Midwest LDS

I think you asked a very interesting question @prisonchaplain. I, as many others have already stated, would want my daughter to marry a good, active LDS man in the temple. Too me, interfaith marriage between two people active in their faith is, generally speaking, a bad idea. Can it work? Absolutely and we have some on this site who show that it can. But it adds an extremely complicated argument to your life especially if you have children. I would be morally opposed to raising my children as anything other than LDS. How would an active Catholic or Pentacostal, or Jewish wife feel about that decision? Undoubtedly, they would be upset and it would lead to constant friction in our marriage. Marriage can be difficult enough without adding crises of faith to the equation too. In addition, what if religion isn't important to your spouse? Maybe they don't care where you take the kids on Sunday, but they want to use pornography, or go gambling in Vegas, or go out drinking every weekend. You and your kids will be affected by those attitudes and it will make following Christ that much more difficult. While I would welcome a man who loves my daughter into my family even if he wasn't Mormon, I would be praying for and hoping for his conversion the entire time.

Hi @Blossom76 I would like to say right off the bat I'm glad you and your husband have a great relationship! Per your original question, while there are several biblical scriptures I could reference, some have been mentioned others haven't (1 Peter 3 :18-20 talks about the spirit world for example), the problem is you can't prove our religion is true, or any Christian church for that matter, strictly by an appeal to the Bible. Interpretations of scripture vary so widely, and you can find arguments against every position by some very learned men. How do you know which one is correct? I'll share a personal experience that I feel is relevant to this discussion. When I was a missionary, a gentleman invited me into his home, for the hidden purpose of bashing with me. He refused to call me Elder and explained why by sharing a scripture with me, 1 Timothy 3, that in his version of the Bible explained that an Elder needed to be the husband of one wife. I was not married, so his argument was that I did not rightfully hold the title of Elder. I flipped open my version, the King James, and showed him that in my Bible those verses say Bishop not Elder. As he refused to accept my interpretation, I explained that he was proving my point. Our understanding of those simple verses differed so widely, to say nothing of more complicated doctrines, as to destroy all hope of deciding if I was right or wrong by an appeal to the Bible. The only way to know if I was right or wrong was and is to read the Book of Mormon and to ask God if it's true. When you receive a witness of it's truthfullness, it resovles problems with interpretation by letting you know that there is someone with authority to speak in the name of God on Earth again. Because I have received a witness of the truthfullness of the Book of Mormon, I know that Joseph Smith spoke with God's direct authority when he received revelation about the number of heavens. Today we have men that speak with God's direct authority when discussing issues of doctrine. You can't find that knowledge through Biblical discussion alone, you have to find it directly from God. Unless and until you (generic you) read the Book of Mormon and receive that spiritual knowledge that only God can give, no scriptural argument alone will convince you. (FYI I think it's great you and your husband have regular scripture study☺).

Sounds good @prisonchaplain. Actually it's nice to be included in a discussion about Christian faith groups rather than scary cults to be avoided☺. As long as you emphasize our belief in and love of Our Savior it sounds like a great presentation. Plus I agree with @Sunday21. Funeral potatoes are actually good unlike weird jello concoctions.

Yeah Blackguards can be fun, especially if they have certain lines they don't cross and you play them as a little bit of an Anti-Villian. But, my very favorite character is a heroic paladin. I like being the guy who rides in on his horse, puts down a dragon with extreme prejudice, and rescues the townsfolk.

Agreed. While I usually play Lawful or Chaotic Good characters I can play just about anything except Chaotic Evil. To me, Chaotic Evil is just to much of an anarchic crazy psychopath to work in a party just from a roleplaying perspective. The only evil I usually will play is Lawful Evil. I do have a soft spot for the villian with his own twisted code.

Me too. I tend to play human paladins or clerics as it fits my playing style, but I'll play any class the party needs. I do prefer the more physical classes (I like glowing, powerful weapons).

It was pretty dang fun @Jane_Doe. They really didn't know what hit them.

Absolutely @MormonGator we can always use another player☺.

I love D and D. I'm the dungeon master for my group right now and I almost destroyed my players with a town full of doppelgangers. Good times.

