seek the promptings of the Holy Ghost in your life and try to stay far, far away from the evil side of the spiritual realm.... Dove

I've been reading through the posts again.....and I'm beginning to realize why the whole rhetoric of "just do your best" bothers me so much..... I feel relying on the atonement and the Spirit to guide us in our daily choices isn't really being focused on. There are so many scriptures that encourage us to do this. There have been many years in my sojourn in the gospel where I did exactly what is being discussed; what I thought my "best" was, with always the stunning result of falling hard on my butt and failing miserably. This has happened over and over again throughout the years. It has been quite a humbling process. Through it I have learned that it doesn't matter what I think I should be doing, but what the Spirit tells me to do..... Also, it seems there is a lot of our infinite worth and value being tied up in our works here. As I've already quoted from Mosiah, no matter what we do or how hard we work or how much we try, it is never going to be good enough without the atonement and the grace of Jesus Christ..... This leads me to contemplate what our intent is in doing works...Why are we "doing our best" or "making an honest effort?" Is it to prove how "worthy: we are and then have reason to boast of this or condemn/judge others for not being as worthy? Is it to prove our righteousness?? Is it done out of the "have to," "ought to," and "should?" Out of fear and guilt? I mean why is our effort necessary? For me, my effort is necessary to show what it is that I truly want....What I truly desire. I certainly cannot prove anything or gain anything by my works alone. There is a plethora of scripture in the Book of Mormon that highlights this. Only in and through the atonement. It is up to each one of us individually to decide how much we want eternal life and how much we trust in God (i.e. faith/works with sincere intent) in getting there.

Hello, Vort; Thanks for bringing this topic up. The "just do your best" ideology for me is quite grinding....For a few reasons..... One thing that comes to my mind is the first steps of the twelve step program adopted by our church; Step One; Admit that you, of yourself, are powerless to overcome your addictions (you can insert here whatever you want; problems, character weaknesses, faults and failings, etc) and that your life has become unmanageable. Step Two; Come to believe that the power of God can restore you to complete spiritual health. Step Three; Decide to turn your will and your life over to the care of God the Eternal Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.... I also think of Ether 12:27; "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace if sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them." I believe this scripture outlines that yes; we are given weaknesses to humble us. To me this is profound. I chafe at the rhetoric that none of us are meant to be perfect.........that we will never obtain this in this life. I believe that we as a culture often place too much emphasis on our works getting us to heaven rather than through the grace of Christ.....I think of Mosiah 2:21;" I say unto you that if ye should serve Him (Christ), who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another- I say, if ye should serve Him with all you whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants." I believe what keeps us from "perfection" isn't that God has deemed that we can't obtain it in this life (think of the city of Enoch here) so much as our lack of faith and reliance on Him in getting there. This doesn't excuse us from making the effort to keep the commandments; it is just never forgetting that even our ability to make the effort to keep the commandments is a gift of grace and not our own power..... Also, I long ago stopped believing that I, of myself, could determine what my "best" is. I believe that it is up to my desires in seeking the Spirit to show/teach/guide/empower/strengthen me to what God knows my best is. More often than not I have experienced the promptings of the Spirit to be far and above less judgmental, condemning, harsh and condescending than the "arm of flesh," i.e. anyone else here on earth. So much of it hinges on what my true desires are. What is it that I truly want?

P.S. I also thought of the quote in Isaiah in reference to the Savior: "He hath no form nor comeliness, and when we shall see him there is no beauty that we should desire Him. " I believe this is all in reference to His physical appearance; what is more important to me though, is what comes next; "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from him; He was despised and we esteemed Him not. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted." This paragraph gives me a lot of comfort when I feel rejected by others for looks, or any other reason, for that matter.....

Hi, LDS Dude; Thanks for bringing this topic up. It seems you are having a tough time with this, I'm sorry to hear. Yeah, when I grew up, for some reason for the girls in our family especially, we grew up thinking physical beauty was the end all. There can be several reasons; but, that's not what is important at this point. I've come to realize that I'm just average in my looks. I don't consider myself really ugly or stunningly beautiful either. Just average. I consider my mother beautiful though. She emulates such a glow. She is going to be 74 in August and still runs 3-4 times a week (takes care of her health...) and lives the gospel with a vengeance. While I am often told I look the most like her (compliment) I believe she is so beautiful to me because of her chosen lifestyle. Like I said; she just glows! I believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder :-) But to answer your question about how we'll look in the hereafter, I've often wondered if we will be able to choose what physical appearance we will have, if we so desire. I've always wanted naturally curly hair, why not make it so in the eternities? I don't see why we wouldn't have these options (shorter, taller, different nose, body structure, etc.) if this is truly what we would want. I really appreciate the comments earlier, though, on working with what we've been given in this life. There's a lot of beauty in taking care of the precious gift of our physical bodies and our spirit right now. Self confidence also goes along way in being perceived as attractive....

Right~ I haven't found the official statement given by the church about the Savior not being married. I have been trying to find it and so far what I have read supports the link I originally posted....I may have not heard it correctly at the time.....

To answer the original question as to whether or not the Savior was married, it seems to me that the church gave an official statement not too long ago (right around the time the "Davinci Code came out that the Savior was not married. I looked it up somewhat on the internet and here is what I found; Jesus Christ/Was Jesus married - FAIRMormon Hope this helps

Hello, everyone It's been a long time since I've posted on LDS net, so I hope my words will be helpful in this discussion. For me, the best way to do missionary work is by doing all that I can to live true to gospel principals and to emulate, as much as is granted to me, the pure love of Christ. I believe in not forcing my beliefs on others in any way; but, when asked, to be honest about what I do believe. Being an example is so important. Don't forget prayer and faith that when a person is truly searching for the answers our religion can provide, that one is at the ready to be used as God's instrument in pointing the way to that person in finding what they are seeking. To me, this takes an openness in several forms; to the promptings of the Spirit, while not forcing someone to listen, not being ashamed of sharing why being LDS is what we want to be, not being frightened, but loving and focusing on the needs of our brother/sister in that moment. I think some of the most important missionary work that can be done is amongst other members of our church. It is so easy to fall away once in.......people do it all the time. I've heard that the great majority of people in our church are inactive. So sad, because there is greater condemnation in knowing the truth, and falling away, then there is in not knowing at all. I think it is important to always work on emulating Christlike attributes to anyone and everyone; especially other members. Christlike love is so important.... Dove

For me, it still hurts, as it is usually said with such a critical and demeaning attitude. I do feel hurt for all the anti mormon sentiment out there. But, I am learning that part of being true to who I am and my covenants, is not to be ashamed or to to take responsibility for others' attitude or ignorance towards my belief. I personally am so grateful that LDS leaders counsel strongly against criticizing others for their religious belief, or for being critical or demeaning at all. This helps me to always be kind and respectful to others, regardless of who they are or what they believe.

Pornography and sexual ... - Google Books I have continued doing research on pornography and child molestation, and have found this interesting commentary~ It does debunk what I said about pornography causing child molestation. The article quoted several studies, all which found that there really was no causal relationship. I apologize for likely misrepresenting such an important issue. I was going off other older and perhaps misconstrued stats about this subject. Thank you for setting me straight. I feel I hit a raw nerve, as well as several of my own nerves being jangled, having been a victim of this heinous crime myself. I acknowledge that even though this did happen to me (and my resulting hyper-sensitivity, lol), it's very unfair of me to blame others for doing so when this is not the case. I do feel that pornography is very immoral and wrong. As a woman, I have had a lot of male friends who have indulged in this. I believe it very much objectifies a woman and demeans her body. But, again this is my belief. Dove

Hello, Mahone; I've been on the internet to study and see what's what. I found this article here; USATODAY.com - Who are the child molesters among us?, which does seem to support what you are saying rather than what I said. One paragraph in the article reads; The link between child pornography and child molestation is strong. "Not everyone who reads porn acts out, but everyone who acts out does read child pornography," Burton says. This strongly supports what you said in your paragraph....what you said about all people who are legally blind do not drive; but, this does not mean that all people who do not drive are legally blind..... Another article I found here may prove of interest to you; How Pornography Harms Children. One paragraph from this cite states; Pornography's Relationship to Child Molestation In a study of convicted child molesters, 77 percent of those who molested boys and 87 percent of those who molested girls admitted to the habitual use of pornography in the commission of their crimes.iii Besides stimulating the perpetrator, pornography facilitates child molestation in several ways. For example, pedophiles use pornographic photos to demonstrate to their victims what they want them to do. They also use them to arouse a child or to lower a child's inhibitions and communicate to the unsuspecting child that a particular sexual activity is okay: "This person is enjoying it; so will you." Honestly, where I first heard statistics like this was during a council meeting in a restaurant where I worked at. It was there that I found the statistics of the correlation between porn stores and the rise of child molestation......This was many years ago and I have lost the paperwork that cited this. So, I will keep studying. I agree that the facts are important to back up the seriousness of claims like this. Hope these help... Dove