Lol I'll keep that in mind. Maybe the Lord will come in the next twenty years and I can be twinkled before I get too gray haired?.

Oh I'm not defending every member of the medical profession @JohnsonJones. The word quack exists for a reason. But if I'm deciding whether or not to, say get a vaccine or go on a particular kind of diet or look for solutions to my chronic medical problems, I'm going to put a whole lot more trust in the guys and gals who attended medical school and put in decades of their own experience working with patients over someone who looks pretty on camera or totally read an article on the internet once.

Best of luck to her. Why people look to celebrities for medical advice rather than doctors is a mystery whose solution has long eluded me.

Agreed @zil. The penalty for homosexual behavior is still the same. The church has not cut back on the consequences of sin. Rather, they teach that you can come to church and be whole even while you are struggling with same sex attraction. The Lord has found a way to bring back souls who thought they were lost because of their attraction. Instead the Lord has once again reached out his Holy Arm and brought salvation back into their lives. Some can be healed of their same sex attraction. I've read about and seen it happen. But for many, the Lord does not take away the affliction, but offers a way to strengthen them in it. Just as Alma and his people were strengthened to bear up their burdens, or Paul was strengthened to uphold his apostleship despite whatever his "thorn in the flesh" was. I've met people who have not been healed of their attraction, but have been strengthened and resist the temptation to give in to their desires. They will be blessed in the next life for staying true to the Lord despite their inclinations and I trust the Lord's servants will not lead his church astray while they are rescuing His sheep.

I would argue the church hasn't changed that much though. Look at this quote from President Uchtdorf in the April Conference this year. "Does this mean that God condones or overlooks behaviors that run contrary to His commands? No, definitely not! But He wants to change more than just our behaviors. He wants to change our very natures. He wants to change our hearts. He wants us to reach out and take firm hold of the iron rod, confront our fears, and bravely step forward and upward along the strait and narrow path. He wants this for us because He loves us and because this is the way to happiness" He is saying the same thing Elder Holland said in 1980. You need to come to Christ and when you do he can and will change you as you strive to follow his commandments. The church hasn't changed its teachings. There is a softening in tone to reach out to those mired in sin and let them know they are welcome as they strive to change. But they are still told to change. Here is President Uchtdorf again from the April 2016 GC "We call these steps of faith obedience. That is not a popular word these days. But obedience is a cherished concept in the gospel of Jesus Christ because we know that “through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” So I would argue that the church, while it changes as the GA'S receive more revelation, has not changed in it's core message of obedience, repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ. I used a few quotes from President Uchtdorf, but I could post hundreds of them from the last ten years from all the GA's that teach just as strongly as anything in the 1980's. This is still, and will always be Christ's Church.

I read the article, and overall it doesn't sound bad on the surface. I feel like what the author is trying too say is we could be more welcoming of people who are struggling. That's true, Our Savior invites all men everywhere to come to him and be changed. But for me, these general condemnations of us not being welcoming enough just aren't a real problem. In my ward, when anybody comes to church we are excited. It's a giant first step towards change and we love to have them there! I feel like the author is pushing an agenda of not condemning sin as sin though in order for people not to feel uncomfortable and I have to disagree with that philosophy. The Lord teaches us that since he loves us he chastens us. We need to feel uncomfortable with our lifestyle in order to be motivated to change. So yes we should be welcoming to everyone who comes in our door. But I love what Elder Holland teaches in a decotional at BYU from 1980. "If there is one lament I cannot abide, it is the poor, pitiful, withered cry, “Well, that’s just the way I am.” If you want to talk about discouraging attitudes, that is one that discourages me. Please spare me your speeches about “That’s just the way I am.” I’ve heard that from too many people who wanted to sin and call it psychology. And I use the word sin to cover a vast range of habits which bring discouragement and doubt and despair. You can change anything you want to change and you can do it very fast. It is another Satanic falsehood to believe that it takes years and years and eons of eternity to repent. It takes exactly as long to repent as it takes you to say “I’ll change”—and mean it. Of course there will be problems to work out and restitutions to make. You may well spend—indeed, you had better spend—the rest of your life proving your repentance by its permanence. But change, growth, renewal, and repentance can come for you as instantaneously as it did for Alma and the Sons of Mosiah" This life is all about changing for the better through the grace of Jeaus Christ. Yes come with your sins, but plan to change as Christ saves you from those sins.