Rochphoto, So sorry for your grief~ My heart goes out to you in this difficult time. It really sounds like you are unhappy in your marriage and confused as to what to do. As has already been posted.....try to follow the Spirit's counsel. You're husband has serious problems. I'm not saying you do not have problems; but, his seem to be quite serious. Give yourself time and space to be alone and in quietness. Maybe some time for scripture study and contemplation. Do what's in the best interest of you and your children. I said "you" first for good reason. From what limited psychology I've had in school, children do not thrive in a poor environment. Please feel free to send me a message if you'd like to talk more.....I truly want what's best for you and your family.... Dove

Hello, twort, Actually, no, they really are not two very separate problems.... I have studied on this topic and yes, as I said, there is a much higher rate of child molesting among people who are addicted to pornography then there are in the general populace....... While there may be people addicted to pornography who are not at risk for molesting children, it seems (IMO) that boundaries are often blurred in sexual sin. Can we agree that pornography is just plain wrong? I don't want to offend you and I don't say things that I don't believe are true and, unless it's my feelings, don't say things that I haven't found to be backed up by evidence. Regardless, hope no hard feelings. The best in your postings.....

Hello, Rochphoto, Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond~the library computers have been quite slow and I haven't been able to get on LDS net easily...... While it's not up to me to tell you what to do concerning your marriage, I do feel I should warn you that statistics show that people who indulge in pornography have a much higher rate of being child molesters. This is a true fact. I am worried for the safety of your children with your husband's addiction and infidelity to you. While I am concerned that you perhaps haven't made the wisest choices in your marriages, I do not agree with the statements that you have been selfish, mistreated the men in your life, or have not truly honored your covenants.......I would suggest that you continue on in therapy though. There are some red flags with two failed marriages....My own husband is not a member of the LDS church, as I am; but, I would not leave him nor dishonor the marital vows I made to him six years ago simply because he is a christian. However, I would definitely leave him if he had the signs you say your husband has; pornography addiction (with the chance he could begin molesting our children, if we had any), infidelity, lack of temple worthiness, etc. The fact that you felt coerced into your marriage is a very shaky, untrue foundation to begin with. Right now, I feel like yelling, "Run Girl, Run, as hard and fast as you can." I know you've already been married. The only thing I would say is to try and learn from these experiences. Don't rush into another marriage. Truly repent of the poor choices you have made in the past, and go from here...... Eventually, hopefully through therapy, you will grow to where you self esteem is strong enough that you can take accountability for your actions, love and forgive yourself through the Savior's grace, and go forward. I strongly believe that nothing is going to be fixed by staying in a verbally abusive/abusive generally marriage where your children are at risk at being deeply scarred by your husband's actions.....

Hey Rochphoto, While I agree with a lot that is being said here, I do feel for you and your predicament.... I married a wonderful man who I wasn't "in love" with, but whom I love dearly and who loves me with all his heart. It truly is a marriage of grace and sweet, true love. If the man you are married to now truly still repulses you, who are we to tell you not to end it? If you really feel you cannot give him your fidelity and commitment, that is being unfair to him, and to yourself. It sounds like he has some serious problems with pornography and immorality. If this is still things he indulges in, this gives you a good reason to reconsider your marriage to him. Is he kind to you? Why does he repulse you so deeply? It sounds like you may have some good causes to feel this way. Maybe you aren't presenting the whole picture to us as to why you dislike him so deeply. Maybe there are valid reasons for you to feel this way.