I think it just depends on the ward. My ward does talk about specific sins from time to time as well as general Gospel topics. While the lessons are standardized there is always flexibility in what topics are chosen for sacrament talks and what teachers choose to emphasize in lessons. On a side note you can call it your ward. The ward covers ever non member as well as member living in that location, and it's the ward you would attend if you decided to be baptized so it's your ward.

I've always felt that the entirety of the Gospel is centred around Jesus Christ and his grace and the hardest commandment enduring to the end. We are saved solely by the grace of Christ. 2 Nephi 25:23 "for we know that it is by grace we are saved" followed by an important comma "after all that we can do." I often see members make the mistake of feeling like they have to earn their salvation by doing a certain number of good deeds. And when we've done that certain number, Our Savior puts in a little at the top and then we are saved. That's not what the scripture means. We are saved wholly by the Grace of Jesus Christ. But how do we access that gift? What does all we can do mean? Heavenly Father explains the blessings of enduring to the end himself in 2 Nephi 31:15, one of the few instances in scripture where the Father himself speaks "And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." Elder Holland was expounding on how we endure to the end. We don't quit. We exercise faith in Jesus Christ and we keep trying to follow his commandments no matter how many times we fall. If it's the thousandth time we've fallen than we get back up, drag ourselves to church and try again. Because if we do Christ will save us! That's what he means by a free gift. He doesn't mean it will be given to us just for sitting here. He means it will be given to us even though we don't deserve it, because we didn't quit. If we have some sin we haven't overcome yet, even if it's been thirty years, then we keep trying to overcome it. That's the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We will be saved even though we never got close to perfecting ourselves. But we didn't quit, we didn't throw in the towel, we trusted Christ could save us even though we kept falling down, and so Christ saves us as he promised he would. That is a wonderful promise and should ease anyone's mind who is struggling to be better.

I trully am sorry you are dealing with this @MadMaddy. Please don't blame yourself for any of your husband's actions. You are not too blame, and honestly I applaud your dedication to your marriage. We should all be so blessed to have somone fighting so hard for us. My advice to you is this. Pornography is a serious addiciton, that is used to fight uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings. Rather than finding healthy ways to fight these feelings (bad memories, boredom, loneliness, pain etc.) an addict uses porn. It's horrible. When you are truly addicted, it's like watching your life running on autopilot. You scream at yourself to stop and you don't. You remember all of the pain and hurt caused by doing it previously and it just doesn't matter. You are trapped. Fortunately there is a way out. Sometimes it takes a long time, but the Savior can take these things away and restore your control. You mentioned your husband had been doing well for a while when this started again. What changed? Why did he stop using the healthy mechanisms he set in place to protect himself? I know something I failed in on my own path to freedom was constantly taking away my safety devices once I felt like I was fine. This invariably led to me being an idiot again. Now I know that I'll never be able to trust myself alone on the internet again. That's not a bad thing! I had to let go of my pride, and accept that unlike many adults I can't be on the internet without backup. That means even though it's been sometime since I've had any problems, all of my devices, including my phone, will have reporting software until the day I die. I don't care if I'm 95 and haven't had any problems in 60 years, my internet devices will report everything that I'm viewing directly to my wife. Your husband has to come to the same realization. He will always need to protect himself in this area of his life. He can be healed, but one way Christ makes a man stronger is by showing him his weaknesses and how he can protect himself there. Christ saved me. He can save your husband too, but he has to fight! He can't say "oh well I have my phone all the time theres nothing I can do." There is something he can do! Real time reporting software works for me. There is something, I promise, out there that will work for him. Christ told us he has the power to save all men that turn to him. If Christ saved a proud, stubborn man like me he can save your husband too. But he has to want it. Sorry for the length of my post but I truly feel for you sister.

First of all congrats on avoiding major sins. That's a really awesome accomplishment that you shouldn't sell yourself short on. I agree with @zil and @anatess2 and I think you should follow their suggestions, but speaking as someone who had to repent of a major sin don't! It isn't fun, it isn't pretty, and you can cause lifelong consequences to yourself even after you repent. When Alma tells his son Corianton that wickedness never was happiness in Alma 41:14 he is deadly serious. Imagine carrying around a crushing weight of guilt and pain every single second of the day, breaking your families' hearts, and struggling daily for the rest of your life not to fall back into your previous choices. That is what being guilty of major sin feels like. So take it from a brother who knows what that feels like sister and the next time you feel that strong urging to be bad, tell Satan to go back to Hell and leave you alone because that's where that thoughts coming from.

I'm sorry this has been a tough trial for you @key but it sounds like you are following your Bishop's counsel which is great! Since you only have 9 weeks until the wedding, and since you want to stay firm, set up some basic rules to keep you and your fiance safe. First of all, don't be completely alone with each other. It may be tough, since you may be used to it, but don't. There is only so much temptation we can resist if we are exposing ourselves directly to it. A recently recovering alcoholic shouldn't spend his time in a bar, and since you guys have already messed up a lot in regards to the Law of Chastity don't subject yourselves to strong temptation. Second, keep following your Bishop's counsel. It sounds simple, but so many get knocked down because they give themselves reasons why they they are special and don't have to follow restrictions set up by their priesthood leaders and this always ends in grief. Finally, be happy☺. You are trying to follow Jesus Christ and he promises in Ether 12:27 "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them." Put your trust in our Savior, keep yourselves safe, and have a great wedding!

This kind of thing is always hard until it becomes a habit. I tend to say my morning prayer when I'm walking my dog. I'm a little clearer headed than when I first wake up, and it makes my prayers more meaningful. I also find it helpful to say my evening prayer before I let myself climb into bed. I read my scriptures in the morning so I don't forget to do them later. Making it a habit requires having a specific time set into your schedule that works for you. Something easy to remember like every day right after dinner or right when you get home from work.

Your very first step is to get married as soon as possible. That will stop you from breaking the law of chastity the way you have been, and give you some needed space to repent. Follow your Bishop's council, and submit to all things he asks you to do. Work on your personal relationship with our Savior Jesus Christ, and learn to truly include him in your daily life. If you do these things you can repent, be washed clean, and be worthy to enter the Temple.

Yep I'm fairly certain the 12 apostles are against sin, but don't quote me on that @NightSG?

The only difference I find with past statements on the subject by earlier prophets is that those who struggle with same sex attraction may not be able to overcome those feelings in this life. To me, I feel like the church is demonstrating that Same Gender attraction is related to Paul's thorn in the flesh from 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. Just because you have a burden that is not removed doesn't mean you can't be strengthened by the Lord to bear up that burden. To me the Church has been clear about that and I feel like He has extended His arm of mercy to our brothers and sisters who struggle with SSA. He is telling them through our leaders that they can be forgiven and they can lead lives in obedience to the Lord's commandments even if he doesn't remove the burden of SSA from them. To me that's a message of hope and tells me that we are led by continuing revelation as the Lord adds line upon line and precept upon precept to our understanding.

Ok we do have a disagreement here. I feel like our leaders have been exceedingly clear both about sin and it's consequences, and how we can avoid falling into sin. Let me give you some recent examples. Elder Lawrence of the Seventy said in his article "The war goes on" that Same Sex marriage is a counterfeit from Satan and will not bring exaltation. Here's the link, it's from the April 2017 Ensign https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/04/the-war-goes-on?lang=eng. Let's find some other examples. Elder Anderson from his April 2014 Conference talk entitled "Spirtual Whirlwinds" talks about a young girl who courageously defended the Lord's standards of marriage against even fellow church members. He talks abput the evils of same sex marriage, while encouraging those who struggle with same gender attraction that they can remain clean by living the Lord's Commandments. And of course Elder Oaks spoke about this subject during this last Conference when refrencing the Family Proclamation as you mentioned earlier. I don't have time to go through all the references I found but I found these 3 examples with just a google search.