The sad thing about Hitler's ordinances being done is how many Jewish people it has offended for having been done. I remember talking to one such person~She was quite angry and bitter about it and also all the temple work which we had done for the people who had so cruelly died in the holocaust. Unfortunately, if I heard this correctly, the church was forced to remove many of those names from record because of the outcry of the Jewish descendants over the work having been done for them. I just hope and pray that Hitler's work being done for him will not continue to cause such dissidence between us and the Jewish nation~

Reading this thread reminds me so much of all the dissidence towards the LDS church~I remember going back to Missouri to visit my mom and seeing so many splinter groups from our church.....Then there is so much anti-mormon material and sentiment out there. The adversary is really going strong to divert everyone he can from the truth. I am so grateful to be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints! There is so much sentiment out there against us that I look at it as though we are in the eye of a storm. Weathering this storm and remaining true and faithful to our covenants is key.....It is so easy to be diverted by the static noise of the adversary. I would rather keep my eye on the truths of the gospel; prayer, scripture study, regular church attendance, etc., then on all the ways I can be diverted from doing this.

Hello, Sally; Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us. That you would trust us with your question and experiences surely is an honor~ I really appreciate the gentleness in your thread, too.... I think it's great that you know God lives and wants to direct you...I do know that He loves all of us and wants to help us in any way we will allow Him to. I am LDS, and am so grateful and glad to be so.....Even though by being LDS God has required some very difficult things of me in remaining so. I would only ask that you not give up on investigating the LDS church. I do so because I have felt the Spirit so strongly in being a member of it. It has so many glorious things to offer. I would just ask that you keep going awhile longer before deciding on a different church. Regardless, best of wishes in you journey in finding/doing God's will for you... Dove

Hello, Johnny LIngo; Thank you for starting this thread. This is an important topic to discuss... I apologize. Right now I'm frustrated because I had written several paragraphs already to post and somehow I deleted all of them before I could finish and post them. So, I'll try to recap what I had already written.... I would suggest that you do a scripture search on prayer.....The scriptures are full of instructions on how to pray. One instruction they give is to "pray always," and to always have a prayer in our hearts...To me, this becomes about where our heart is in praying too.....sincere prayer is really important. One question that came to my mind as I read your op and the other posts has more to do with the state of ones' heart than with the logistics of prayer, The question is; How do you view who God Is? For me, I like to view Him as my best Friend.....my Father.....a perfect being who has my best eternal welfare at heart. Someone I can trust implicitly. Because of His perfect knowledge of all things and the unfathomable love He has for me, a whole panorama of subjects I can approach Him about in prayer is only limited by my own limited, fallen and imperfect nature. Because He is my BFF, He is interested in and cares about anything that matters to me to talk to Him about... I believe having a prayer "always in our hearts" is really an advanced state of spirituality and righteousness. It is becoming so in tune to the Holy Spirit that praying and receiving answers to our prayers comes naturally throughout the day. I believe it is a state of being. You mentioned praying for forgiveness. I only feel comfortable praying to be forgiven after I've apologized to Him for the wrongdoing and have asked for help in repenting and have striven to repent.....A scripture comes to mind...Ether 3:2...where the brother of Jared acknowledges how unworthy and fallen He is before God....I remember the verses too, on always acknowledging to God how unworthy and fallen we are. A lot of my gratitude comes from realizing how necessary the atonement and the grace of Christ are in even being able to pray and receive answers to my prayers. Anyway, this is quite a topic! I hope what I've written helps. The best in your journey of prayer... Dove

Hello, MarginofError It's interesting....as I was skimming through some of these posts, the question that came to my mind was, "why am I still going to church?!" After all, for me, church is such an experience in painful feelings of feeling judged/criticized/gossiped about by others. Also, the complacent attitude of "we've got it made, why try for more?" leaves me with emotions of being unfulfilled, restless and bored. It brings me a chuckle to think of the people there actually possessing, and then showing, the pure love of Christ. I've long had my struggles in remaining "active" in the gospel. And, unfortunately, thus far I have lost that battle more often than won it. So, the why of my still going really becomes the question. I go because I know God lives. He has often reassured me of His deep abiding love for me. I believe Him and in Him. I go because He has told me that being a member of this church and the requisite striving to keep the covenants I have made there is what He wants me to do. For me, this has been the most difficult thing I have ever tried to do in my life. In the process of striving to remain active, I've learned some things along the way that I hope will be helpful for others. I'm learning to let go of the expectations I've placed on the people around me to act in a certain way (i.e. kindness, friendliness, love, etc.) so that I will allow myself to feel more comfortable. I'm learning to love and become more comfortable with myself regardless of what other people do around/towards me. Along with this comes reaching out to those who are more open and positively receptive to who I am and what I have to offer. Another thing I am learning is to become more self reliant in developing my spirituality. It's up to me to pray and read the scriptures every day. It's up to me to strive to be blessed with the pure love of Christ so that I can love my enemies and do good to those who despitefully use me and/or persecute me. The more I prepare myself through the week for the dreaded experience of going to church meetings on Sunday, the more likely it is that the experience will come have positive tones to it. At least I will have more of a peace through preparing than not. I am learning that I rely way too much on the arm of flesh, rather than on God's arm, to survive the social climate of church. I'm learning that it is much more about worshiping Him than it is anything else. I hope this helps others who are struggling with the same issues I have.... Dove

Hello, Needing Advice; I read your post thoroughly and skimmed the other responses given to your post. Unfortunately, I believe what I have to say will not agree with what already has been said. The description you gave of your husband has left me feeling frightened and concerned for your safety with him. I would not necessarily discuss your thoughts/feelings/desires about the finances with him, especially if they disagree with his view point. I say this because you have related many things about him that seem very irrational, selfish, and as Tarnished said, down right abusive. I would also hesitate to tell you to try and get counseling from your bishop. While he is your priesthood leader, he too is only human (like your RS pres) and may not have the tools or training to be able to understand, identify and diagnose the seriousness of the situation your are in. I would suggest that you go to and outside source for counsel, like a marriage counselor and a financial counselor. They should be trained to correctly advise you on the situation you are in and how to either handle it, or extricate yourself from it. This doesn't mean not to go to your bishop at all; but, go looking for what he can offer, which is spiritual direction. Maybe a priesthood blessing and honestly letting him know where you are at as far as your activity in the church is concerned. Also, the most important Being you can turn to right now is HF through prayer and scripture study. It seems you know what you want to do, which is becoming active again and paying your tithing. Work towards these ends and you will be blessed. IMHO, I really believe you may seriously want to consider remaining in the marriage you are in. Your husband does sound abusive and manipulative. If you want to try to work it out with him, maybe make couples counseling and an honest talk with your bishop requirements for going forward. Best of wishes in whatever you do. I am concerned and hope you will be okay and that the best will happen. Dove

Hello, Jan; My heart totally goes out to you in your sorrow. I suffer from serious depression/mental illness as well. I totally relate to the feelings you have shared in your post. My first thought is this; Have you considered that your depression is simply a serious mental illness? I believe it isn't about whether or not you are being selfish. You have already expressed that you do exert yourself to serve others. I admire you for being able to do that given how serious your depression is sounding. Have you accepted that you have an illness you will probably have to manage and deal with for the rest of your life? Please seriously consider finding a competent counselor. Whether or not he/she is LDS is not the point at this time, I believe. A good counselor will help you deal with your illness in a positive, healing and uplifting way, regardless of his or her religion. Do you insist that your regular medical doctor is LDS? It should be no different than with a counselor~What's important is that you find someone you can trust and feel comfortable being totally honest with. It took me years and many counselors to finally find one who was ideal. I wasn't able to find one through LDS social services. I had to go through other avenues. But, the search was worth it. I have always been told by medical professionals that the only way to deal with my mental illness it to do both meds and counseling. You are dead on about loving yourself through this. Doing so through the help of the Holy Spirit may be the only way you will survive this. Go easy on yourself, and gently. Strive for the self-honesty needed to become in tune with the emotional issues that only add to the depression you are already experiencing due to your physiology. As hard as it may be (I understand the feelings of being lost and not being close to Heavenly Father), do the best you can to reach out for the Spirit everyday through prayer and scripture study. He will help you survive through this and love you in a way no one else can. There have been a few times I was going to end my life; but, the Spirit powerfully intervened at those times and saved me from doing what I believe would be a terrible mistake. I am so grateful He did. Take Care of Yourself. Thanks so much for reaching out here. I hope what I've said helps. Dove